How did grounded coach bodies get to site

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I was thinking how did grounded coach bodies get to site, were they taken to the station the body lifted off and the underframe taken back to the work to be recycled or was the body removed at a works and the body transported to site on a low wagon of some kind.

 

David

[Wickham Green too]

From what I heard from owners when researching bodies in the North East of Scotland, they were taken by road by contractors - from Inverurie in this case ( the name Reid comes to mind ). Short vehicles were taken on a single wagon ( horse drawn / steam / motor ) and bogie coaches were cut in half and taken on two separate wagons or ( steam / motor ) wagon and trailer. Offloading involved hand jacks and barrels - though I've never sussed out exact details ! ....... Oh for a photo or two !

[Wheatley]

The ex GNR royal carriage which ended up as a church at Gatehouse of Fleet travelled on its own bogies and was lifted off by Hurlford's 30 ton breakdown crane. The bogies and frame were supposed to go back with the crane as scrap, but there was some issue with burning through bolts so the frame was left attached and only the bogies were recovered. If I remember  where I read that I'll post  a link. 

 

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/30/552/

[IWCR]

I have seen a photo of bodies waiting to leave Ryde St Johns on the Isle of Wight in the 1930's, they had been placed on timber wagons which would have been pulled by horses or a tractor of some sort. These wagons comprised a wheelset fixed to a pole which had a further wheelset which was attached anywhere along the poles length as required.  Known sites on the Island that bodies were sold from include Ryde St Johns Yard, Newport Freshwater Yard and St Helens Quay,  all main goods yards.  For an additional cost the carriage would be worked to a siding of your choice before being dismounted.  Bogie carriages were often cut in half to aid transport but occasionally moved complete.

 

Pete

[pH]

1 hour ago, Wheatley said:

The bogies and frame were supposed to go back with the crane as scrap, but there was some issue with burning through bolts so the frame was left attached and only the bogies were recovered. If I remember  where I read that I'll post  a link. 

In ‘The Port Road’ by Andrew Swan, the author says that there was concern on site that the body would not be strong enough to be lifted by itself and might break its back if they tried. Permission was requested and given to leave the body attached to the frame and remove and recover only the bogies.

[Wheatley]

That was it, thanks (should have looked there first !) I knew I hadn't imagined it. 

[Compound2632]

 

[Embedded link to catalogue image of Midland Railway Study Centre Item 30162.]

[Wickham Green too]

Would be interesting to know who that was sent to ! - the reference to possible delivery off the Midland suggests it is a standard letter used for all applications of this nature ....... and, of course, many destinations 'other than on the Midland' would soon join those which were as part of the new LMS - probably before any delivery was made !

Edited March 20, 2022 by Wickham Green too

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Would be interesting to know who that was sent to ! 

 

I agree it looks like a standard letter. The addressee is at the foot of the page - Rollesby nr. Gt Yarmouth, so presumably delivery would be to the nearest M&GN station - Great Ormesby?

[Steamport Southport]

The date is interesting. Getting rid of old stock before Grouping?

 

 

 

Jason

[Compound2632]

33 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

The date is interesting. Getting rid of old stock before Grouping?

 

Next time I go to the Study Centre I must have a look at the list on the second page - the catalogue blurb says "An appendix lists 27 vehicles which were available for sale at that time, including their types, sizes and running numbers. Majority are 43 foot bogie third passenger coaches, but some goods stock is included." The 43 ft thirds were built in the 1880s so would be life expired, almost certainly already on the duplicate list. I'm not sure that the grouping in particular would have been the stimulus for disposal, since if duplicate stock they would not be contributing to the valuation of the company. Around this time or earlier - shortly before the Great War - similar carriages were sold off to a number of smaller railway companies. 

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

I agree it looks like a standard letter. The addressee is at the foot of the page ....

Apologies, I was looking for an address at the top - like wot I woz taut to rite in skule ! .......... the fact that the address seems to be more distinct than the typing suggests that a number of letters were typed at once using carbon paper - and each individually addressed afterwards.

 

I wonder if Mr.Grimmer opted for a 43' summerhouse.

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

I wonder if Mr.Grimmer opted for a 43' summerhouse.

 

Or something more grim.

 

If he did, it's not there now, according to the Railway Heritage Register Carriage Survey - there is a 31 ft third at Sea Palling, further round the coast, and a couple of ex-Midland brake thirds of the period converted to a house, but at the other end of the county near Downham Market. The identities of these are known - 1129 and 1388. The former is said to date from 1881, which would make it a 43 ft bogie vehicle of lot 1881 - although the photos show only five compartments, if the date is correct it must be cut down from a 43 ft carriage as the first 31 ft thirds were built a couple of years later. Numbering of these carriages built as renewals of Kirtly-era stock is a bit sketchy but these are in the right range. 

 

Now I'm itching to see if these numbers are in the list attached to that letter!

[Nearholmer]

On 18/03/2022 at 14:22, Wickham Green too said:

Offloading involved hand jacks and barrels - though I've never sussed out exact details ! ....... Oh for a photo or two !

Arrive at site.

 

Place a barrel either side of the road wagon.

 

Jack one end of body slightly and slide a beam under, letting it rest on the barrel on each side, lower body onto beam.

 

Repeat at other end.

 

Drive wagon out, leaving vehicle supported on beams across barrels.

 

Jack and pack down.

 

Intriguing photo:

 

https://www.dorsetlife.co.uk/2019/03/the-railway-carriage-children/

Edited March 20, 2022 by Nearholmer

[33C]

3 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Arrive at site.

 

Place a barrel either side of the road wagon.

 

Jack one end of body slightly and slide a beam under, letting it rest on the barrel on each side, lower body onto beam.

 

Repeat at other end.

 

Drive wagon out, leaving vehicle supported on beams across barrels.

 

Jack and pack down.

 

Intriguing photo:

 

https://www.dorsetlife.co.uk/2019/03/the-railway-carriage-children/

That would make a great model talking point! 

[Wickham Green too]

55 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Arrive at site.

 

Place a barrel either side of the road wagon.

 

Jack one end of body slightly and slide a beam under, letting it rest on the barrel on each side, lower body onto beam.

 

Repeat at other end.

 

Drive wagon out, leaving vehicle supported on beams across barrels.

 

Jack and pack down.

 

It's got to be something along those lines - but a wagon ( of whatever sort ) is going to be considerably higher than a barrel* and hand jacks would probably have a lift of less than a foot so a lot more packing and re-packing would be involved.

 

 

* OK - a hogshead would be close at about 48''

[Wickham Green too]

Hmmmm ..... an interweb search for 'The Londs' finds nothing at Rollesby - only a street of that name in Overstrand, Cromer. Looking at an aerial view shows one or two suspiciously long and thin buildings that MIGHT be survivors of several bodies Mr.Grimmer MIGHT HAVE bought as a seaside 'plotlands' development ? ...... or am I seeing what I WANT to see ??!?

 

( Cromer is a fair way north of Rollesby - which is well inland.)