Single track level crossings - how did the gates work ? And other questions

[Stubby47]

Hi all.

If possible,  I'd like to find out how the gates were worked on a level crossing, where they had to be swung one at a time. 

 

Were there any worked by mechanical means, from the 'box ( big brown winding wheels) and if so was there some sort of linkage to swap gates?

 

TIA

 

Stu

Edited February 6, 2022 by Stubby47
Request for further info

[Michael Hodgson]

Usually gates that had to be swung one at a time were worked by pushing them.   

 

They could be worked by gatewheel using an escapement mechanism, but that was more complicated than simply driving all gates together.  So it was more usual to have four gates that didn't foul one another if you were going to use a wheel.  Wheels were usually only cost-justified  if the road and/or the railway were fairly busy. 

 

Note however that if the crossing is on a skew, even four gates of equal length could foul, so gates on unequal length might be used.  Also if the skew was great enough, even two gates would not foul.

 

Gatewheels weren't really standardised, there were a lot of variations.

 

The method of locking for manually operated gates could be a simple bolt into the ground, but often a Black's lock or similar which had keys which could be removed from the gate and taken to the lever frame to release interlocked signals.

For wheel operated gates, there were usually rising catches in the roadway to hold the gate in position (worked with the wheel), and separate locking levers in the lever frame. 

Pedestrian wickets sometimes free, sometimes worked by one lever for both sides of the line, sometimes by two separate levers (or four if there was a footpath on both sides of the road).  Wickets were not generally interlocked with signals.

[The Stationmaster]

Stu, I think you can safely do it either way but on the sort of line you are modelling the gates would almost inevitably have been worked by the simple expedient of walking to them and swinging them by hand if we are talking about a level crossing remote from a signal box.   If the crossing is adjacent to a signal box the gates could conceivably be worked from the box by a gate wheel although arranging signgle gates to swing separately would have cost more.

[Stubby47]

Thanks Michael, very helpful. 

 

Just need to find a working 4mm gate person...

[Stubby47]

Thanks Mike.

 

This info is actually for yet another layout, as yet under strict wraps...

[Michael Hodgson]

 

 

10 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

Thanks Michael, very helpful. 

 

Just need to find a working 4mm gate person...

 

These are usually modelled by using two servo motors, so it's easy to work it from a panel.   

The problem of modelling the gatekeeper is no different from the problem of loading passengers into the coaches!

 

As a rule of thumb, if it is a public road, the gates would swing  across the line, if it's a private road they swing way from the line. There's always exceptions.

 

Winding wheels aren't necessarily brown (though locking levers and wicket levers are) - here's Grosmont on the NYMR.  Two separate wheels, one pair of gates completely closes the road, the other moves away from the line 

[Stubby47]

Thanks again.

 

Coincidentally, servo motors for moving the gates is exactly the option I will be taking.

[kingfisher9147]

For figures, modelu or monty models. Working a single gate crossing big or small can be very dangerous. Some don't all have wheels to work them, some were a catch and lock. Farm Cross gates or private people would either leave the gate open or just look one way not the other. Even dangerous for signalman or gate keeper dealing with both rail and road transport. I have done gate duty not a nice job when people try to race the gate. 

[Stubby47]

For static models, yes, Modelu would be my preferred choice.

 

Thanks for the extra info on other sorts of crossing gates. As I understand things, these would normally be open to rail and closed to traffic, and only opened,  away from the line, when required. 

Having a model version of these operational would be less convincing, unless a vehicle could be made to cross the line.

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

For static models, yes, Modelu would be my preferred choice.

 

Thanks for the extra info on other sorts of crossing gates. As I understand things, these would normally be open to rail and closed to traffic, and only opened,  away from the line, when required. 

Having a model version of these operational would be less convincing, unless a vehicle could be made to cross the line.

Yes, farm crossings were normally supposed to be kept closed to road traffic, usually with cast iron notices about a fine (40 shillings) for failure to close the gates after use, or for trespass.    This tended to be difficult to enforce especially at harvest time, as farm labourers tended to leave the gates open as they had to keep crossing and re-crossing the line.

 

But originally all highway level crossings were also kept closed to road traffic, opened only when a vehicle needed to cross, assuming it was safe to do so at the time - Rule 99.  Where was no signalbox by the crossing the railway was legally obliged to employ a crossing keeper, generally provided with a cottage (much the same as lock keepers on canals).  In days before workmen's compensation schemes and pensions were general, this low-paid job was sometimes given to a footplateman who had been injured on duty and was now only capable of light duties; and often married couples would be employed, working alternate 12 hours shifts; such practices stopped when it became impossible to fill the posts, roughly WW2 I think. 

