Drop head buck eye couplings.

[Adrian Stevenson]

I bought a pair today at Warley to fit to my Hattons A3 and one of the Gresley coaches. 
 

Cheers, Ade.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Fitted one to one of the Teaks. Very straightforward to do just had to open up the hole a little on the drawbar. Now to fit one the A3

Edited November 27, 2022 by Adrian Stevenson
Spelling

[hoover50008]

Hi folks

 

Has anyone fitted these to a Heljan  Mk1 please? be interested to see some pictures if you have any.

 

Many thanks

 

E

[paulbb]

Presume these can't be used with freight vehicles as the shank is too short to prevent buffer locking? Or is a longer version to be made? Are Kadees too big to look OK on UK freight stock?

[ozzyo]

23 hours ago, paulbb said:

Presume these can't be used with freight vehicles as the shank is too short to prevent buffer locking? Or is a longer version to be made? Are Kadees too big to look OK on UK freight stock?

 

In reply I don't like the look of buckeye couplings on freight stock as most of British freight stock had three link, instanter or screw couplings. Some of the newer stock has a type of buckeye coupling.

But it's your stock and you can put any couplings on it.

This link should help you decide if you want to use Kadees ,this link should take you to the O gauge couplings, but you may want to have a look at the S gauge ones as well.

O Scale Couplers - Couplers - Shop by Category (kadee.com)

 

ATB

 

OzzyO.

[paulbb]

6 hours ago, ozzyo said:

 

In reply I don't like the look of buckeye couplings on freight stock as most of British freight stock had three link, instanter or screw couplings. Some of the newer stock has a type of buckeye coupling.

But it's your stock and you can put any couplings on it.

This link should help you decide if you want to use Kadees ,this link should take you to the O gauge couplings, but you may want to have a look at the S gauge ones as well.

O Scale Couplers - Couplers - Shop by Category (kadee.com)

 

ATB

 

OzzyO.

Many thanks for your suggestion. The Kadees look a bit clunky for UK short wheelbase wagons, even the S gauge ones

[F-UnitMad]

On 18/01/2023 at 13:37, paulbb said:

Presume these can't be used with freight vehicles as the shank is too short to prevent buffer locking? Or is a longer version to be made? Are Kadees too big to look OK on UK freight stock?

Surely that would be the case even more with coaching stock? It's curve radius that affects buffer locking.

[Bucoops]

Aren't buffers supposed to be retracted when buckeye couplings are used? Or is that just coaching stock?

[Pacific231G]

3 hours ago, Bucoops said:

  On 18/01/2023 at 13:37, paulbb said:

Presume these can't be used with freight vehicles as the shank is too short to prevent buffer locking? Or is a longer version to be made? Are Kadees too big to look OK on UK freight stock?

Aren't buffers supposed to be retracted when buckeye couplings are used? Or is that just coaching stock?

All the goods wagons I've seen with Janney (AAR type) couplers round here (mostly stone and aggregates around Acton, Ealing and Greenford) are bufferless and run in sets, usually with buffers and standard screw couplings at each end of the set. I have seen EWS 66000s sheds with Janney couplers that can be swung out of the way so presumably some sets are entirely Janney but I'm not sure if the coupler heads are the same size as those long used on dropheads with coaching stock - they look larger to me. 

It's a matter of taste whether Kadees look OK on other British goods stock. I use them on my H0 French layout but have to choose the appropriate NEM Kadee coupler for each wagon so that the buffers just touch or come very close. I have to acknowledge that they're not prototypical but neither are tension locks, hinged loops or any other model automatic coupler. Being based in appearance on a real coupler (just not one used on most British or any continental European wagons) they do , at least to my eyes , look better than any other commercially available coupler, but others  don't like them at all.

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Pacific231G

[Chris-ECT]

Good afternoon all, 

 

Sorry for the lack of replies! 

 

We have produced a handy fitting video for our drop head Buckeyes to help with any queries and questions.

 

 

[Bucoops]

Thank you, will have a look later

[Bucoops]

It was interesting thank you - but still nothing on recommended ways to uncouple?

[Beclawat]

Thanks for the video. I've just successfully fitted one of your buckeyes to a Lionheart Mark 1. Regarding the bit behind the drawbar that you said you had to cut off (09:36 on your video), I found that by loosening the interior screws that hold the coach compartment floor to the underframe and removing the bogie, I was able to wiggle out the triangular piece that you cut into, therefore avoiding having to cut it. I've kept it as a spare along with the Lionheart buckeye, see photo.

 

My Thompson coaches now couple up to the mark 1 as good as gold, with the couplings at the same level. These buckeyes are a lovely little bit of engineering.

[Grovenor]

Some relevant info here,

http://www.norgrove.me.uk/buckeye.htm

[Chris-ECT]

On 23/02/2023 at 13:44, Bucoops said:

It was interesting thank you - but still nothing on recommended ways to uncouple?

