Bachmann 009 Double Fairlie

[rynd2it]

Get it with factory sounds, you won't regret it 🙂

[MrTea]

On 19/10/2022 at 13:59, rynd2it said:

Get it with factory sounds, you won't regret it 🙂

This is an absolute steal at the moment:

https://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk/oo9/Bachmann-narrow-gauge-391-102sf-ffestiniog-railway-double-fairlie-earl-of-merioneth-fr-lined-green/
 

I’d be melting my credit card if I didn’t already have one!

[rynd2it]

On 24/10/2022 at 11:31, MrTea said:

This is an absolute steal at the moment:

https://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk/oo9/Bachmann-narrow-gauge-391-102sf-ffestiniog-railway-double-fairlie-earl-of-merioneth-fr-lined-green/
 

I’d be melting my credit card if I didn’t already have one!

I just melted mine 😃  and I do already have one (the maroon one). I could not resist this, such a great model and I had to buy a couple of green livery coaches as well!

[CotBob]

My Livingston Thompson has developed some odd behaviour running on DCC at a constant regulator setting it behaves as the video link below

 

 

This behaviour is the same regardless of the regulator position it will speed up and then act as if the regulator was shut and opened again.  The speed sometimes stays at the set level for a little longer but still slows and accelerates again.  I hope that there is some setting in the CV values that needs tweaking but I don't know what.  I have run it against a stop so as to rule out track issues as slipping it should always be under power and not slow.  Can someone please help?

[didcot]

Perhaps a decoder reset or a call to Bachmann is required. Not seen it on my two with sound. Sorry can't be more helpful. 

[rynd2it]

19 hours ago, CotBob said:

My Livingston Thompson has developed some odd behaviour running on DCC at a constant regulator setting it behaves as the video link below

 

 

This behaviour is the same regardless of the regulator position it will speed up and then act as if the regulator was shut and opened again.  The speed sometimes stays at the set level for a little longer but still slows and accelerates again.  I hope that there is some setting in the CV values that needs tweaking but I don't know what.  I have run it against a stop so as to rule out track issues as slipping it should always be under power and not slow.  Can someone please help?

Does this happen with any other loco? If so, I'd start with measuring the output from the controller, if not then definitely a call to Bachmann is indicated. I found Bachmann very helpful but you'll probably have to send it to them.

 

[CotBob]

6 minutes ago, rynd2it said:

Does this happen with any other loco? If so, I'd start with measuring the output from the controller, if not then definitely a call to Bachmann is indicated. I found Bachmann very helpful but you'll probably have to send it to them.

 

No just this loco, everything else works as it should even my self chipped Prince.  Looks like a call to Bachmann is in order, thanks.

[pauliebanger]

Since the sound is correctly following the simulated changes in 'regulator' and 'cut-off' (reverser) position I would be surprised if there was a hardware fault with the decoder.

 

To eliminate any unintentional CV changes, first job (because it's simple to do) would be to reset the decoder.

 

Reset using CV8 = 8 will put all CVs (including address '3') to sound project defaults. This will put all back to the 'as supplied' state and may fix this issue or help diagnose where the fault lies.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

Edited November 8, 2022 by pauliebanger

[MrTea]

I had my Bachmann Fairlie out for a ‘play’ over the weekend. I think I’ve mastered most of the sound functions now but there are a couple in the list that I don’t really understand:

 

F10 - Speed Lock

F14 - Light Engine Mode

F20 - Shunting Mode

 

 

F14 seems to tone down the momentum so that the loco speeds up and slows down more in line with changes to the regulator. But I can’t quite work out the difference between F14 and F20. 
 

If anyone knows about these and can shed any light it would be much appreciated!
 

Apologies if this has been covered before or in another thread. 
 

Ian

[rynd2it]

I think shunting mode is analogous to yard mode and basically turns off all the momentum, acceleration and deceleration features. It gives direct control to allow very short movements 

 

[Pre Grouping fan]

I think shunting mode slows the top speed to give more fine control over speed

 

Speed lock locks the speed when activated and allows you you increase/decrease the throttle to make the engine coast or make more noise without affecting speed. 

