Lyme Regis branch (LSWR)

[Tobbes]

An answer to where the 3L set came from in the summer of 1960 appears to be "it depended on when in that summer you are talking about?".

 

On Friday 15th of July 1960, the 3L was berthed at Axminster, but it isn't clear where it had come from (or indeed, when).

 

On Friday 22nd of July 1960, the 3L was the rear porttion of the 1.10 pm Exeter Central - Salisbury, arriving at 2.03 pm; it was presumably berthed in the goods yard (for want of anywhere else to put it) before going up to Lyme as the 7.48pm.

 

From the following week (27 Jul 60) through to nearly the end of the summer timetable (31 Aug 60), this moved from Fridays to Wednesdays. On these Wednesdays, the 3L set formed the rear portion of the 11.18 am Templecombe to Exeter Central, arriving at Axminster at 12.40 pm. This too was presumably shunted into the goods yard at Axminster before being run up the branch as the 7.48 pm ex-Axminster, and then being stabled at Lyme Regis until it was needed on Saturday for the 9.00 am to Axminster / Waterloo. 

 

In each case, to make up for the unbalanced workings, there was a LE path from Lyme to Axminster dep Lyme at 7.18 pm, arr Axminster 7.38 pm, leaving just 10 minutes to cross to the Goods Yard, collect the coaches, and shuffle back across the points to the platform before departure for Lyme. It appears that the 7.35 pm Chard Junction - Exeter Central train would have occupied the Dn platform from 7.42 pm - 7. 53 pm, so either the 3L was already in the branch bay, or it would have had to have been held well back on the platform to allow a propelling move into the Dn Platform and then for the Radial plus the 3L set to cross to the Up platform before accessing the branch. One for further investigation!

Edited January 18 by Tobbes
Syntax

[IWCR]

I suspect the layout at Axminster  was because the station was there and well established  with  the  goods  yard  to  the  south long  before  the  Lyme  Regis  branch  was  thought  of.  The  branch  was built  by  a  separate  company and as far as the LSWR  was  concerned  it was a lot  less  disruptive  for  the  branch  platform  to  be  on  the  north  (undeveloped)  side  of  their  station  than  spend  large  sums  altering

the goods  yard  to  allow  for  someone  else's   branch  platform  on  this  side.  A  bridge  crossing  to  the  north  avoids  conflict  with  the  main  line  and  reduces  the  gradient  off  it  although  it  then  needed  a  ramp on  the  north  side to  reach  the  bridge  height.

 

Pete

[JohnR]

5 hours ago, IWCR said:

I suspect the layout at Axminster  was because the station was there and well established  with  the  goods  yard  to  the  south long  before  the  Lyme  Regis  branch  was  thought  of.  The  branch  was built  by  a  separate  company and as far as the LSWR  was  concerned  it was a lot  less  disruptive  for  the  branch  platform  to  be  on  the  north  (undeveloped)  side  of  their  station  than  spend  large  sums  altering

the goods  yard  to  allow  for  someone  else's   branch  platform  on  this  side.  A  bridge  crossing  to  the  north  avoids  conflict  with  the  main  line  and  reduces  the  gradient  off  it  although  it  then  needed  a  ramp on  the  north  side to  reach  the  bridge  height.

 

Pete

 

Its worth pointing out that there was originally a link from the branch into the goods yard on the south of the station, that would have allowed for more direct through traffic, but it seems it was actually little used in the early days and was removed about 1915.

[Nearholmer]

On 17/05/2022 at 12:56, KeithMacdonald said:

But anything arriving on the down line must have had a lot of shunting to get it onto the branch line on the up side?

It did, but if you think in through coach terms it does all make sense:

 

- down express pauses, Lyme portion screwed down and detached, quick brake test and away you go. The branch loco can then do all the shuffling to and fro to attach the portion to the branch train “at leisure”;

 

- to attach a portion from the branch to an up express, the branch loco lurks in readiness with the coach(es), the express draws to a halt, change the points, shunt the portion onto the back, couple-up, brake test, “Right away driver!”, so quick that the chap who got out to take a photo of it all gets left behind, while his gabardine mac, wallet, ticket, suitcase, wife, and children continue to Waterloo.

 

 

“The Lobster Thermidor, please, and a well-chilled bottle of your best Condrieu; Peter hez Deddy’s wallet, so we can easily pay at the end.”

 

 

Edited January 19 by Nearholmer

[Mallard60022]

43 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

It did, but if you think in through coach terms it does all make sense:

 

- down express pauses, Lyme portion screwed down and detached, quick brake test and away you go. The branch loco can then do all the shuffling to and fro to attach the portion to the branch train “at leisure”;

 

- to attach a portion from the branch to an up express, the branch loco lurks in readiness with the coach(es), the express draws to a halt, change the points, shunt the portion onto the back, couple-up, brake test, “Right away driver!”, so quick that the chap who got out to take a photo of it all gets left behind, while his gabardine mac, wallet, ticket, suitcase, wife, and children continue to Waterloo.

 

 

“The Lobster Thermidor, please, and a well-chilled bottle of your best Condrieu; Peter hez Deddy’s wallet, so we can easily pay at the end.”

