Improving the look of 1980s RTR coaches

[Macforrest]

 

On 15/05/2022 at 16:34, MJI said:

With the Aircon stock it is quite annoying in one way that BSOs were rarely seen in WR sets, yet BFKs were almost commonplace. So most of mine are converted 2 of them along with FOs became 2 BFK and a TSO, another a 2C BSO.

 

The next set I will be doing needs 6 TSOs I currently have 3 plus 3 halves. I am happy to knock up a 2E from two BSOs and the three TSOs will be next to each other, but are 2D 2E 2F in that order.

 

I do like to see people getting the best from these rather than trade them in.

 

Sounds like you have plenty on your 'to do' list, should keep you busy!

 

Whilst there are some very good models available now from Bachmann and the slightly improved Hornby Mk2fs, I much prefer to try out my modelling skills by working on what I already have. Otherwise it just becomes an exercise in how deep you wallet goes.

Even though I have supplemented my original pile of stock with several e-bay purchases (paying only second hand and not 'rare - collectible' prices) it's only cost the equivalent of a couple of Bachmanns to extend each of my rakes by two coaches! I'm also learning stuff from those with much more knowledge of prototypes and modelling techniques than myself and although the cost of the Laserglaze and other detailing parts, paints and decals obviously increases the cost somewhat and this to me is what the hobby is about and not just how may super-detailed out of the box products you can afford.... I don't expect everyone to agree of course!

 

Thanks to all for your ongoing interest and suggestions.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Macforrest

[MJI]

31 minutes ago, Macforrest said:

 

 

Sounds like you have plenty on your 'to do' list, should keep you busy!

 

Whilst there are some very good models available now from Bachmann and the slightly improved Hornby Mk2fs, I much prefer to try out my modelling skills by working on what I already have. Otherwise it just becomes a exercise in how deep you wallet goes.

Even though I have supplemented my original pile of stock with several e-bay purchases (paying only second hand and not 'rare - collectible' prices) it's only cost the equivalent of a couple of Bachmanns to extend each of my rakes by two coaches! I'm also learning stuff from those with much more knowledge of prototypes and modelling techniques than myself and although the cost of the Laserglaze and other detailing parts, paints and decals obviously increases the cost somewhat and this to me is what the hobby is about and not just how may super-detailed out of the box products you can afford.... I don't expect everyone to agree of course!

 

Thanks to all for your ongoing interest and suggestions.

 

 

Much to busy it seems.

 

Was soldering up a Comet kit this weekend as well, first coat of blue on my Swindon 120 for paint go 2

[Macforrest]

The next project is to ‘convert’ a Lima Mk2b to a Mk2c TSOT. Most West of England expresses carried a trolley ‘buffet’, usually placed between the two BFKs of a 9-coach train. As I’m building up two rakes, I will need two of these so will do it as a pair for ease.

 

Firstly, I have noticed a couple of things about the prototype and the Lima model; unlike Lima’s Mk2f, the distributor valve bracket is not part of the moulding, so I will have to fabricate these myself. From what little evidence of this type of coach I can gather, it appears that many Mk2cs displayed their number and NSE branding the opposite way round to the Mk2b’s, or certainly to the way round Lima have printed them, so I’m going to have a go at remedying this on at least one. There are probably numerous other differences (including roof vents) but the aim is to make it recognisable as a TSOT rather than fully prototype accurate.

[Macforrest]

First step as always is removal of the coach end mouldings, this time including the jumper cables!  Before fitting of brass handrails and lamp brackets, I decided to do the window filing, necessary for fitting the SE Finecast glazing as the frames taper inwards. This avoids damaging the added detailing and also means I only have to clean the bodyshell once.

[BernardTPM]

Quite a few early NSE coach repaints had the numbers at the left-hand end and the NSE branding to the right. These are likely to be coaches with white cantrails too, a feature of early NSE repaints. The contemporary Platform 5 coach books had photos so you might be able to find some correct numbers.

