On30 - has interest waned?

[Jeff Smith]

It's my knowledge that On30 really took off as a commercial success with the introduction of a considerable range of RTR items by Bachmann USA.  When I got interested about 5 or 6 years ago there seemed to be plenty of stock readily available over here in the US.  Lately availablility has dwindled and it seems that Bachmann has discontinued many items.  Even eBay seems to have little to offer.

 

So what's happening?  Has Bachmann decided that the market is saturated or has demand, and interest, simply dried up?

Edited December 22, 2021 by Jeff Smith

[Dungrange]

On30 is predominantly an American scale: the British outline equivalent would be O-16.5.  I'm not sure that there has ever been much ready to run, but there are certainly kits in O-16.5 - my club have an O-16.5 layout.  Looking at the British narrow gauge market though, I note that both Bachmann and Peco are now making models in 009, so presumably these manufacturers think there is greater demand in the smaller scale.

[ngtrains.com]

The main reason is, I suspect, due to the death of designer Lee Riley. He was an On30 modeller and really championed the scale from the start cooking up the deal with the trains round the Christmas tree people to get the volume that justified producing the first set - the mogul & three coaches.

He also encouraged the 3rd party suppliers. The set launched at the 1996 NG convention (might have the year wrong) in Colorado Springs and by the end of day one they had to truck more in. At that same show there were already cab kits and an On3 regauging kit.

 

More recently I think they have lost the plot and as a result lost the modellers. Contrast this….

 

the Mogul was a plastic body on a really smooth running chassis which could be had for well under a hundred quid. It had no fancy electronics, just plain old DC. It came to bits easily, if you wanted to modify it a scalpel and file sufficed. Lots of small traders made kits to modify and alter them.

 

the recent stuff. Odd prototypes. Die cast metal. Stuffed full of electronics. Price the wrong side of 300 quid.  If you could afford one dare you modify it? You’d need a hacksaw anyway.

 

 

[Andy Kirkham]

I'm unfamiiar with 0n30 scale and have just had a look at the Bachmann range. I'm astonished to see that a model loco costing £352.95 should lack outside Walschaerts valve gear when I know that the prototype was fitted with it.

 

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/product/category/221/2-6-2t-baldwin-class-10-trench-engine---painted%2c-unlettered---black/29505#mz-expanded-view-383619888100

[Huw Griffiths]

2 hours ago, ngtrains.com said:

More recently I think they have lost the plot and as a result lost the modellers. Contrast this….

 

the Mogul was a plastic body on a really smooth running chassis which could be had for well under a hundred quid. It had no fancy electronics, just plain old DC. It came to bits easily, if you wanted to modify it a scalpel and file sufficed. Lots of small traders made kits to modify and alter them.

 

the recent stuff. Odd prototypes. Die cast metal. Stuffed full of electronics. Price the wrong side of 300 quid.  If you could afford one dare you modify it? You’d need a hacksaw anyway.

 

This strikes me as fair comment.

 

Around the turn of the millennium, I was drawn to On30 by the Spectrum (ie Bachmann) On30 streetcar - also the short "Wild West" style carriages from the same stable. They were available - affordable - easy to adapt - but also looked great straight out of the box. I got some at the time - I really wish I'd got lots more.

 

Fast forward to the last few years - they seem to be made of "unotainium" - even if anyone could afford them, that is.

 

I've actually got a number of planned build projects that have suddenly got a lot more difficult - and extremely expensive, if I use commercially made parts, like roofs for instance (I haven't even seen them secondhand for ages).

 

Time will tell if I find some "work round" - or if I end up being forced to abandon my plans.

 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Huw Griffiths

[Jeff Smith]

Some interesting comments.  The Bachmann On30 loco's represented approximations of both 2' and 3' prototypes on a compromise 2'6" gauge (16.5mm at 1:48 scale ).  Although myself contemplating a 2' gauge Maine layout in On30 I'm wondering if the bubble has burst and serious modellers are finished with the compromises of On30 - there being hardly any US 2'6" gauge railroads.

[Mike Bellamy]

7 hours ago, Huw Griffiths said:

Fast forward to the last few years - they seem to be made of "unotainium" - even if anyone could afford them, that is.