Good morning Rich, 

 

The drop head couplings were designed with ease of coupling rakes together easily and looking prototypical. We have found the easiest and simplest way of uncoupling them is to simply place a screwdriver or uncoupling stick on top of one side and below on the other and pushing in the opposite directions up and down. It isn't a pretty way to do it but it is functional. Magnets hanging down wouldn't work as they would foul the bogies in the dropped position and with them being as close to scale/ the prototype as possible there were no other real options available. 

 

Hope this helps?

[Chris-ECT]

That's handy information Beclawat I will let Neil and the team know how you managed to get around this! Thanks for the information

 

Kind regards

Chris

[Bucoops]

39 minutes ago, Chris-ECT said:

Good morning Rich, 

 

The drop head couplings were designed with ease of coupling rakes together easily and looking prototypical. We have found the easiest and simplest way of uncoupling them is to simply place a screwdriver or uncoupling stick on top of one side and below on the other and pushing in the opposite directions up and down. It isn't a pretty way to do it but it is functional. Magnets hanging down wouldn't work as they would foul the bogies in the dropped position and with them being as close to scale/ the prototype as possible there were no other real options available. 

 

Hope this helps?

 

Ok thank you

[hoover50008]

Fitted these to some Heljan Mk1’s whilst the operation was very straightforward it was made unnecessarily complicated by the fact that Heljan had glued the buffer beams together on some of the coaches not all for some reason.  Still happy with the end result.

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E

[F-UnitMad]

On 27/02/2023 at 10:50, Chris-ECT said:

We have found the easiest and simplest way of uncoupling them is to simply place a screwdriver or uncoupling stick on top of one side and below on the other and pushing in the opposite directions up and down

Bold added - excuse me???!!! 🤔🙄 How on earth does one insert a screwdriver or stick underneath the coupler???!!! Except by lying the stock on it's sides??

The mind boggles, unfortunately. 🤯

[djparkins]

15 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Bold added - excuse me???!!! 🤔🙄 How on earth does one insert a screwdriver or stick underneath the coupler???!!! Except by lying the stock on it's sides??

The mind boggles, unfortunately. 🤯

 

I bought five sets of these but am seriously debating now whether to buy more. I cannot understand why you would want to raise the coupling. I can't really think of an instance why, on gangwayed stock, you would want to do this.

 

But even so, the much more important function is to be able to drop it from the horizontal easily and bring it back up again to that position - and the method suggested above to do this seems very far from being either easy or convenient. Apart from the ability to join two pieces of stock together via the sprung knuckles with the couplers in the horiziontal position [which I agree is nice to have], it is much easier to raise the couplings on the buckeyes in our own Mk.1 kits for example - simply by sliding through a locking pin, attached to the coach buffer beam via chain [as per prototype], with no lifting of the coupler head above the horizontal.

 

David Parkins,

Modern Motive Power

[Hal Nail]

Surely what they were saying was to get them apart you need to move one coupling up relative to the other?

 

You can either pick the coaches up or just juggle in situ with a pair of screwdrivers.

[F-UnitMad]

1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

either pick the coaches up

Ok if there's only two coupled together. 🤔

[djparkins]

2 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Surely what they were saying was to get them apart you need to move one coupling up relative to the other?

 

You can either pick the coaches up or just juggle in situ with a pair of screwdrivers.

 

So your A4 arrives at the head of a train using buckeye couplers, as per prototype, and on the layout you pick up a ten coach train from the track in order to uncouple the loco from the first coach?! And you can't lift the coupler enough above the horizontal with everything on the track, as there is very little clearance below the gangways [if your coach is accurate]. Sounds great. The hook won't drop or raise up enough. I've just tried it on a Darstead Thompson full brake and it won't work, so no chance on our own Mk.1s, with much tighter tolerances. It is a shame as in many ways, as stated above, they are otherwise well engineered. I would order many more sets if they would simply drop from the horizontal.

[Hal Nail]

6 hours ago, djparkins said:

So your A4 arrives at the head of a train

Or perhaps not, if it is Heljan.

 

I was merely trying to interperate their post but I think the suggestion is that there is an element of lifting the coach required, albeit they are saying via a screwdriver under the coupling (which can't move up, so lifts the coach a bit), rather than the more direct hand of god.

 

On a different note, could anyone who has tried these with Lionheart show two coupled together? Whilst I don't like the look of their original cam system, it does allow the corridors to remain touching and I'm not sure if these new ones still would?

 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Hal Nail

[Ellis Clark Trains]

Hi guys,

 

Sorry for the confusion on uncoupling our Drophead Buckeyes.

 

For uncoupling in the horizontal (buckeye) position, I've made a little video - although it's too large to upload, so please email myself (ellis@ellisclarktrains.com) if you would like a copy of it.

 

In terms of dropping the coupling, I'll admit it is a bit trickier.

 

If honest, it probably is better to pick up the one coach in the rake you would like to drop the coupling on and lift, slide and drop with fingers.

 

It is a difficult one with this project, as they needed to be strong, well detailed, to scale and of course, work in dropped or knuckle position.

 

If they were looser or required less lift to slide and drop, then coaches would be forever uncoupling.

 

Essentially, this was the best middle ground we could find, but we understand they won't be for everyone.

 

Hope this helps shed some light on the couplings.

 

All the best,

Ellis.