Freight on the Bournemouth mainline in BR days

[SRyan]

Afternoon all,

 

My understanding has mostly been that bogie bolster wagons were not commonly used on the Southern, either in the grouping era or in BR(S) days, although as with many understandings, they can end up misconceived!

 

I've seen many photos of such wagons lined up in the sidings at Winchester during the late 50s and 60s, but have also seen a couple of photos on Flickr and sites of a similar nature of them in a couple of (mostly engineering) trains on the Bournemouth main line (my area of interest).

 

A couple of examples are - https://www.flickr.com/photos/31514768@N05/3461910437/in/faves-157303605@N05/, https://www.flickr.com/photos/billsboy/5950288972/in/faves-157303605@N05/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/billsboy/4345222969/in/faves-157303605@N05/.

 

Does anyone know which particular versions these are likely to be?

 

Thanks all! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by SRyan
Title change

[eastwestdivide]

Possibly too late for you, but I used to see them, BR BDV (bolster D) types, in Rochester goods yard late 70s/very early 80s, with long steel, often with spacer wagons between them as the steel was longer than the wagons. 
I think from the early 80s onwards the BDA air braked ones appeared on trains of rebar from Sheerness Steel. 

[Fat Controller]

Most of them look like 'Salmon'; BR-built wagons used to carry track panels, rail etc. Those used for panels had flat floors, whilst those used for rail had bolsters. The Southern had built a range of similar wagons; the first, originally built for the L&SWR, were 45' long, but were soon followed by 60' examples. These were coded 'Borail', indicating their main purpose.

[Guest Jack Benson]

Not as rare as you might think. This image of 0395 30581 near Exeter in the ‘50s shows a bolster carrying fresh cut timber presumably from the Forestry Commission in Devon?
 

I think it is a standard Mackaw C as offered by Bachmann.
 

StaySafe   

 

7

[Wickham Green too]

On 15/12/2021 at 16:36, Fat Controller said:

.... The Southern had built a range of similar wagons; the first, originally built for the L&SWR, were 45' long, but were soon followed by 60' examples. These were coded 'Borail', indicating their main purpose.

There were also the 'Manta' and 'Marlin' long welded rail carriers converted from S.R. electric stock about 1970.

[hmrspaul]

7 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

There were also the 'Manta' and 'Marlin' long welded rail carriers converted from S.R. electric stock about 1970.

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/departmental975500

 

On 15/12/2021 at 16:36, Fat Controller said:

The Southern had built a range of similar wagons; the first, originally built for the L&SWR, were 45' long, but were soon followed by 60' examples. These were coded 'Borail', indicating their main purpose.

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/srborail

 

Paul

[jonhall]

On 15/12/2021 at 15:15, SRyan said:

A couple of examples are - https://www.flickr.com/photos/31514768@N05/3461910437/in/faves-157303605@N05/,  and 

 

 

This appears to be carrying pipes westbound from Eastleigh - would these be to Fawley?

 

Quote

https://www.flickr.com/photos/billsboy/5950288972/in/faves-157303605@N05/

 

I think this train is a Civil Engineer train with sheet piling on the wagon

 

Quote

https://www.flickr.com/photos/billsboy/4345222969/in/faves-157303605@N05/.

 

This is clearly a rail train, the basic improvised TRU is interesting in its own right, and it probably indicates non marlin or Manta, as these were I believe for Continuous Welded Rail.

 

I'd assume that the relative scarcity of SR and constituents bogie bolsters reflects the relative scarcity of steel rolling mills in the South, but there would have course been consuming industries, but would their supplies arrive on a non-SR wagon? and how much tonnage would be repeatable/regular (vs ad-hoc deliveries of stuff like re-bar to construction sites).

 

There would also have been timber on bolsters.

 

jon

 

[Wickham Green too]

51 minutes ago, jonhall said:

.... the relative scarcity of SR and constituents bogie bolsters ......

... probably has an awful lot to do with the fact that the SR was the smallest of the 'Big Four' so had a far smaller wagon fleet overall ......... it was, also, more of a passenger-orientated railway than the others.

[SRyan]

First of all thanks to everyone that has responded!

 

Is perhaps then the best option out there for replicating these trains in the 50’s/60’s (in 4mm scale) this borail kit from Cambrian or something similar? 
 

https://www.cambrianmodelrail.co.uk/store/C28-BR-BORAIL-ECEB-MB-p93876137

[Wickham Green too]

..... and/or C103 .... and/or C104.

