RMweb Premium keefer Posted May 18, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 18, 2023 (edited) According to the 1986 Platform 5 book and @BernardTPM's post above, the TSOT with normal toilet window were: 6501 (ex-TSO 5547) 6503 (5510) 6505 (5553) 6508 (5511) 6509 (5513) 6510 (5518) 6512 (5534) 6513 (5538) 6514 (5528) 6515 (5556) 6516 (5551) 6517 (5499) 6518 (5503) 6521 (5558) 6526 (5537) In other words, half of the Mk2c TSOT had the normal toilet window. I didn't actually realise for a long while that there were 2c TSO/TSOT like this, I always though all 2c had the small 'a/c-style' window + vent! The 1988 P5 book has only 6500/6502 in NSE livery (that's the latest book I have) Edited May 18, 2023 by keefer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 It varies according to type too. All of the Mk2c BSOs and FOs had the later style while the FKs and BFKs were part and part like the TSOs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted May 19, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 19, 2023 I THINK the later 2C were to be labelled 2D orignally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 Almost the opposite from contemporary accounts, the Mk.2c were originally called Mk.2b: Modern Railways Jan. '68 "a second batch of 250* will be started in January for completion by early 1969. Of this latter 38 corridor-firsts, nine corridor brake first and 64 open seconds will be of the MkIIb pattern. The chief MkIIb innovation will be a wider. wrap-around exterior door; the Mk.IIb cars may also incorporate full air-conditioning." So at that stage all the coaches with the wide end doors would have been 'IIb'. In the April 1969 issue "The Ministry of Transport has approved a 1969-71 building programme of 600 new MkIIb coaches. - - The first batch of the new coaches will have pressure heating and ventilation, but again all are being designed for possible installation of air-conditioning." This 600 would include the coaches that would later be both MkIIc and IId. The first mention of MkIIc is in April 1969 issue "The first 350 BR standard coaches with air-conditioning will be allocated to the Eastern and London Midland Regions. Designated Mk.IIC, they will go into production at Derby this autumn," So at this point what are now 2c are still 2b and what will be Mk2d are 2c. Underlining the former point, the new coaches for NIR are shown in the Sept. 1970 issue. The lowered ceiling and twin rows of lights clearly make them Mk.2c type but they are described as "Mk II B". By the time the actual air-conditioned coaches appeared (Sept '71 issue) they were called Mk IId, with the first 250 of the 600 authorised in 1969 retrospectively becoming Mk IIc. * Mk.II type, i.e. integral 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macforrest Posted May 22, 2023 Author Share Posted May 22, 2023 On 18/05/2023 at 23:25, keefer said: According to the 1986 Platform 5 book and @BernardTPM's post above, the TSOT with normal toilet window were: 6501 (ex-TSO 5547) 6503 (5510) 6505 (5553) 6508 (5511) 6509 (5513) 6510 (5518) 6512 (5534) 6513 (5538) 6514 (5528) 6515 (5556) 6516 (5551) 6517 (5499) 6518 (5503) 6521 (5558) 6526 (5537) In other words, half of the Mk2c TSOT had the normal toilet window. I didn't actually realise for a long while that there were 2c TSO/TSOT like this, I always though all 2c had the small 'a/c-style' window + vent! The 1988 P5 book has only 6500/6502 in NSE livery (that's the latest book I have) And typically I randomly chose 6502.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macforrest Posted May 22, 2023 Author Share Posted May 22, 2023 Some 'small work items' over last week..... having received the TT scale Buffet/Restaurant pack from Railtec I set about cutting and painting some Plastruct strip to fabricate the non-trolley bay side window boards. Gloss black mixed with a small quantity of matt brown created (unsurprisingly!) a browny-black colour for the melamine or heavily varnished wood effect. Decals applied and pair of boards ready for one nearly finished and one not yet started conversions. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macforrest Posted July 25, 2023 Author Share Posted July 25, 2023 It's taken a long time to get to this point..... but finally fitted the 'Buffet' board on the inside of the coach window. Prior to re-assembly of the body and chassis, I filled the battery compartments with 'liquid lead'. As with the Mk2f, this has added enough weight to give the vehicle a more 'substantial' feel. Masking tape was applied over the filled holes and the proprietary steel weight put back in place before the seating insert was bonded in place with a dab of epoxy adhesive at either end. This seems to hold everything in place pretty well. Photo of completed TSOT to follow....! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macforrest Posted July 29, 2023 Author Share Posted July 29, 2023 The finished TSOT.... 13 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caxton Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 And that, my friend, looks absolutely lovely! 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macforrest Posted December 27, 2023 Author Share Posted December 27, 2023 On 04/05/2023 at 17:52, Macforrest said: As if that project hasn't been put to one side for long enough.... I'm going to go back to basics as a bit of a refresher and tackle another Mk3 from the 'archive', as much to see how the Laserglaze works out on this Lima buffet It's been a while since I stated my intention to start this next mini-project, but I managed to find a whole spare hour over Christmas to take the first steps on this to hopefully get me kick-started to progress a couple more coaches.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macforrest Posted December 27, 2023 Author Share Posted December 27, 2023 So..... the vehicle has been broken down into it's constituent parts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chris116 Posted December 27, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 27, 2023 What are you planning to do with this coach? You previous jobs have been impressive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempfix Rich Papper Posted December 27, 2023 Tempfix Share Posted December 27, 2023 Following your latest development with great interest. I have a rake exactly the same running with some of the newer Hornby power cars. The Lima are so smooth running and already couple quite close so I'm loath to get newer ones when a few small tweaks to these would make me just as happy. Best of luck with it (I too have only managed to find about an hour so far this holiday!) Rich 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macforrest Posted December 28, 2023 Author Share Posted December 28, 2023 18 hours ago, Chris116 said: What are you planning to do with this coach? You previous jobs have been impressive Hi Chris, just some simple improvements along the same lines as the TS I tweaked back in Feb 2022.... wheels/disc brakes, buffers, painted interior (maybe some modification to the buffet counter) and fitting Laserglaze. This will be the interesting bit to see if the results are as good with the tiny window apertures as they were on a standard Mk3 passenger coach. I find that a simpler task like this one is good for getting re-acqainted with the tools and materials after a long break!! