allied steel wire internal user fleet

[darren chpamn]

Thanks brian again so amazed  how much information you have  on the wagons 

Regards daz

 

[br2975]

2 hours ago, darren chpamn said:

Thanks brian again so amazed  how much information you have  on the wagons 

 

I first took an interest in the late 1980s, and would record each wagon, each and every time I saw them and noting any changes to bogies, bodywork, buffers etc.

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This continued through to when GBRf took over,

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I had several contacts within ASW / Celsa who were only to willing to pass on information, as well as a lot of help from several other enthusiasts.

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These contacts gave me a bit more access than normal, as the photos from the Celsa era may show ?

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In fact, 08854 'Bradshaw' seen below was a favourite loco of mine, as it was named after a good friend and neighbour, the late Alan 'Bradshaw' Hill a much loved, highly respected and sadly missed  fitter at Canton depot.

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Regards,

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Brian.

Edited January 29, 2022 by br2975

[Rivercider]

This is a very detailed and informative thread Brian.

I was well aware of the volume of freight traffic that came out of ASW from my time as a TOPS clerk. Later in my BR/EWS career as a roster clerk (briefly) at Newport I knew about the EWS driving turns for Celsa, though I never truly realised the extent of the internal network there was.

 

Your earlier post mentioning the ASW use of TOPS rings a bell.

At some point in my career  (either as a TOPS clerk or at WR HQ) a manager from ASW  was visiting the office where I was working, and my manager asked me to explain the TOPS system. The ASW man obviously knew quite a lot about TOPS - did ASW have a TOPS terminal to make a limited amount of their own enquiries? I think they were looking to enhance their use of computers for tracking wagon movements at the time.

 

cheers 

[br2975]

Kevin,

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On the first floor in the then ASW Traffic Control Centre there were a few computers, one of which I believe accessed TOPS; albeit there was also a TOPS facility at Tidal.

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However, the printouts with which we were provided during a visit and tour on 22nd. August, 2002 are shown below, and are not TOPS products.

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The one system, not TOPS, showed the location and status of every ASW wagon, and also all network registered wagons i.e. EWS and Private Owner at Tidal, Cardiff Docks, Allied Birds Fragmentisers, and within the ASW works at Tremorfa and Castle Works (Rod Mill).

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An example of the information held on that system  is shown below

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You will also see reference to the 6 Cl.37s stored at the Castle Works on behalf of EWS.

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The second image shops how the computer system held information on each individual ASW (internal user) wagon.

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Brian

Edited January 30, 2022 by br2975

[darren chpamn]

That last picture i I'm amazed  that they kept information  on buffers and bearings etc  first time I've seen a internal wagon fleet with so much info

[darren chpamn]

Hi Brian 

Having  rereading this thread today 

You said that you have information  on buffers and bogies that were used on the CD and CRM wagons

Do you have this information  to hand as I would like to start build a small fleet of these wagons 

Regards daz

[br2975]

5 hours ago, darren chpamn said:

Hi Brian 

Having  rereading this thread today 

You said that you have information  on buffers and bogies that were used on the CD and CRM wagons

Do you have this information  to hand as I would like to start build a small fleet of these wagons 

Regards daz

I have some handwritten notes (undated, but circa 2000-2002) which makes reference to the following wagons and their bogies,

some of which I've put below.

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CRM 3 ex B927777 'Plate roller'

CRM 6 ex B927722 - 'Plate roller'

CRM 10 ex B927510 - 'Davies & Lloyd'

CRM 14 ex B927408 - 'Davies & Lloyd'

CRM 19 ex B927775 - 'Plate roller'

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CD603 ex B927423 - 'Davies & Lloyd'

CD610 ex B927504 - 'Davies & Lloyd'

CD622 ex B927492 - 'davies & Lloyd'

CD636 ex B927448 - 'Davies & Lloyd'

CD640 ex B927772 - 'Plate roller'

CD645 ex B927615 - 'Plate roller'

CD651 ex B927748- 'Plate roller'

CD658 ex B927719 - 'Plate roller'

CD669 ex B927553 - 'Davies & Lloyd'

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CD620 ex B927410 with "E/S" bogies (ASW description) was lettered "To work between Q.A. North and CRBM on Reject Coils Only"

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All the above still carried their BR 'self contained' buffers.

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Hope this helps ?

 

[darren chpamn]

Hi Brian 

That's great thanks 

[LTSV]

Hello all,

 

I recently found a list of numbers of internal user wagons noted at Tremorfa Allied Steel and Wire in the 1990-2007 period, which I thought had come from this forum, though I can't find it now. It was a few years ago.

 

The list included several B950xxx numbers with new internal numbers in the BD1-22 range. I wondered if these were meant to be 950xxx numbers (ie BDA bogie bolsters rather than brake vans), though some of the BDA numbers appear to still be in main-line use after 2007. Can anyone say what type of wagon the BD series was? I have hunted for photos on-line.

 

Also, I have a noob question. Several posts have photos included, but all I see is the filename and a broken link icon. Am I doing something wrong?

 

Cheers,

Tom Young
www.ltsv.com

[br2975]

The 'BD' series of wagons were introduced by the new owners of the works, Celsa (UK) and were not ASW internal users.

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ASW went into receivership in July 2002, and their assets were bought by Celsa.

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Most of the 300+ ASW internal users were scrapped during the period of limbo before Celsa took over.

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The 'BD' wagons are former BDA/BEA wagons, modified for carrying billets from the Tremorfa 'melt shop' billet bank to the Castle Works, better known as the Cardiff Rod Mill.

