A look at the Hawksworths

[The Stationmaster]

Mike - Hawksworths were 64' x 8'11" (9'3" over handles), so I see no reason why they not eligible for the North Cornwall, but I guess my point was, as indicated by others, I've never seen any pics of (G)WR vehicles on the 'withered arm' bit of the line, i.e. with the exception of the odd interloper from Bodmin on the Wadebridge-Padstow section, so I look forward to Adam's picture references. (Edit: have just seen Adam's latest - thankyou!) Nice to hear that foreign BGs were seen at Padstow though, but I guess they must have been uncommon. BGs of any provenance were very rare on branch lines.

 

 

 

Pre-war the general restriction on GWR stock working onto ex L&SWR lines was that vehicles up to 60ft long x 9ft wide were accepted without restriction, there seems to have been no other listed restrictions or authorities for larger vehicles which suggests they were not permitted as there are very extensive lists for the other Companies.

 

Somewhat to me surprise I can't find any post-war amendment to this, and certainly no amendment prior to 1960 offering a relaxation for larger vehicles on ex L&SWR lines. This is not absolute confirmation that no such amendment was ever issued but my amendments for that period are as near complete as any so possibly something was issued by letter within the West of England (although I do have copies of a couple of letters - one of which seems fairly certain to refer to a Hawksworth coach, and its unintended interface with some token apparatus).

[Ceptic]

This'll do for me....

 

http://gallery62603..../p31801937.html

 

And a Full Brake... and a Brake Composite....aand a BSK......aaand a CK....

 

Coming from a out 'n out Southern fan(atic), I found this addmission, suprisingly, easy to put into print.

 

Wha's wrong with me ??

[Miss Prism]

and its unintended interface with some token apparatus

What a marvellous euphemism!

[craigwelsh]

On the curtains matter, 3rd class compartments on Hawksworths were fitted with them, but I feel Hornby has greatly exaggerated their prominence, both in the 3rd and 1st class compartments. The official drawings do show a Hornby-ish shape, but the drawings were done to show how the curtains worked, and are not representative of how most were 'drawn'/'hung' in normal everyday working.

They look exactly like the curtains in the Stanier coaches which have proved a nightmare for me to remove as I want to use some as replacement glazing for some glue impacted examples.

 

The window bar will probably be painted on too which is a pity .

[Miss Prism]

Hornby's curtains look crazier the more I look at them. And where did they get that curtain colour from? Weren't curtains generally matched to the colour of the class upholstery?

[The Stationmaster]

Going back to route restrictions, or not, I have now done a bit more delving and found a 1937 amendment which is helpful. It refers to 'New coaches constructed to modified dimensions for cross-country working...' and states 'The vehicles are distinguished by a small YELLOW disc placed on the ends near the tonnage figures and they are interchangeable with the other companies as shown below:-...'

 

L&NE Accept generally over main lines.

 

LM&S Can work generally (but then adds a long list of where they can't go - if there are any specific queries I'll answer them but basically if the loading gauge was a bit tight they were barred).

 

SR Accept generally except between:-

Tonbridge and Battle

Gipsy Hill and Crystal Place Low Level (restriction deleted May 1950)

Charlton and Plumstead

Dartford and Strood

Canterbury West and Whitstable Harbour.

 

This Instruction had not been altered (exceppt re Crystal Palace LL) by 1960 - at which point my original source information runs dry on this topic.

 

PS Dunno about the curtains - Hornby's look to me more like a Skaledale cottage than coaching stock .

[2ManySpams]

This'll do for me....

 

http://gallery62603..../p31801937.html

 

And a Full Brake... and a Brake Composite....aand a BSK......aaand a CK....

 

Coming from a out 'n out Southern fan(atic), I found this addmission, suprisingly, easy to put into print.

 

Wha's wrong with me ??

confused.... only one coach in the photo you've linked... where are the other 3?

[Ceptic]

confused.... only one coach in the photo you've linked... where are the other 3?

 

 

In the Hornby catalogue

[talyllyn1]

Hornby's curtains look crazier the more I look at them. And where did they get that curtain colour from? Weren't curtains generally matched to the colour of the class upholstery?

 

I've seen a colour photo in taken in the early '60s of a Hawksworth corridor second with very pale yellow curtains. Another shot shows a Collett "Sunshine" vehicle with similar colour curtains. I've always assumed 1st class curtains would have been blue, but not been able to confirm this. The compartments on Hawksworths which have a seperate door appear from photos not to have curtains - roller blinds, perhaps?

[chrisf]

From memory (I don't have access to my books at present) there were three of these, numbered in the W78xx series. They were initially painted light DMU green but later at least one was painted dark green (with droplights 'borrowed' from a maroon vehicle!) although it still ran in a light green DMU formation!

They were used to expand the Gloucester 3-car cross-country sets (Class 119) used on the fast Paddington-Oxford service to four cars and they provided compartment accommodation which wasn't normal in DMUs.

I seem to recall posting a colour picture on the old RMweb site.

