Ted-ish Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 Hi all, I'd really like to understand the nitty gritty of freight operations in 1980s. Sources, destinations, stops in-between and why. How signalling and hump yards functioned and their involvement in the process. How it all came together. In essence, I need a book or three (or video, website reference etc) that explains it so I can port that behaviour to my layout plans. Thanks in advance! ps: I've seen the waybaill and car cards used in the US, not sure if there's a similar system in the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 Robert Hendry's "The Living Model Railway has a chapter on freight operation, with illustrations of freight working timetables, wagon labels etc. The book will be out of print but should be readily available on ebay etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) Route learning maps such as these give a good insight into prototype layouts etc. Watching Utube videos on Absolute Block etc will give a good grounding on the most common form of period signalling system… BeRTIe Edited May 5, 2022 by BR traction instructor 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold nigb55009 Posted May 5, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 5, 2022 Might I suggest trying to get hold of a Local Trip Notice. These show details of trains not shown in the Working Timetables. Typically they show traffic from source, be it a factory, colliery or quarry or whatever, to a marshalling yard. This would sometimes involve calling at a smaller yard or other source to attach/detach traffic, before the wagons are added to a longer distance freight that would be shown in the WTT. These notices also show the loco type allocated tom each Trip, as well as deteails of the type of brake in use and the order which trains should be marshalled. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) A period Sectional Appendix for your chosen region is valuable (covers all lines within that region/area). The BR Rule book will cover all signals/aspects and interpretation… BeRTIe Edited May 5, 2022 by BR traction instructor 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted-ish Posted May 5, 2022 Author Share Posted May 5, 2022 49 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said: Robert Hendry's "The Living Model Railway has a chapter on freight operation, with illustrations of freight working timetables, wagon labels etc. The book will be out of print but should be readily available on ebay etc. Thank you so much, I'll try and hunt it down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 British Transport Films on Utube will cover many aspects of freight operations too. BeRTIe 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted-ish Posted May 5, 2022 Author Share Posted May 5, 2022 57 minutes ago, BR traction instructor said: Route learning maps such as these give a good insight into prototype layouts etc. Watching Utube videos on Absolute Block etc will give a good grounding on the most common form of period signalling system… BeRTIe 19 minutes ago, BR traction instructor said: A period Sectional Appendix for your chosen region is valuable… These look excellent! Hopefully I can find one for my area and era. Thank you for sharing images, very interesting and helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 5, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 5, 2022 1. Which area do you need a Sectional Appendix for? 2. Going on from there it really all depends on what you have in mind when you talk about 'freight operations in the 1980s' because it was still a period of change and evolution in freight traffic - and there used to be (probably still are) some good DVDs and videos around showing the sort of trains which were running in various parts of the country so definitely worthwhile looking on google etc using simple inquiries such as 'BR fe reight trains in the 1980s'. 3. One important factor will be Regionality - not only were there still differences in freight traffic around the network but there were also distinct differences in industries and their output and the impact that had on what the majority of train in a particular area would convey - coal being an obvious example. So you need to think about that sort of thing as well. 4, equally different routes would have different patterns of freight traffic and don't forget that by the '80s most local terminals and yards had either gone or only remained in use for very specific traffics or in some cases a selection of traffics - frequently only in bulk. So before you come to operating, or asking how it was operated, the first thing you need to think about is what the traffic actually would have been in the area which interests you. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted May 5, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 5, 2022 The working time-tables for the location and period will give you an indication of what and where trains ran. They'll also give you the train's headcode which can be used to search for images of the train on Flickr (which has a very useful date filter option, don't think Google Images does). Telerail have a series of DVDs called "Rail Freight Today". DVDs 1-8 cover the UK, #9 is an update and #10 covers Ireland (Northern and Republic of). The complete collection of ten DVDs can be found at World of Books for under £20. 1-5 and 6-10 are available from Telerail for £30 per set of five. Well worth a watch as they provide a good background to traction and wagon types, sources and destinations and operational background. "Speedlink" by Paul Shannon is also worth a look. Steven B. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Simon Lee Posted May 5, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 5, 2022 Get hold of these DVDs and this book, before you go any further. As the Station Master says you need to decide on area, traffic flows (real or imagined) before you move forward with any layout. There is a lot of knowledge on this site who can offer good advice, the official documents, WTTs, Sectional Appendices, and route learning guides will all help when you give us an idea of what your hoping to achieve. https://www.telerail.co.uk/railway-dvds-telerail-titles/rail-freight-today-boxed-sets/rail-freight-today-box-set-1-volumes-1-5 https://www.amazon.com/British-Rail-Freight-Today-Tomorrow/dp/0710603126 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted-ish Posted May 5, 2022 Author Share Posted May 5, 2022 Sorry, I should have said my layout (WIP) is based around Shirebrook maintenance depot in the late 80's. Coal obviously features heavily. However, I wanted offshoots to other areas in the Midlands represented by production facilities, terminals, yards and the like. I'm moving house later this year and will have substantial, dedicated space. Hence fortunate enough to be able to incorporate many areas (in N gauge). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) This would therefore be an ideal Sectional Appendix for you…currently available on ABE books. The Working Manual for rail staff is another valuable publication. This one is the 1975 version. BeRTIe Edited May 5, 2022 by BR traction instructor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted-ish Posted May 5, 2022 Author Share Posted May 5, 2022 26 minutes ago, BR traction instructor said: This would therefore be an ideal Sectional Appendix for you…currently available on ABE books. The Working Manual for rail staff is another valuable publication. This one is the 1975 version. BeRTIe Is that this one? - https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1902049559 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzler17 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 If you've got time try looking through this thread. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danemouth Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 I found this book useful https://www.amazon.co.uk/Freight-Train-Operation-Railway-Modeller/dp/0711031428/ref=sr_1_8?crid=2L4DRREBK0V6K&keywords=freight+essery&qid=1651755238&s=books&sprefix=freight+essery%2Cstripbooks%2C42&sr=1-8 Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Ted-ish said: Is that this one? - https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1902049559 …no, contact Curio books of Grimsby and quote the information that I posted…1972 Eastern region Sectional Appendix Southern area. Check that it is the Southern area as stated cos the picture shows a Northern area book. BeRTIe Edited May 5, 2022 by BR traction instructor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) …this one on Ebay is a better price and date. Just Google the title and seller. BeRTIe Edited May 5, 2022 by BR traction instructor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted-ish Posted May 5, 2022 Author Share Posted May 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, BR traction instructor said: …this one on Ebay is a better price and date. Just Google the title and seller. BeRTIe Grabbed it - thanks for your help with this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 …good man. BeRTIe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungrange Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 3 hours ago, Danemouth said: I found this book useful https://www.amazon.co.uk/Freight-Train-Operation-Railway-Modeller/dp/0711031428/ref=sr_1_8?crid=2L4DRREBK0V6K&keywords=freight+essery&qid=1651755238&s=books&sprefix=freight+essery%2Cstripbooks%2C42&sr=1-8 Dave Does that book cover the Diesel and Electric era? My understanding was that it focussed primarily on the stream era (which is why I never bought it). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danemouth Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 53 minutes ago, Dungrange said: Does that book cover the Diesel and Electric era? My understanding was that it focussed primarily on the stream era (which is why I never bought it). I've just had a quck look - covers steam only Dave 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted-ish Posted May 9, 2022 Author Share Posted May 9, 2022 Is there a guide on here (or elsewhere) on how to 'read' working manuals time tables? The first of my many items arrived - working manual (white pages) - and aside from the 'from and to' bit, I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking at! 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR traction instructor Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 (edited) …post a scan of the publication cover/page and I’ll advise. A Working Timetable will obviously have from and to elements. Working Manual white pages will have various instructions re the operation of freight trains. Some prototypical instructions will be more for the education of the reader whilst others will be model-able in part or entirety. BeRTIe Edited May 9, 2022 by BR traction instructor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted-ish Posted May 9, 2022 Author Share Posted May 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, BR traction instructor said: …post a scan of the publication cover/page and I’ll advise. BeRTIe This is another one I bought, in addition to the one your recommended (yet to arrive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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