 

Probably more useful with diesels when running a long train you can set the throttle high and toggle speed lock on/off to slowly increase the trains speed. 

 

 

[neal]

Too many scales to model….must resist!

 

 

N

[pauliebanger]

8 hours ago, MrTea said:

I had my Bachmann Fairlie out for a ‘play’ over the weekend. I think I’ve mastered most of the sound functions now but there are a couple in the list that I don’t really understand:

 

F10 - Speed Lock

F14 - Light Engine Mode

F20 - Shunting Mode

 

 

F14 seems to tone down the momentum so that the loco speeds up and slows down more in line with changes to the regulator. But I can’t quite work out the difference between F14 and F20. 
 

If anyone knows about these and can shed any light it would be much appreciated!
 

Apologies if this has been covered before or in another thread. 
 

Ian

 

Hi Ian,

 

F20 Shunt Mode

 

There are two separate control manipulations enabled on the same F key to produce the shunt mode as provided in this model. (this is a combination of the earlier respondents' suggestions).

That is, the road speed is reduced by half relative to the speed steps in the throttle, plus all inertia and momentum are removed giving more precise close control. The shunt key may be engaged at any time and the road speed will reduce, throttle control will be instant (like a DC model) and any engine sounds playing will automatically adjust to the changed conditions.

 

F14 Light Engine Mode.

When F14 is not engaged (Heavy Train Mode) the chuffs will be at maximum  volume so long as the road speed is actually accelerating plus a few seconds when the desired speed is reached. (I'll call this cruising - maintaining speed) to smooth the effect. In broad terms, at this point, a real driver would reduce the steam entering the cylinders by using the reverser to 'cut off' early in the cycle to improve efficiency. Less steam pressure, less 'bark' in the exhaust so an observer would hear the exhaust 'soften'. That's what happens to the exhaust sounds (chuffs) in this loco - the timbre changes and the volume is reduced to simulate this effect.

 

When F14 is engaged, a different set of chuffs is substituted, these represent a solo engine (or one with a very light train). Similarly, the chuffs begin quite strongly and then reduce automatically a few seconds after cruising speed is achieved. Additionally, engaging F14 temporarilly reduces the values in CVs3 and 4 so, as you observed, a light engine or train will accelerate and decelerate more quickly than a heavy train. Since that's what happens in real life - happy days!!

 

This differs from F20 shunt mode in this project, since the road speed is not affected whilst inertia and momentum are only partially reduced, not reduced to zero. In fact, you can change the amount by which CVs 3 and 4 are reduced when F14 is engaged, by amending the value in CV 390. (But since someone has obviously already set the value to suit the loco and this model why would you?)

 

F10 Speed Lock.

Put simply, when engaged, the throttle no longer changes the road speed but instead now temporarilly controls the engine sounds. On a diesel electric or hydraulic loco, if F10 is engaged when standing (the loco, not you, LOL) the engine can be 'revved up' without the model moving but since a steam engine's chuffs are directly related to wheel rotation this would be wrong (and does not happen in this project) if F10 is engaged at standing.

 

I mention this difference between steam and diesel because it helps to explain the changes to sound you can expect from each type also when F10 is engaged whilst the loco is moving.

On diesels, the engine rev's can be increased or reduced manually by manipulating the throttle without resultant speed changes.

On steam locos, the chuff rate is directly related to road speed, so chuffs (analagous to revs) must not be more or less frequent at a given road speed. So, the only impact which can be simulated is the change in volume and timbre of each chuff.

 

Now, refer back to what I said about light and heavy train modes earlier. There are, in essence, 5 groups of engine sounds. F14 off - Heavy 'Full Gear', then Heavy 'Cut Off', F14 on - Light Full Gear. then Light 'Cut Off'. In either case, there is a coasting sound during deceleration.

 

With F10 engaged during movement, reducing the throttle by a small amount (5 -10 speed steps out of '128') will revert chuffs to coasting sounds, whilst raising by a small amount will change either coasting or 'cut off' (whatever is currently playing) to 'full gear' within the same mode (light or heavy). Larger throttle changes in one go will instead also change between modes. Note that since F10 Speed Lock is engaged the variation in values in CVs 3 and 4 is not applied (acceleration or deceration are impossible, so inertia and momentum are not relevant.