[Halvarras]

On ‎15‎/‎05‎/‎2022 at 16:34, MJI said:

 

I do like to see people getting the best from these rather than trade them in.

 

These Airfix Mark 2Ds were too modern for me but my son had some in a set and I was impressed at the build quality - they have a real solid feel to them. In the early 1980s a friend asked me to convert a BSO into a Scottish DBSO - although not my chosen period I was game for anything back then - and in the process of drilling and filing out the cab end windows discovered just how solid they were - the plastic was VERY thick, so it was not something I'd attempt again! He also requested a Class 47/7 to go with it, and Hornby's was the only game in town (but not for much longer.....) At the time there were few if any detailing parts available so it was very much DIY. 

The small depot diorama was thrown together in 6 weeks during Oct/Nov 1982 so these pics (photos of photos)must date from 1983/4 I reckon (OT, the real 55021 was never painted up in such 'railtour livery' but those were the plates I had, so......back then I could paint the York crests above the number with a sharpened matchstick and the naked eye - something else I wouldn't bother attempting now, sadly!!)

[Macforrest]

Now the detail has been added (folding brass lamp brackets is still my least favourite activity though I now have a hold’n’fold which helps) a coat of grey primer was applied to the coach ends followed, when dry, by satin black and gloss varnish to provide a good surface for decals to adhere to.

Once thoroughly dry, C1, warning flash and ‘AG2C’ decals were applied. There isn’t the space to include the ‘Electric Heated’ legend due to the tank filler being moulded in a slightly lower position than the prototype. There is space however for ‘lifted’ dates, but the standard Railtec ones are dated about 12 years too late! A coat of satin varnish completed this step.

[Macforrest]

Back to the underside, I have fabricated air distributor valve brackets from plasticard, these were fixed in place with liquid poly, and cast valve and air tank added. These provide just enough extra detail without too much effort. Buffer beams were cut away and a ‘split’ one added (to accomodate Kadee buckeye couplings) from 60thou x 5.8mm plastic strip, which is pretty much correct scale depth for Mk2 buffer beams. MJT retracted buffers were added, located in 1.5mm holes drilled in the new beam checking for correct centre spacing with a digital calliper.

Once assembled, a coat of primer then satin black aerosol finish the task.

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Macforrest

[Macforrest]

SE Finecast flushglazing now fitted, having filed out all of the window and droplight openings - this is the most time consuming part of this project! No smoking decals were added; again these are the Railtec reverse printed ones which are crisply reproduced and really enhance the look of the model. In operation these coaches had a red buffet stripe over the first window on either side at the trolley bay end, so this was painted on with a brush (not worth setting up the airbrush) in gloss red. A satin finish might be more suitable....

The new numbers and NSE branding have also been applied, straight onto the original paintwork, a coat of satin varnish applied to seal them and this also does a good job of blending them with the factory finish. Vehicle numbers are 6502 & 6517. Again, there are some differences in where numbers appeared on the prototypes; some were positioned centrally under the window and some aligned with the edge of the window frame closest to the door. A 1990 'Platform 5' photo shows a TSOT with the latter, though I have no reference for the specific vehicle being modelled (6502).

Edited June 1, 2022 by Macforrest

[jessy1692]

3 hours ago, Macforrest said:

SE Finecast flushglazing now fitted, having filed out all of the window and droplight openings - this is the most time consuming part of this project! No smoking decals were added; again these are the Railtec reverse printed ones which are crisply reproduced and really enhance the look of the model. In operation these coaches had a red buffet stripe over the first window on either side at the trolley bay end, so this was painted on with a brush (not worth setting up the airbrush) in gloss red. A satin finish might be more suitable....

The new numbers and NSE branding have also been applied, straight onto the original paintwork, a coat of satin varnish applied to seal them and this also does a good job of blending them with the factory finish. Vehicle numbers are 6502 & 6517. Again, there are some differences in where numbers appeared on the prototypes; some were positioned centrally under the window and some aligned with the edge of the window frame closest to the door. A 1990 'Platform 5' photo shows a TSOT with the latter, though I have no reference for the specific vehicle being modelled (6502).

