Buffer Bothers

[844fan]

Hey everyone,

Wow this place is quite dusty indeed, sorry for being gone so long life got complicated. Still working on fixing the damage, not any body damage just mental ones. But that is neither here nor there for my posts in upcoming future, I have found my calling is making Toys after getting into the hobby and it may take ages to get my lines out I am not gonna give in.

 

And that my friends is one reason I am back, while my toyline is primarily Action Figure based the world it takes place in has trains that are alive just like the other toys (think of the world here as Toy Story only humans have never been around the world mirroring our own with buildings and roads but only toys live here) and while I will be taking liberties with locomotives (some fictional designs some inspired by real train toys I have) I want to give some semblance of real locomotive design. Which means parts are to be scaled accordingly.

 

I have been checking every engine drawing I can and have not found a clear answer to withs of the buffer beams I think one on Big Bertha said her beam was 8 feet 4 but I couldn't quite make it out. 

 

Anyone know the average sizes of buffer beams (I do mean the flat part we see looking head on just so my jabbering makes sense) both locomotive and rolling stock wise? 

 

Sorry for the odd question I just need to figure out their size in scale and it is so much easier with real measurement s to follow.

 

Hope you are all doing ok right now and look forward to hearing from you again.

 

Stay safe,

Joey "844fan" Tripp Nimmo

[Wickham Green too]

A quick dip into Russell's 'Southern Locomotives' finds buffer beam/running plate widths between 7'6'' and a shade over 9' ....... buffer centres are more or less standardised at 5'8''-ish.

[sir douglas]

welcome back, havent seen anything from you for years

 

the 8'4" is width over footplate and steps, the bufferbeams are a bit narrower and the widest part are the cylinders at 8'11"

[844fan]

12 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

A quick dip into Russell's 'Southern Locomotives' finds buffer beam/running plate widths between 7'6'' and a shade over 9' ....... buffer centres are more or less standardised at 5'8''-ish.

Thank you, I have always know buffers ha a specific space, some industrial macines running larger buffer plates to accommodate (such as the Port Par twins) so,that is good to know rarely are the running board s more than 9' but it does happen. 

2 hours ago, sir douglas said:

welcome back, havent seen anything from you for years

 

the 8'4" is width over footplate and steps, the bufferbeams are a bit narrower and the widest part are the cylinders at 8'11"

Glad to be back, my friend.

 

So if I am understanding you the width I call buffer beams (the whole flat piece sitting 90°s to the footplate infront that the buffers and coupling mount) is part of the running board and so the 8' 4" is how wide that plate is? Just making sure. 

 

If I sound like I am forgetful on things, had a minor incident with a prescription and it one you never want to screw up dosages on. But I am running well though a tad addled, but that improves over time.

[sir douglas]

based on this drawing, i would guess that the bufferbeam is 7'7"

[844fan]

15 minutes ago, sir douglas said:

based on this drawing, i would guess that the bufferbeam is 7'7"

So one could say average sizes are between 7' and 8' on locomotives. Now rolling stock needs a average like LBSC coaches and LNER express services, and ouf course trucks and vans. 

 

As I say I'm trying to get a good size basis as some of the engines in my planned toy line are modified (shorter cowcatcher and such) designs from around the world and some fictional designs as in my toy line they are meant to have a toy feel, not a model feel. The greble/nerny's will be there but more like a Smokey Joy than a Hornby High detail Terrier. 

 

If you take my meaning of course my good friend.

[Wickham Green too]

12 hours ago, sir douglas said:

..... the 8'4" is width over footplate and steps, the bufferbeams are a bit narrower .....

The MR/LMS 4F may well be the same : 7'10.75'' front buffer beam and 7'3'' tender beam !

[Wheatley]

Whilst the buffer centres are more or less standardised at 5'8", as mentioned by Wickham Green, the width of the buffer beam* itself can be anything from 'just wide enough to bolt the buffers on to' to the maximum width permitted by the loading gauge. That dimension depends on the amount of end throw at the buffer beam. A short 0-4-0 will have much less end throw than a large 4-6-0, so can have a wider buffer beam before it starts hitting platform edges on curves. 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Wheatley

[844fan]

3 hours ago, Wheatley said:

Whilst the buffer centres are more or less standardised at 5'8", as mentioned by Wickham Green, the width of the buffer beam* itself can be anything from 'just wide enough to bolt the buffers on to' to the maximum width permitted by the loading gauge. That dimension depends on the amount of end throw at the buffer beam. A short 0-4-0 will have much less end throw than a large 4-6-0, so can have a wider buffer beam before it starts hitting platform edges on curves. 

 

So a black five could be said to have a 7 foot wide beam, and a E2 much thiner maybe 6 foot?

[Wheatley]

They need to be at least 5' 8"plus the width of a buffer housing (i.e. half a buffer housing outside of each buffer centre) so 6 feet is a bit skinny. You really need a clear dimensioned drawing of whatever is is you're thinking of, as there isn't a standard answer. 

[844fan]

51 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

They need to be at least 5' 8"plus the width of a buffer housing (i.e. half a buffer housing outside of each buffer centre) so 6 feet is a bit skinny. You really need a clear dimensioned drawing of whatever is is you're thinking of, as there isn't a standard answer. 

Amen, that was why I started this thread. Many drawings I have are very obtuse on exactly  how wide the buffer/headstock is meant to be. I see so many like big Bertha above and looks off. Maybe if I connect the dots digitally a straight line from them and using that drawings scale figure it out.

 

Unless someone has some clean drawaings of say a Black five and random Pug I am not sure.

[844fan]

Sorry to double post, but I got my calipers out and the model of the locomotive that inspired this question and did scale conversion. Her head stock if full size is just about 8' now while  she will be made more to look like Sierra No. 3 is 8' too wide for British loading gauge?

[LMS2968]

Buffer beams varied with (i) the loading gauge of the lines over which a loco was intended to work; and (ii) the overhang ahead of the fixed wheelbase. The GWR Kings' buffer beams were 8' 6" wide; the SR Lord Nelsons' were 7' 9". 71000's buffer beams finished at the outer edges of the buffer pads, as did the Bulleid Pacifics. Then there's the question of where are you measuring the buffer beam, as many were tapered in towards the bottom or had semi-circular cut-outs to provide clearance at platform level.

 

It all depends. There's no fixed figure.

[844fan]

37 minutes ago, LMS2968 said:

Buffer beams varied with (i) the loading gauge of the lines over which a loco was intended to work; and (ii) the overhang ahead of the fixed wheelbase. The GWR Kings' buffer beams were 8' 6" wide; the SR Lord Nelsons' were 7' 9". 71000's buffer beams finished at the outer edges of the buffer pads, as did the Bulleid Pacifics. Then there's the question of where are you measuring the buffer beam, as many were tapered in towards the bottom or had semi-circular cut-outs to provide clearance at platform level.

 

It all depends. There's no fixed figure.

Hey good to see another old friend, hmm since my toyline literally has living toy trains which can be anything between my before mentioned New Bright Pioneer to a single driver tin plate I should stick with just buffer alignment which has a standard mount width. Now I need to find some diagrams of rolling stock coaches and trucks of all types and set their buffers. 

 

Again only reasoning I started this thread was to keep a pseudo British, US and European feel to my locos. You'll probably find though I live in the US I don't like the looks of most locos without buffers, guess that comes from my love of Thomas as Awdry wrote it, not that 2d abomination that Mattel are using.