robertcwp Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 An option I've used is the MJT working corridor connectors. The retracted and boarded Stanier gangways are fine, but the extended replacements that came with the later runs of the coaches tend to be pre-warped and seem to have shrunk duing cooling - I find they need modification to fit the coaches. Adrian For the Staniers, I found the replacement long gangways were a kind of stretch fit but all mine went in OK with a bit of encouragement and without the need for any glue. Keep the short gangways as if you cut off the lugs you can glue them to the end of a Hawksworth if you need a retracted gangway. I have found the gangways on the Hawksworths are glued on but will come off without too much difficulty with the aid of a sharp knife. I put ex-Stanier gangways on both ends of my Hawksworth crimson/cream BG as I needed the gangway ends to be behind the buffers for fitting Sprat & Winkle couplings. I gave the vehicle a test today and it was fine. Also, the Hornby tension lock couplings are too long. I use tension locks within rakes and am not going to modify over 400 coaches of lots of makes, so am stuck with them. I found that a straight Bachmann coupling fits and reduces the gap between vehicles as the Bachmann ones have shorter hooks. I tried this on a Hawksworth SK today. The Bachmann couplings I used were spares and had the number 2 on them. They come in various sizes I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Also, the Hornby tension lock couplings are too long. I use tension locks within rakes and am not going to modify over 400 coaches of lots of makes, so am stuck with them. If couplings are in the NEM sockets, they could be replaced with a Hornby-Roco couplings, or to shorten the gap even further a Hornby-Roco coupling coupled to a Roco coupling on the adjacent coach. These couplings will uncouple over ramps too, but the great thing about them is the coupling is 'solid' and, with no slack to be taken up, the whole trains sets off together. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 If couplings are in the NEM sockets, they could be replaced with a Hornby-Roco couplings, or to shorten the gap even further a Hornby-Roco coupling coupled to a Roco coupling on the adjacent coach. These couplings will uncouple over ramps too, but the great thing about them is the coupling is 'solid' and, with no slack to be taken up, the whole trains sets off together. That's fine if all your other stock has those couplings or if you run fixed rakes. However, the Hawksworth coaches will be mixed with various others and my standard is tension lock within rakes and likely to remain so unfortunately. Bit like being stuck with 00. I have used the Roco ones on the Maunsell set as that is a fixed set, and they work well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I find putting the coaches back together again is the harder part, the body is a tight fit on the chassis at the ends and you can easily break the solebars where the bogie pivots. I need to take all of the door handles etc off mine now to apply some t-cut to try and breathe some life into the maroon finish. Possibly rub down the roof a bit too to take the over the top riveting down a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I find putting the coaches back together again is the harder part, the body is a tight fit on the chassis at the ends and you can easily break the solebars where the bogie pivots. I need to take all of the door handles etc off mine now to apply some t-cut to try and breathe some life into the maroon finish. Possibly rub down the roof a bit too to take the over the top riveting down a bit. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd be interested to hear how you get on with T-cutting your Hawksworths Craig, please let us know if it does the trick or not. I picked up a couple of Bachmann Mk1s this morning which I'm tempted to have a go at, before doing any other work on them (roof ribs, renumbering etc). Nidge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Just in case it is of interest, this shot was taken of a late afternoon parcels passing Abergele at speed on 21st June 1977, and shows.... S1320 Southern Railway van built in 1939 W299 Great Western design Full Brake built in 1951 M----- LMS 50' Full Brake built in 1940 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted January 5, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2011 Just in case it is of interest, this shot was taken of a late afternoon parcels passing Abergele at speed on 21st June 1977, and shows.... S1320 Southern Railway van built in 1939 W299 Great Western design Full Brake built in 1951 M----- LMS 50' Full Brake built in 1940 Cheers Larry - that's a nice mix of stock and perfect justification for a mix and match approach for those of us who are partial to a bit of NPCCS... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted January 5, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2011 I've been playing around with some Centenary coaches recently and it's surprising how well Airfix were able to achieve close-coupling with these models, thirty-odd years ago. They were obviously designed to cope with train set curves but the corridor connections sit pleasingly close to each other and there's no faffing around with over-complicated drawbar mechanisms that don't work very well anyway. In terms of detail and the representation of a range of vehicle types the Hawksworths are clearly superior, and I'm very pleased with my set of three, but it's perplexing to see how little progress has been made with the couplings. Actually I'd say it's the opposite of progress - something that was simple and effective has been replaced with something complicated that doesn't work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Actually I'd say it's the opposite of progress - something that was simple and effective has been replaced with something complicated that doesn't work. I can only agree with you there Barry. And it must push up the price of coaches too. I've already had to fit couplings directly to the bogies on some of the Hornby Gresley coaches and they work just as well. Same with the bogies themselves......On the one hand Hornby is pandering to the scale modeller with fine detail that falls off while on the other they are pandering to the toy market that uses sharp curves. Over-engineering over sensible compromise.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 no faffing around with over-complicated drawbar mechanisms that don't work very well anyway. To be fair, tension lock couplings really don't work well with close-coupling mechanisms. Replace them with something a little less sloppy (Kadees or Roco for instance) and suddenly you get the performance you're meant to. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penrhos1920 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Just in case it is of interest, this shot was taken of a late afternoon parcels passing Abergele at speed on 21st June 1977, and shows.... S1320 Southern Railway van built in 1939 W299 Great Western design Full Brake built in 1951 M----- LMS 50' Full Brake built in 1940 It looks as the Hawksworth has had its gangways removed? Wasn't it also the first to be withdrawn despite being young than the others? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 It looks as the Hawksworth has had its gangways removed? A hard one this. I've brightened the picture on my PC and still don't know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmatix Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Actually I'd say it's the opposite of progress - something that was simple and effective has been replaced with something complicated that doesn't work. Funny how close-coupling has worked perfectly well on continental H0 models for thirty years, and yet British 00 manufacturers still can't get the hang of it (with a couple of exceptions). Incidentally, I have found that the corridor connectors from my old Airfix centenary coaches work fairly well on my Hornby Hawksworths. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I have at last been putting my Hornby Hawksworth coaches into service on my layout. I found it was not difficult to cut back the gangways so they were behind the buffers where I was fitting Sprat & Winkle couplings. I did this by removing the gangways and cutting off the back. The gangway faceplate keeps the gangway in shape. I found virtually every wheelset to have sub-standard back-to-backs. Not by much, but they didn't fit my 14.5 mm gauge so all needed adjusting. Where tension locks were retained I substituted spare Bachmann ones of similar size but with shorter hooks, which closes up the gap between vehicles. I found several were very prone to derailing, which appeared to be because the coupling mechanisms caught on the bogies. This seemed to arise mainly when coming off of a curve. A small amount of oil on the mechanism seemed to help. I have not yet tackled the curtains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Apologies if this picture has been mentioned before but I do not have time at the moment to trawl the whole Forum for evidence. Sincerely, 36E (ex 83D) A search of this thread using the word Motorail (no need to search the whole forum) found these two posts, and took me a fraction of the time your post would have taken to type out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Funny how close-coupling has worked perfectly well on continental H0 models for thirty years, and yet British 00 manufacturers still can't get the hang of it (with a couple of exceptions). Incidentally, I have found that the corridor connectors from my old Airfix centenary coaches work fairly well on my Hornby Hawksworths. By far the biggest problem is the fact that the UK manufacturers have struggled to mount the gear at a consistent height. I'd echo previous observations about the continental stock. Given consistent mount height and a decent coupling, these systems can and do work beautifully. Larry's photo is great too. It's like he's photographed some of his models and reproduced them in black and white! B) Dave. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 It's like he's photographed some of his models and reproduced them in black and white! B) Sorry about that Max S. Here they are in true color....... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Ah, it's a special from RAF Valley! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 ... tension lock couplings really don't work well with close-coupling mechanisms ... I would go further than that. The tension lock coupling is basically not suitable for use with these mechanisms. Use one of the HO couplers that form a rigid bar, and the performance is obtained. Neither Bach nor Hornby seem to understand the performance potential, since neither sells a suitable pattern coupler for their own stock which enables the gangway endplates to be in contact on straight track. For those who have doubts about the worth of these mechanisms, use the Roco 40270 on Hornby, Hornby's R8220 on Bachmann. (Sprung buffers on Hornby coaches need to be retracted, and one or both covers taken off gangway ends where present. ) A little adjustment to precise longitudinal coupler position is often necessary to deal with small manufacturing variances in the mechanisms. If the gangway faceplate is not vertical this needs correction too. Lubrication with a little powdered graphite on the faceplates helps smoothness, especially when propelling. In other words, expect to have to set up this system for best performance. Now admire the appearance of continuous gangways on straight track, and the way the train moves as a single unit, no slopping about between vehicles. If a slip of black paper is glued inside one gangway, extanding into the space in the other gangway, that will act as a light barrier to conceal the small gap that opens out for curves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Well thank you. I stand chastised. No intention to chastise particularly, I suppose it's up to you if you want to ignore freely given advice and use your time ineffectively Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Line drawn? Oh, I should think so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
taybridge Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Mmmmm, from my kitchen workbench (for those who haven't seen my layout topic for a while) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
taybridge Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Update on my full brake in blue... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted March 8, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2011 It looks like the second batch of Hawksworths - the A versions in the Hornby 2011 catalogue - are starting to arrive. Hattons and no doubt others have the Composite in both Blood and Custard and Maroon in stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LHP Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Those rubber gangways are the shape they are probably due to inferior rubber being used. They will almost certainly become brittle and damage way too soon. This is a problem that has been around for years and affected some USA models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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