 

But the Minister of Transport could authorise the default position to be gates closed across the line, and swung when a train was coming.  This was authorised on a case by case basis.  As road traffic increased, more and more crossings were given this dispensation, to the extent that there are now very few "Rule 99 crossings" remaining.

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, kingfisher9147 said:

For figures, modelu or monty models. Working a single gate crossing big or small can be very dangerous. Some don't all have wheels to work them, some were a catch and lock. Farm Cross gates or private people would either leave the gate open or just look one way not the other. Even dangerous for signalman or gate keeper dealing with both rail and road transport. I have done gate duty not a nice job when people try to race the gate. 

We need to distinguish here between statutory level. crossings, which nowadays is covered by a Level Crossing Order - where a  public road crosses the railway (as explained above in Michael Hodgson's post) and Occupation and Accommodation crossings.

 

 The latter two categories were not statutory level crossings and were/are not covered by any of the legislation which applied/s to those crossings.  They were only covered by statute to the extent that their provision would have been required in the Parliamentary Powers to construct the railway where it would divide land under one ownership thus preventing access between previously adjacent fields etc ( = accommodation crossing) or it the railway would cut access by a private road or track to a private property (which might include a small group of houses) = occupation crossing.   The only provision required at such crossings was ordinary agricultural field type gates or equivalent which must open away from the railway, a notice requiring the gates to be closed after use and, (usually) the provision of 'Whistle' boards to warn of the approach of trains.  Gradually over the past 40 or so years while many such crossings have been closed (they are not permitted where the line speed is 100mph or greater) many have required more sophisticated equipment - the most common being a telephone to contact the nearest signal box but some occupation crossing have even acquired miniature red/green warning lights hence some peopel have come to regard them in the same way as 'proper' level crossings.

[Michael Hodgson]

21 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

We need to distinguish here between statutory level. crossings, which nowadays is covered by a Level Crossing Order - where a  public road crosses the railway (as explained above in Michael Hodgson's post) and Occupation and Accommodation crossings.

 

This distinction could in some cases be messy - for example you might have an occupation crossing and a footpath/bridleway crossing in the same place as a private crossing - so there could be outward opening gates to let the residents drive across, but the public only had a right of way on foot or horseback.

 

At Funtham's Lane near Whittlesea, there were a couple of accidents at what had originally been a private occupation crossing with the usual gates for farm traffic but because of  a change in land ownership & use served a brickworks off the A605 & was used by heavy lorries.  The railway had a lot of trouble trying to get the brickworks to make lorry drivers close gates behind them.  It became the first CCTV level crossing in the country, originally supervised by nearby Kings Dyke signalbox (now gone), and the road is now considered a public highway.

[The Stationmaster]

Yes on one of my past patches I had an occupation crossing which was CCTV controlled although that partly related to linespeed - the amount of usage was pretty low.

[Stubby47]

Michael @Michael Hodgson & Mike @The Stationmaster,

Widening the subject matter slightly, how were points moved for a cross-over ? One at a time, or both from the same lever ?

[Michael Hodgson]

9 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

Michael @Michael Hodgson & Mike @The Stationmaster,

Widening the subject matter slightly, how were points moved for a cross-over ? One at a time, or both from the same lever ?

As a general rule, both by one lever.

However, there were situations where that would be inappropriate and one point had to be moved before the other.

 

PS exit from a goods siding (which would be protected by a trap) would work like a crossover, both the siding point and the trap on the one lever.

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by Michael Hodgson

[bécasse]

Some pre-grouping companies, notably the LNWR, preferred to work the points at each end of a crossover from separate levers. Sometimes doing so simplified the interlocking.

[uax6]

On 02/02/2022 at 12:26, Michael Hodgson said:

 

 

At Funtham's Lane near Whittlesea, there were a couple of accidents at what had originally been a private occupation crossing with the usual gates for farm traffic but because of  a change in land ownership & use served a brickworks off the A605 & was used by heavy lorries.  The railway had a lot of trouble trying to get the brickworks to make lorry drivers close gates behind them.  It became the first CCTV level crossing in the country, originally supervised by nearby Kings Dyke signalbox (now gone), and the road is now considered a public highway.

 

Kings Dyke Box ain't closed. Our roster shows theres a Bobby on duty there this second! 

 

Also I was under the impression that Blacks Locks are those that are bolted to the gate post, and locked and released via the use of a lever in the box (like I have here at Littleport) whereas the ones with removable keys are known as Key Locks.... (well thats what we call them round these 'er parts..).

 

Andy G