Looking very smart, I'm nearly about to embark on a big flush glaze session  with my mk1s and 2ds.

 

Good to a see a few UKF vans in the background too!

Cheers

James

[Macforrest]

10 minutes ago, jessy1692 said:

Looking very smart, I'm nearly about to embark on a big flush glaze session  with my mk1s and 2ds.

 

 

Good to a see a few UKF vans in the background too!

Cheers

James

Quite a task ahead for you with the flushglazing but made a lot easier by how easy it is to fit Laserglaze - really great product! I'm sure these will look really good.

I bought the pallet vans as I'd circled these in the 1989 Lima catalogue!! Some minor mods (wheels, Accurascale sprung buffers) should have been straightforward but can't get hold of etched rectangular buffer backplates anywhere, so on hold for now.

[jessy1692]

3 hours ago, Macforrest said:

Quite a task ahead for you with the flushglazing but made a lot easier by how easy it is to fit Laserglaze - really great product! I'm sure these will look really good.

I bought the pallet vans as I'd circled these in the 1989 Lima catalogue!! Some minor mods (wheels, Accurascale sprung buffers) should have been straightforward but can't get hold of etched rectangular buffer backplates anywhere, so on hold for now.

Oh yes lots still to do with my stuff but moving on slowly at the mo.

 

For the PWA's one of the best upgrades is the fast freight bogies from Stenson Models, excellent mouldings and a doddle to build. You can do a fair bit with the basic model

 

Plenty have been tarted up on here, Jon Hall also sells the trusses if you fancy a different option too.

Cheers

James

[Rich Papper]

On 27/05/2022 at 10:40, Macforrest said:

Now the detail has been added (folding brass lamp brackets is still my least favourite activity though I now have a hold’n’fold which helps) a coat of grey primer was applied to the coach ends followed, when dry, by satin black and gloss varnish to provide a good surface for decals to adhere to.

 

A really inspirational thread thank you. I'd recommend staples for lamp brackets. I use regular office size ones cut in half for tall ones like those above first generation DMU buffers. You can get some surprisingly small staples that would suit this, but you can always snip larger ones down and even the smallest packet will give you enough for a lifetime.

Rich

[Macforrest]

Some of the other modifications that differentiate a TSOT from a standard TSO are an obscured window on the trolley bay side, partially covered up to the window lights by a panel which displays a 'Buffet' legend and on the opposite side a wooden board fixed across the window also displaying a ‘Buffet’ legend. From memory, this board was heavily varnished plywood but I might be wrong in my recollection! These will be easy enough to replicate once I can find some white Buffet decals without having to also purchase a whole sheet of other decals I really don't need....

Railtec produce a reverse printed representation of the board but I want to do it the hard way.

 

In the meantime, I thought I might put some effort into making this look a more convincing conversion as opposed to a full passenger coach made up to look like a TSOT from the outside, so rather than retain the seating in the buffet section, I removed a pair of seats and tables from the insert using a razor saw and using the interior ends and the curve of the inside of the roof as a template, cut two compartment dividers from plasticard. A section of ‘floor’ was inserted between these to cover the holes left by the removed seating. The trolley bay was built up from more plastic strip using drawings found online for reference and with the seating masked off, given a coat of grey aerosol primer. This works well to fill any gaps between sections of plasticard.

The dividing sections were painted by hand brush in a creamy satin paint to try to recreate a melamine panel effect and the top of the serving 'bar' will be a glossy dark brown finish.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Macforrest

[Clive martin]

On 17/05/2022 at 20:32, Halvarras said:

 

These Airfix Mark 2Ds were too modern for me but my son had some in a set and I was impressed at the build quality - they have a real solid feel to them. In the early 1980s a friend asked me to convert a BSO into a Scottish DBSO - although not my chosen period I was game for anything back then - and in the process of drilling and filing out the cab end windows discovered just how solid they were - the plastic was VERY thick, so it was not something I'd attempt again! He also requested a Class 47/7 to go with it, and Hornby's was the only game in town (but not for much longer.....) At the time there were few if any detailing parts available so it was very much DIY. 