 

The 7mm Narrow Gauge Association has an active On30 second hand sales section where you may find what you need. The Sales Officer there is also involved with The Slim Gauge Circle which caters for UK interests in USA narrow gauge modelling.

 

Click Here for link to 7mmNGA On30 Depot Sales

.

[Hando]

15 hours ago, Dungrange said:

On30 is predominantly an American scale: the British outline equivalent would be O-16.5.  I'm not sure that there has ever been much ready to run, but there are certainly kits in O-16.5 - my club have an O-16.5 layout.  Looking at the British narrow gauge market though, I note that both Bachmann and Peco are now making models in 009, so presumably these manufacturers think there is greater demand in the smaller scale.

Lionheart Trains are developing a range of RTR Lynton and Barnstaple stock in O-16.5, which is expected to be on the market by next August, which could generate more interest amongst manufacturers in O scale narrow gauge.

https://www.lionhearttrains.com/index.php?route=blog/article&article_id=13

Edited December 23, 2021 by Hando

[alastairq]

12 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

Although myself contemplating a 2' gauge Maine layout in On30 I'm wondering if the bubble has burst and serious modellers are finished with the compromises of On30 - there being hardly any US 2'6" gauge railroads.

 

 Whilst I agree with the part about the paucity of 2 foot 6 inch gauge railroads in the US proper, Bachmann did model 2 foot 6 inch prototypes.

For example, the O/F 4-4-0 is based on a South American prototype.

 

The principle behind the ON30 setup was the use of existing HO gauge trackage. Thus something could be 'up & running' very quickly...unlike On3 or ON2?

Given our acceptance of the shortcomings of OO gauge, the 6 inch difference in a narrow gauge arena isn't much of a compromise.

Besides, we use 009 to represent anything from 1 foot 11 inches gauge or so, right up to 2 foot 3 inches, without qualm.

My biggest bugbear in railway modelling as things stand today is the simple one of price!

As has been noted above, it was one thing to price a nicely running locomotive for under 90 quid or so, to producing a 300 quid or so loco which might, or might not, be a good runner, or useable as fodder for a conversions....Electronics apart, nowadays there seems to be, no option.

Nowadays all our railway stuff seems to have followed the concept I note in our new cars? One gets fancy electronics and connectivity, whether one likes it [or, wants it?] or not...

 

If  not, tough!

[Oldddudders]

I feel Bachmann's On30 has a caricature-ish feel to it, and yes I do own a pile of it, together with a couple of BLI etc models. If it ever gets to run on a layout, I feel the structures - mainly Banta kits - will be far closer to their prototype than the trains, which is not often the case in the smaller scales, where locos and stock these days are pretty close to faithful, while buildings are sometimes a bit company-generic at best. 

 

The 8'-long representation of Bridge 45A at Ophir is in pieces in the wings just needing a stage...... 

[Nearholmer]

If you compare with Minitrains in H0e/H0n30/009 (I’m never totally sure what scales they use), the two things that seem to me to be significantly different are the price point, and the entirely US focus. 
 

Minitrains seem to get it about right price-wise, although some may argue with that, and they adopt a lot of ‘industrial’ prototypes which can legitimately be used for multiple countries, and likewise ex-WW1 military things.

 

Good luck to Lionheart with what they’ve chosen for 0, but I’ve long thought that the loco to go for would be an O&K 20hp 0-4-0WT, because they were sold all over the world, including into Britain, where they were effectively copied by Barclay. As a diesel, possibly the Deutz OMZ117, which again sold worldwide, with Bagnall building a few under license in Britain. These are the two that LGB chose for their Feldbahn range, and they’ve been pumping them out steadily for 25 years.

 

Always start a narrow gauge range with an 0-4-0 steam loco and a 4WD, both of very wide appeal, keep them widely affordable, then grow carefully. Bachman did the Porter and Davenport, which fit the bill, and seem to have sold like hot cakes, then lost it a bit, IMO.
 

But then, Fleischmann, I think Maerklin (Minex), and Billerbahn are all members of the dead littering the field of r-t-r 0 scale NG, so maybe it just isn’t a place to go! They all made nice models, but couldn’t sell enough of them.