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macforrest Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share Posted December 31, 2023 Started with the glazing as this is the simplest of the jobs...maybe. The difficult bit looking at the parts as they come out of the packet are the two narrow windows behind the buffet 'counter'. The first option will be to have a go at paring back the central pillar of the window frame and fitting the glaze behind. If this doesn't work it it will need to be cut away completely and painted on to the new glazing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macforrest Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share Posted December 31, 2023 Turns out the easiest thing to do is to cut each of the pieces into two, carefully file and sand the longer half and fit as four separate windows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessy1692 Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 On 27/12/2023 at 11:57, Macforrest said: So..... the vehicle has been broken down into it's constituent parts Apologies for a slight diversion away from coaches, I spy 3 PWA's loitering there, just wondering if you have plans to re bogie them? Stenson Models used to do the correct Fast Freight Gloucester bogies but they are no longer produced since Wills Wagons took over, aparantly 3d printed options are out there but not seen any used as yet. Iv a couple to do to add to the rake so be interesting to hear your plans. Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macforrest Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 On 31/12/2023 at 18:39, jessy1692 said: Apologies for a slight diversion away from coaches, I spy 3 PWA's loitering there, just wondering if you have plans to re bogie them? Stenson Models used to do the correct Fast Freight Gloucester bogies but they are no longer produced since Wills Wagons took over, aparantly 3d printed options are out there but not seen any used as yet. Iv a couple to do to add to the rake so be interesting to hear your plans. Cheers James Hi James, no plans to re-bogie, though if a 3D-printed option became available it may be tempting. To be honest, I've had these sat here for ages since I started removing the buffers and they are just gathering dust. Still waiting for someone to produce a rectangular buffer back-plate.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessy1692 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 29 minutes ago, Macforrest said: Hi James, no plans to re-bogie, though if a 3D-printed option became available it may be tempting. To be honest, I've had these sat here for ages since I started removing the buffers and they are just gathering dust. Still waiting for someone to produce a rectangular buffer back-plate.... I'll keep my eyes out then, I think Shapeway do some but look rather expensive and not as good as the Stenson cast ones. If I find some ill let you know. As for buffer back plates, I just kept mine simple and re used the original buffers with other mods. By the time I'd done 2 curtain sided ones I wasn't bothered about buffers! Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macforrest Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 I've progressed to painting the interior, ideally this needs to be refitted before the Laserglaze is installed on both sides as the clearance is reduced due to the thickness of the glazing units. I've coloured the seats in a matt fawn with a satin cream to represent the melamine tables. I'm assuming the armrests would be a similar colour to the seats, but can't actually find any reference pictures of a first class restaurant of this era. I referred to a colour picture of the then new Mk4 interior, which would be the right time period but may be completely incorrect! I would be grateful if anyone has photo's they would be willing to share! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macforrest Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 Another small task completed.... Lima wheels removed to be replaced by Gibson wheels. Before fitting, Stenson 9.5mm etched disc brake inserts were attached, a few drops of superglue spread over the back of the discs is enough to get a good fix. Careful placement is required to ensure they are not off centre! I think a picture paints a thousand words about how much this easy mod improves the look of the bogies.... 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macforrest Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 (edited) Some work to prepare the roof for re-fitting; disc cutter on the mini-drill makes short work of thick plastic that forms the glazing. Cutting just above the 'windows' leaves enough of an overlap to secure the roof without have to use adhesive and does not interfere with the Laserglaze. Edited February 17 by Macforrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macforrest Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 (edited) Some further painting of the interior has been completed just to hide the expanse of bright orange plastic. Not entirely sure of the colour the buffet counter would have been during the period modelled. I referenced a couple of photos from another topic on here which showed first class seats as fawny grey with pink flecks. Whether this would also apply to restaurant vehicles I don't know, but I've not had any success finding pictures of the prototype. Anyway, I hope it gives the right feel to the vehicle.... Glazing on the corridor side has not been fitted yet as the interior was a tight fit with only one side done, so I opted to put that in place first then fit the remaining glazing. This wasn't the case for the open coach which was my first conversion. Edited February 17 by Macforrest 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macforrest Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 (edited) Before I seal the (rather old!) Fox decals with a coat of satin varnish, the question of what type of vehicle this is needs to be answered! The Lima model is numbered 40619, which is listed (1990) as a TRFM, converted from a TRFB. I think this has the correct window arrangement for this, but I'm no expert.... The close up of the removable coach ends doesn't do the paint finish any favours. but does show the intricate moulding detail applied to the door latches etc, which goes to show just how good this model was for the time despite other shortcomings that often get mentioned. Edited February 17 by Macforrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieGuyRob Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Wasn't 40619 converted for use on the Master Cutler, then passed over to cross country. I stand to be corrected.,,,, 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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