CHRIS LEIGH

 

 

7804, 7813 and 7254. They were converted in 1961 and painted dark green. 7804 appeared before this puzzled 13 year old spotter at Paddington on the first day of the winter 1961-62 timetable marshalled in a Bristol-based 119 set in, of course, almost-but-not-quite-malachite green. The working was 8.15 am Frome - Paddington, 1.18 pm Paddington - Oxford, 3.45 pm Oxford - Paddington and 6.5 pm Paddington - Westbury.

 

Chris

 

Afterthought: anyone wanting a choc-cream example may like to know that three BCKs were converted to slip coaches in 1958 and painted in that livery. Slip working of course ceased in 1960 so the "new" slip coaches were redeployed to branch line work. On the face of it, says he without a detailed examination of the model, the conversion doesn't look too difficult if anyone fancies it!

[craigwelsh]

Bill Bedford did the slip coach end as I have one somewhere..

[dibber25]

They were converted in 1961 and painted dark green.

 

At least one was 'light green' - the early DMU greeen - to match the Gloucester Cross-Country sets, although I also remember one in the later 'dark' DMU green, presumably intended to match a repainted DMU in 'dark green' with yellow warning panel. Unfortunately it appeared in a light green set! It shows up very well in some of Mike Mensing's black & white photos.

I shall certainly attempt a slip coach conversion as soon as I can get my hands on a BCK. However, I have already suggested to Simon that Hornby does this version - so maybe next year??.... Now imagine it with a DCC-operated coupling so that it could actually be slipped. What? Bring 'play value' back into model railways? Surely not.....

CHRIS LEIGH

[naugytrax]

a shot of a 22 crossing the girder bridge near Padstow

There's a picture like this in "The WR Diesel-Hydraulics", Hugh Dady, Ian Allan 1989. On page 9 we see "D6530 crossing Little Petherick creek" on 25 July 1964. The leading coach is a green Maunsell type, and the next one is dirty maroon. It could be a Collett type, but Dady says they're all Maunsells. Is this the picture referenced above?

[Pennine MC]

There's a picture like this in "The WR Diesel-Hydraulics", Hugh Dady, Ian Allan 1989. On page 9 we see "D6530 crossing Little Petherick creek" on 25 July 1964. The leading coach is a green Maunsell type, and the next one is dirty maroon. It could be a Collett type, but Dady says they're all Maunsells. Is this the picture referenced above?

 

I think it's a Collett 'Sunshine', as per Bachmann model; when thinking about caption errors like this, I sometimes wonder if the authors are working off small transparency or negatives - the difference in shade is there if you look for it, but could be overlooked

[dibber25]

Authors are usually working off 35mm transparencies (slides) and they're usually looking at them through a small magnifier or a 'linen tester'. It's very easy to make mistakes under those circumstances. I know, I've made a few. It isn't practical to use screens and projectors while you're working - indeed the slides might even be unmounted, as they would have to be later for scanning, and therefore couldn't be projected.

CHRIS LEIGH

[Pennine MC]

Thanks Chris, I thought that might be the case

[neal]

Looks like these have landed - were these on the Sept release list?!

 

http://railsofsheffield.com/br-hawksworth-post-1953-corridor-third-r4410-JJJA15255.aspx

 

N

[Garry D100]

Had a tweet earlier from Model Rail to say they are now arriving with retailers.

Looking at the Rails picture http://railsofsheffield.com/br-hawksworth-post-1953-corridor-third-r4410-JJJA15255.aspx its had a whack on the corridor end.

Good to see QC is alive and well lol

 

 

[Fat Controller]

Had a tweet earlier from Model Rail to say they are now arriving with retailers.

Looking at the Rails picture http://railsofsheffield.com/br-hawksworth-post-1953-corridor-third-r4410-JJJA15255.aspx its had a whack on the corridor end.

Good to see QC is alive and well lol

Just had an E-mail from Hattons to say they're in.

[Garry D100]

Not sure about those printed curtains though

[craigwelsh]

Not sure about those printed curtains though

Certainly a nightmare to remove off the LMS coaches! I'm trying to replace some glue stained windows on my BR ones with some from the cheap LMS 1sts..

 

Corridor connectors are massively overlength anyway as they are longer than the buffers! Look to be similar to the extended LMS ones from that picture as they were all warped in the packets I got.

 

Rails are only listing the corridor 3rd in at the moment. I'll be getting just a brake 3rd and a full brake for now I think.

[Garry D100]

Rails are only listing the corridor 3rd in at the moment.

 

Hattons are too, must be the only one that has arrived so far.

And on ebay so seem to be coming through quickly.

[The Stationmaster]

When I spoke to Simon Kohler at the Kernow exhibition last Saturday he said that all versions 'are on their way and should be here very soon' (as will the 28XX, he said). Looks like September is going to be an expensive month for me as I have one of each version of the Hawksworths on order ......

[gwrrob]

So much for the bit about 'Customers also bought'........ the rest of the Hawksworth range. B)

 

It should read 'customers also ordered' I think !

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... here very soon' .. the 28XX, ...

Fine as it will be to acquire a Hawksworth BG to occasionaly put in a parcels train, I am so much looking forward to seeing this model of Mr Churchward's most handsome design. Two pre-group design RTR 2-8-0 introductions in a year, this is an ambrosial feast.