[Jeff Smith]

There has been some speculation about what actual scale some of the Bachmann On30 locos are and whether they represent real prototypes.  They do seem well made and some could be had for reasonable prices, far less than those shown on the Bachmann website.  There was a certain amount of unloading on eBay sites a few years ago, at one time Micromark was selling Shays (DC only) for $110!  I suspect mine might have the common cracked gear problem and I'm not sure replacements are easy to come by now.

[ngtrains.com]

Quote

 I suspect mine might have the common cracked gear problem and I'm not sure replacements are easy to come by now.

NWSL did metal replacement gears but are sold out and apparently don’t plan to do more because……

 

Bachmann revised the design, increased the boss size and were, at first, giving them away to aggrieved owners. You can, or could, buy them off the Bachmann US spares website. They do go out of stock but they do seem to get more eventually. If you go there get the assembled line shaft and get some of the bearing caps. As the tool for the die cast truck sides became worn the caps stopped clipping in so they even started glueing them at the factory. If glued getting them off destroys them. For the really lazy option they sometimes have complete trucks available.

[cnw6847]

On 23/12/2021 at 08:29, Mike Bellamy said:

 

The 7mm Narrow Gauge Association has an active On30 second hand sales section where you may find what you need. The Sales Officer there is also involved with The Slim Gauge Circle which caters for UK interests in USA narrow gauge modelling.

 

Click Here for link to 7mmNGA On30 Depot Sales

.

At the SGC meet in November there was lots of locos & stock on the 7mm NGA On30 depot tables.

 

Well worth joining if anyone wants to get into On30.

 

I sold all my On30 to them earlier in the year and was very happy with the offer I received for it.

[Nile]

There must still be some interest in On30 for Matt Chivers to resurrect his kits at Five79 .

[alastairq]

A big issue I feel with ON30 is that of the scale used?

1:48 rather than 1:43.5 or 1:45?

Which makes it barely 6mm/foot...

Noticeable when1:48  diecast models placed next to 1:43 similar.

[Nile]

I could muddy the waters even more by mentioning 55n3 , which uses On30 models for 3ft gauge in 5.5mm scale.

[Mike Bellamy]

1 hour ago, alastairq said:

A big issue I feel with ON30 is that of the scale used?

1:48 rather than 1:43.5 or 1:45?

Which makes it barely 6mm/foot...

Noticeable when1:48  diecast models placed next to 1:43 similar.

 

I don't see that as an issue - we are talking here about models of USA prototypes where 1:48 is the recognised scale. The original Bachmann models mentioned earlier were made for the American market not the UK. For proper UK prototype narrow gauge models, we can look forward to the Lionheart L&B stock which will be to 1:43.5 and will be suitable for both Peco O-16.5 track and the new O-14 track now available from EDM Models.  It's a bit like saying that OO stock is the wrong scale as it runs on HO track . . . . 

 

I do agree about vehicles as there are very few UK commercial vehicles in 1:43.5 - most are 1:50 and so even smaller that 1:48 !!

.

 

[alastairq]

1 hour ago, Mike Bellamy said:

I don't see that as an issue - we are talking here about models of USA prototypes where 1:48 is the recognised scale.

 Not an issue if intent on staying to US type....but an issue when using the stuff to go further afield in the world...

[Jeff Smith]

Actually 1:48 is a nice imperial scale, very easy to work with, quarter of an inch to the foot.....and some Bachmann On30 items are useable for O-16.5, the side and V tippers.  Also the coupling height is just right for the Peco O-16.5 kits.

[John Besley]

I know its nearly 12 months since this topic last had any posts to it but....

 

I am on the hunt for 0N30 Arch Bar trucks for an Exhill Works project build.... where can I obtain some please...

 

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by John Besley
Schpelling

[Jeff Smith]

Presumably you have searched eBay?

[Mike]

Kadee  arch bar trucks are available from the 7mm Narrow Gauge Sales Ltd. Might be worth a look.

 

[Jeff Smith]

Just looked at the Kadee website and couldn't see any trucks for On30, perhaps HO ones can double!

[John Besley]

H0  Archbar trucks are too small...