The small depot diorama was thrown together in 6 weeks during Oct/Nov 1982 so these pics (photos of photos)must date from 1983/4 I reckon (OT, the real 55021 was never painted up in such 'railtour livery' but those were the plates I had, so......back then I could paint the York crests above the number with a sharpened matchstick and the naked eye - something else I wouldn't bother attempting now, sadly!!)

 

[Clive martin]

I love these photographs reminds me how we used to do things,i remember in the mid 80s a bit of an explosion of detailing parts  ,in suffolk we used to have a great shop in Stowmarket mid suffolk models they used to stock loads of detailing parts and nameplates,etc something the model railway retailers just dont do any more,do you remember the Howes of Oxford bible! I am enjoying the excelent work you are doing updateing older stock ,something i am doing quite a bit of again and enjoying .

[MJI]

I buy Airfix TSOs when avaiable only need 2 now, or a couple of BSOs, got 4 for TSOing, may produce another couple of BFKs as well.

 

So far I have made from Airfix 2Ds

 

2C BSO

2D TSO

2D TSOT

2D FK

2D BFK

2E TSO

2E FO

2F TSO (current job)

2F FO

 

I have done the 2E TSO both ways.

[Wummyock]

On 09/03/2022 at 09:40, MJI said:

 

Easier to drop Replica under, done this with some Lima as well.

May I ask how hard is it to fit Replica bogies to Lima Mk2b's. Is there anything out of the ordinary to do? Would you have any pics at all of what (if anything) does need to be done? Thanks a lot in advance for any advice.

[MJI]

Just used bits of plasticard

[Wummyock]

48 minutes ago, MJI said:

Just used bits of plasticard

Could you expand on that please? What do you do with these bits of plasticard?

[Macforrest]

A bit of a long break and a tiny amount of progress made on the TSOT.... too many things on the go at the same time!

 

I finally managed to get hold of some 'Buffet' legends of the correct size for the obscured window on the trolley bay side. I painted a spare SE Finecast window moulding in the same colour as the coach bodysides and to this I applied the waterslide decal. This was then pressed into another (clear) window moulding already fitted into the window aperture. This gives the impression of reverse-printed lettering on the inside of the window!

[Macforrest]

As if that project hasn't been put to one side for long enough.... I'm going to go back to basics as a bit of a refresher and tackle another Mk3 from the 'archive', as much to see how the Laserglaze works out on this Lima buffet

[Macforrest]

I managed to get sidetracked back to the previous project whilst looking for 10 minute wins; I also managed to find myself a whole new 'problem' by chancing upon a black & white image of the exact vehicle I'm modelling. This shows the toilet/store room  compartment windows of vehicle 6502 to be similar to those of the air conditioned Mk2 stock. I was fairly sure I had seen a less clear picture confirming this before, but had found a better one which shows windows with the vent grille and it was this that I based my modifications on....

 

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Macforrest

[Macforrest]

One solution would be to cut out the window detail entirely, cut away the frame detail and fill part of the aperture and fit a Mk2d-f toilet window along with a replacement etched frame. This entails quite a bit of fiddly work with plenty of opportunity to screw it up so instead, I've opted for a compromise by removing the grille but retaining the window bar. The resulting opening will be filled with a window moulding for the brake corridor vehicles which is included in the SE Finecast packs for Mk2a/b/c.

[BernardTPM]

Some Mk.2c vehicles had the earlier style toilet windows, some a revised, single plain window, similar to those that would appear on Mk.2d/e/f coaches, with a lower top edge. Obviously the TSO(T) coaches were conversions of both types.

Mk.2c TSOs 5498 to 5561 had the old style toilet windows, 5562 to 5615 the later style, but you'd need to cross reference to the new TSO(T) numbers to sort which had which.