 

 

Which all goes to show that there's a lot going on in the background to try to simulate how a real loco operates and sounds by the automatic application of the laws of physics.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

 

BTW, that list seems to suggest that F2 (Manual Brake) gives only brake sounds but in reality as well as the application sounds, if the regulator is reduced beforehand that key also reduces the road speed in a progressive (hyperbolic) retardation effect, depending upon how long F2 is engaged. This allow a high value in CV4 for realistic coasting durations, whilst enabling reliable stopping in shorter durations. (The braking effect is automatically more rapid when F14 is engaged, too)

Edited November 8, 2022 by pauliebanger

[CotBob]

On 06/11/2022 at 12:23, pauliebanger said:

Since the sound is correctly following the simulated changes in 'regulator' and 'cut-off' (reverser) position I would be surprised if there was a hardware fault with the decoder.

 

To eliminate any unintentional CV changes, first job (because it's simple to do) would be to reset the decoder.

 

Reset using CV8 = 8 will put all CVs (including address '3') to sound project defaults. This will put all back to the 'as supplied' state and may fix this issue or help diagnose where the fault lies.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

Thanks Paul, I have tried before, but will reset it again and see if it makes a difference. 

[neal]

9 hours ago, neal said:

Too many scales to model….must resist!

 

 

N

Just realised I posted this in the wrong thread, never mind!!!

 

N

[MrTea]

4 hours ago, pauliebanger said:

 

Hi Ian,

 

F20 Shunt Mode

 

There are two separate control manipulations enabled on the same F key to produce the shunt mode as provided in this model. (this is a combination of the earlier respondents' suggestions).

That is, the road speed is reduced by half relative to the speed steps in the throttle, plus all inertia and momentum are removed giving more precise close control. The shunt key may be engaged at any time and the road speed will reduce, throttle control will be instant (like a DC model) and any engine sounds playing will automatically adjust to the changed conditions.

 

F14 Light Engine Mode.

When F14 is not engaged (Heavy Train Mode) the chuffs will be at maximum  volume so long as the road speed is actually accelerating plus a few seconds when the desired speed is reached. (I'll call this cruising - maintaining speed) to smooth the effect. In broad terms, at this point, a real driver would reduce the steam entering the cylinders by using the reverser to 'cut off' early in the cycle to improve efficiency. Less steam pressure, less 'bark' in the exhaust so an observer would hear the exhaust 'soften'. That's what happens to the exhaust sounds (chuffs) in this loco - the timbre changes and the volume is reduced to simulate this effect.

 

When F14 is engaged, a different set of chuffs is substituted, these represent a solo engine (or one with a very light train). Similarly, the chuffs begin quite strongly and then reduce automatically a few seconds after cruising speed is achieved. Additionally, engaging F14 temporarilly reduces the values in CVs3 and 4 so, as you observed, a light engine or train will accelerate and decelerate more quickly than a heavy train. Since that's what happens in real life - happy days!!

 

This differs from F20 shunt mode in this project, since the road speed is not affected whilst inertia and momentum are only partially reduced, not reduced to zero. In fact, you can change the amount by which CVs 3 and 4 are reduced when F14 is engaged, by amending the value in CV 390. (But since someone has obviously already set the value to suit the loco and this model why would you?)

 

F10 Speed Lock.

Put simply, when engaged, the throttle no longer changes the road speed but instead now temporarilly controls the engine sounds. On a diesel electric or hydraulic loco, if F10 is engaged when standing (the loco, not you, LOL) the engine can be 'revved up' without the model moving but since a steam engine's chuffs are directly related to wheel rotation this would be wrong (and does not happen in this project) if F10 is engaged at standing.

 

I mention this difference between steam and diesel because it helps to explain the changes to sound you can expect from each type also when F10 is engaged whilst the loco is moving.