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Here are some of my images of the BD series, taken during 2007-2008..

 

The last photo of BD12, is at an awkward angle as it was taken from the cab of 08782, and as we were shunting into the billet bank, this was the best I could get showing how the floor had been removed.

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The photo of BD19 loaded with hot billets shows the later bolster stanchions that had just been fitted, and a new sheet steel wagon floor/bed.

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The original bolsters were made off billet offcuts and channel section uprights.

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Hope this helps. ?

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Edited July 18, 2022 by br2975

[LTSV]

Many thanks for the clarifications and the excellent photos. Interestingly, some of the BDA wagons involved were still listed as live on TOPS in 2013, albeit in stored pools.

 

The LTSV Rail Data website was created to enable the details and history of every BR wagon, coach etc to be captured. It is a very long term project but every little snippet helps. If you would like more details, or if you have information that could be of use, please visit the site at www.ltsv.com or contact me at tom 'at' ltsv.com.

 

Cheers,

 

Tom

 

[Mark Saunders]

3 hours ago, LTSV said:

Many thanks for the clarifications and the excellent photos. Interestingly, some of the BDA wagons involved were still listed as live on TOPS in 2013, albeit in stored pools.

 

 
This suggests that they may be hired rather than sold!

[br2975]

From my notes.

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A change in my place of work, and role, meant my visits to Tremorfa & the Castle Works decreased from about 2008.

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With the  contract change from EWS/DB to GBRf my visits ceased.

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I didn't update my sightings after about 2010.

[br2975]

As most of you will have gathered by now, Allied Steel & Wire would buy up any surplus or redundant wagons, and to coin an irritating modernism "re-purpose" them.

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A good example was the purchase a batch of 'Murgatroyd' bogie tanks in the 1990s which were initially rebuilt and renumbered into the 'BM' series (BM=Bar Mill) for the carriage of billets from the EAF (Electric Arc Furnace) billet bank to the Bar & Section Mill.

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Some, not all, were further converted by removing the bolsters and 'A Frame' stanchions, and fitting  transverse baulks of timber, for the carriage of export wire coils from the Cardiff Rod Mill to Cardiff Docks. The rebuilds were prefixed "MC" (MC=Merchant Coil).

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All were scrapped following ASW going into receivership, and prior to celsa (UK) taking over the works.

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The wagons invloved were as follows. 

BM507 BPCM77008 into ASW service 12/08/90

BM508 BPCM77029 to MC508

BM509 BPCM77004 to MC509 23/12/00

BM510 BPCM77010 into ASW service 05/08/91 to MC510 17/11/00

BM511 BPCM77028 

BM512 BPCM77037 into ASW service 05/08/91 to MC512 27/11/00

BM513 BPCM77011 16/08/91

BM514 BPCM77036

BM515 BPCM77012 into ASW service 03/09/91 to MC515 16/08/00

BM516 BPCM77009 12/09/91

BM517 BPCM77032 to MC517

BM518 BPCM77040 to MC518

BM519 BPCM77041 17/10/91 fitted ‘A’ frames

BM520 BPCM77042 17/10/91

[br2975]

ASW No. BM519 ( former  BPCM77041 ) seen on 'The Prairie' at Tremorfa during the early 1990s, complete with billet load.

[hmrspaul]

On 22/07/2022 at 23:18, br2975 said:

As most of you will have gathered by now, Allied Steel & Wire would buy up any surplus or redundant wagons, and to coin an irritating modernism "re-purpose" them.

.

A good example was the purchase a batch of 'Murgatroyd' bogie tanks in the 1990s which were initially rebuilt and renumbered into the 'BM' series (BM=Bar Mill) for the carriage of billets from the EAF (Electric Arc Furnace) billet bank to the Bar & Section Mill.

.

Some, not all, were further converted by removing the bolsters and 'A Frame' stanchions, and fitting  transverse baulks of timber, for the carriage of export wire coils from the Cardiff Rod Mill to Cardiff Docks. The rebuilds were prefixed "MC" (MC=Merchant Coil).

.

All were scrapped following ASW going into receivership, and prior to celsa (UK) taking over the works.

.

The wagons invloved were as follows. 

BM507 BPCM77008 into ASW service 12/08/90

BM508 BPCM77029 to MC508

BM509 BPCM77004 to MC509 23/12/00

BM510 BPCM77010 into ASW service 05/08/91 to MC510 17/11/00

BM511 BPCM77028 

BM512 BPCM77037 into ASW service 05/08/91 to MC512 27/11/00

BM513 BPCM77011 16/08/91

BM514 BPCM77036

BM515 BPCM77012 into ASW service 03/09/91 to MC515 16/08/00

BM516 BPCM77009 12/09/91

BM517 BPCM77032 to MC517

BM518 BPCM77040 to MC518

BM519 BPCM77041 17/10/91 fitted ‘A’ frames

BM520 BPCM77042 17/10/91

 

 

 

 

Interesting to know what happened to them, A group of us spent a weekend measuring all 4 of the Murgatroyd tanks in original condition  Unfortunately, and unusually, a wet weekend in Cardiff

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bpcmchlorinetbv

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bpcmchlorinetbb

 

Fortunately, when we went back the following year to measure some other wagons inside the works the weather was more typical of Cardiff, even though only early March. 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/alliedsteelwire

 

Paul

 

[Ben86]

Fantastic information, I’ve just enjoyed reading through this thread and it’s given me lots of ideas for my own internal user wagons for my steel works shunting plank. I’m amazing how much variety there was in the fleet.

 

Many thanks 

 

Ben

Edited July 31, 2023 by Ben86