[SRyan]

Afternoon all,

 

Going back into the archives to resurrect and rebrand this topic and ask a question that came to mind after I picked up a copy of Colin Boocock’s book ‘Bournemouth and Southampton Steam 1947-1967’.

 

I saw on one of the pages a picture of M7 30108 shunting an oil train at Wareham (likely in the 60’s but pre-64 when that engine was withdrawn) with the caption stating this was a regular occurrence. I’d actually never seen any pictures like this before and, with Dapol’s air ministry tanks in the offing, wanted to ask whether the tanks would have come down from Fawley and whether they would be of the variety offered by Dapol?

 

Thanks in advance for any help,

 

Ryan

[Fat Controller]

The traffic at Wareham was probably to/from the onshore oil field near Furzebrook. I believe this was operated by BP, so its output would go to one of their refineries , perhaps Llandarcy

Being crude oil, it would be treated as a Class A, liquid, so silver tanks and lots of barrier wagons would have been the rule. Some of the barriers might be opens working to the adjacent clay-pits..

[geoffers]

On 12/02/2024 at 16:52, Fat Controller said:

The traffic at Wareham was probably to/from the onshore oil field near Furzebrook

Much as I hate to disagree the oilfield near Furzebrook is Wytch Farm and was discovered in the 1970s and started pumping oil in the late 70s. The oil tankers parked at Wareham (I remember them well) would have been oil from the Kimmeridge well, discovered in the late 1950s and still producing to this day. I am sure the tankers were black not silver.

Edited March 12 by geoffers

[Cwmtwrch]

Crude oil is not homogenous; it contains liquids with varying flashpoints, some of which are class A. BP were the original owners of Kimmeridge, and had a dedicated crude oil fleet originally inherited from Oakbank Oil, Youngs of Bathgate and Scottish Oils, originally used for crude derived from Scottish oil shales. Tanks from the same fleet also served wells at Formby and Eakring. I have not found any information relating to Kimmeridge, but it seems likely the same fleet would initially have served that well also [the crude is piped to Wych Farm now].

 

Because of the class A liquids involved, the BP crude oil tanks were silver with red solebars in BR days, the standard livery for that class, but some, at least, also had steam heating coils to permit discharge of the heavier liquids, an unusual combination. The heavier liquids made the crude very dark, and photographs show spillage could make it difficult to read black lettering on the tanks. Unusually for that period, some of the tanks involved were large bogie vehicles.

On 12/02/2024 at 15:21, SRyan said:

I’d actually never seen any pictures like this before and, with Dapol’s air ministry tanks in the offing, wanted to ask whether the tanks would have come down from Fawley and whether they would be of the variety offered by Dapol?

Fawley belonged to Esso; most probably they would have worked to Llandarcy in south Wales, but BP also had refineries at  Pumpherston and Grangemouth in Scotland. There were one or two tanks in the BP crude oil fleet built during WW2 which appear to be similar to the Air Ministry design, but they were owned by BP only; they did not form part of the Shell Mex - BP fleet at any time [and I believe never formed part of the wartime Petroleum Board fleet either].

 

"Petroleum Rail Tank Wagons of Britain" R Tourret is my source for most of the above.

[geoffers]

On 12/02/2024 at 15:21, SRyan said:

I saw on one of the pages a picture of M7 30108 shunting an oil train at Wareham

This photo is in the Colin Boocock book "Bournemouth and Southampton Steam 1947-1967" dated as 1960 and involves shunting by M7 30108 but is incorrectly tagged as Wytch Farm oil. This would have been Kimmeridge oil (reasons mentioned above). There is also a photo over the level crossing looking eastwards from Wareham footbridge in Mitchell and Smith's Middleton Press book "Branch Line to Swanage" which shows oil tankers, albeit in the middle distance.

[Cwmtwrch]

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6473764 and https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6473766 show what appear to be BP crude oil tanks; it is difficult to be totally sure, but there is a lot of dark staining on what appear to be silver tanks, the plate which would be carrying the BP shield is spaced off the centre of the tank, and there is a general absence of ladders, which tallies with photographs in Tourret and Larkin "Private Owner Freight Wagons on BR".

 

By the 1970s there were still tanks there, but rather different https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-pelican-railways/16966555348 and https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidhayes/52140672941.