On diesels, the engine rev's can be increased or reduced manually by manipulating the throttle without resultant speed changes.

On steam locos, the chuff rate is directly related to road speed, so chuffs (analagous to revs) must not be more or less frequent at a given road speed. So, the only impact which can be simulated is the change in volume and timbre of each chuff.

 

Now, refer back to what I said about light and heavy train modes earlier. There are, in essence, 5 groups of engine sounds. F14 off - Heavy 'Full Gear', then Heavy 'Cut Off', F14 on - Light Full Gear. then Light 'Cut Off'. In either case, there is a coasting sound during deceleration.

 

With F10 engaged during movement, reducing the throttle by a small amount (5 -10 speed steps out of '128') will revert chuffs to coasting sounds, whilst raising by a small amount will change either coasting or 'cut off' (whatever is currently playing) to 'full gear' within the same mode (light or heavy). Larger throttle changes in one go will instead also change between modes. Note that since F10 Speed Lock is engaged the variation in values in CVs 3 and 4 is not applied (acceleration or deceration are impossible, so inertia and momentum are not relevant.

 

 

Which all goes to show that there's a lot going on in the background to try to simulate how a real loco operates and sounds by the automatic application of the laws of physics.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

 

BTW, that list seems to suggest that F2 (Manual Brake) gives only brake sounds but in reality as well as the application sounds, if the regulator is reduced beforehand that key also reduces the road speed in a progressive (hyperbolic) retardation effect, depending upon how long F2 is engaged. This allow a high value in CV4 for realistic coasting durations, whilst enabling reliable stopping in shorter durations. (The braking effect is automatically more rapid when F14 is engaged, too)

Thanks Paul. That’s a really comprehensive and clear explanation of the features in the sound project. 
 

I will experiment with these next time I’m having a play!

[MrTea]

If anyone has a sound fitted Fairlie and would like to know a bit more about how to drive it, this cab ride video on YouTube has an interesting/useful segment:
 

 

This is the part of the journey from Boston Lodge to Minffordd. There are on screen captions of the controls which help place the sounds. One of the things the intrigued me was the use of the injector - I'd tried that on the model but I'd had no idea when to use it. The other one was the period rattling along at full pelt - Out of the 128 speed steps I have often stopped at about 60-something but it turns out I could quite happily 'open the taps' and it wouldn't be ridiculous! 🙂

 

Ian

Edited November 14, 2022 by MrTea

[pauliebanger]

9 hours ago, MrTea said:

If anyone has a sound fitted Fairlie and would like to know a bit more about how to drive it, this cab ride video on YouTube has an interesting/useful segment:
 

 

This is the part of the journey from Boston Lodge to Minffordd. There are on screen captions of the controls which help place the sounds. One of the things the intrigued me was the use of the injector - I'd tried that on the model but I'd had no idea when to use it. The other one was the period rattling along at full pelt - Out of the 128 speed steps I have often stopped at about 60-something but it turns out I could quite happily 'open the taps' and it wouldn't be ridiculous! 🙂

 

Ian

 

 

Ian,

 

Open the regulators as far as you wish. The gearing of the model and the structure of the sound project will produce a (generous) approximation of scale FR maximum line speed* at max speed steps.

 

*You can adjust this easily with CV57. Default is 40, lower gives lower max, higher values give faster top speeds.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[nathan70000]

Would anyone be able to check if the Fairlie can negotiate Kato R183 radius curves?

 

I'm thinking of building a little Welsh-themed unitrack micro layout for my OO9 stock. The Fairlie is the largest locomotive I've got.

[JIJ]

The Fairlie can comfortably make it around 150mm curves while coupled to swb stock

[Guardian]

On 14/11/2022 at 15:15, pauliebanger said:

 

 

*You can adjust this easily with CV57. Default is 40, lower gives lower max, higher values give faster top speeds.

 

Hi Paul,

 

is this a Zimo Decoder inside the Bachmann Double Fairlie? As yet, I only experienced ESU decoders in Bachmann models (and the respective ESU CV would be 53)

 

Best,

Mark

[Kaput]

The factory sound Fairlies use Zimo decoders.