 

 

Down Coaches: Branch Loco lurks in Goods Siding by Signal Box. Down arrives. 5 Off, Down departs with 5 for SJ. Branch Loco pops out moving west, reverses onto Coaches, reverses up the Down and over X Over to Up. Stops clear and and hurries forwards to Branch access and off the Up (I mean hurries) to the safety of the Branch area. Bobby at West end can see all this movement and checks clearance at east End with Shunter.

Never saw it happen but have read somewhere how it happened. Check the Track Diagram to confirm this works.

Cheers

Phil

[Nearholmer]

The basics of the branch in history terms, and good detail of the infrastructure, are given in Volume 2 of the Wild Swan Southern Branch Lines set. If you want to build a model, that’s definitely the place to start. My copy is packed away somewhere, so I can’t check to see whether it sets out why a flyover, or not.

[DLT]

The flyover arrangement existed for all the reasons already explained, plus the fact the branch was climbing steeply out of the valley.  It was 1in80 from the platform to the bridge, and shortly after steepened to 1in40 for a mile.  Axminster station is in the valley floor, not much above river level, so whatever route it took, the branch had a long climb to the south.

[KeithMacdonald]

On 18/01/2024 at 14:50, IWCR said:

I suspect the layout at Axminster  was because the station was there and well established  with  the  goods  yard  to  the  south long  before  the  Lyme  Regis  branch  was  thought  of. 

 

Yes, quite a large goods yard with cattle pens, and maybe carpets from the Axminster carpet factory as well?  (marked in brown below)

 

 

Getting into the goods sidings from the down line would obviously be simple enough. But how would they manage goods/cattle/carpets that wanted to depart onto the up line? Would they have run "wrong way" up the down line, through the station, to get to the crossover onto the up line? Or something else?

[Nearholmer]

If there was only one crossover, it may have been served only by Down goods trains. Or, maybe that’s a lay-by siding on the Up side, where “cuts” could be left for collection by Up trains after shunting across (by the branch loco between runs?).

 

 

 

Edited January 19 by Nearholmer

[Mallard60022]

9 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Yes, quite a large goods yard with cattle pens, and maybe carpets from the Axminster carpet factory as well?  (marked in brown below)

 

 

Getting into the goods sidings from the down line would obviously be simple enough. But how would they manage goods/cattle/carpets that wanted to depart onto the up line? Would they have run "wrong way" up the down line, through the station, to get to the crossover onto the up line? Or something else?

As at Seaton Junction, the East X Over was often used to do such activity. Parish member Dunsignalling used to work Honiton Box so he will probably be familiar with what went on further East?

 

Keith, would Lyme, despite its' obvious attractions, give you enough operating satisfaction? Will you be happy with the Shuttle, a couple of additional Summer Timetable dropped off from the main sets, but using the same Engines and the few Goods that tootled? Vans from and to Lyme were often added to the Shuttle IIRC?  I am presuming that some Coal and bits were needed every so often for the Lyme servicing area? I can't recall ever seeing a picture of a Goods on the line.

I think you might get away with doing Axminster as it has two overbridges as scenic breaks, so you can have a simple roundy roundy accommodating the expresses (frequent in Summer) and still have the jolly Lyme Branch running away into wherever you choose! Also the Goods Yard has interest if you need a gentle shunt!

I've NEVER seen an Axminster layout!

Sincerely,

Phil

 

Edited January 20 by Mallard60022
Spellin'

[JohnR]

I seem to recall a CJF plan that had both Axminster (shortened obviously) and Lyme Regis. Or at least recognisable versions of them. It was designed for a loft, and I think the main line was 7 coach trains (with half of them hidden beyond the bridge at Axminster. 

[melmoth]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

I can't recall ever seeing a picture of a Goods on the line.

 

 

There was a coal merchant in the yard at Lyme, and the local branch of Boots received a van of goods each week. Other businesses in the town would probably have supplied in a similar manner. IIRC, in one of Derek Phillips's books there's a photo of a LSWR Road Van in BR days at Lyme or Axminster, possibly for use as the branch brake van.

[Nearholmer]

Date is always important in these questions, in that the volume of goods doubtless fluctuated over the years, as the town grew, increasing demand, but road transport became more viable, counteracting that.

 

The line certainly had mixed trains, I think throughout its history, but I think there was enough traffic to justify running goods only trains at some periods.

[4630]

To add to @Nearholmer’s post yesterday which mentioned “The basics of the branch in history terms, and good detail of the infrastructure, are given in Volume 2 of the Wild Swan Southern Branch Lines set”, another good reference is ‘From Devon to Dorset - The story of the Lyme Regis Branch’, by Martin Smith and George Reeve.  Published by Irwell Press.  ISBN 978-1-903266-37-8.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fstrathwood.co.uk%2Fproducts%2Ffrom-devon-to-dorset-the-story-of-the-lyme-regis-branch&psig=AOvVaw082oqZRmlT-6UD08llngKD&ust=1705836756163000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBMQjRxqFwoTCLC3rKbv64MDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

[Tobbes]

1 hour ago, melmoth said:

 

There was a coal merchant in the yard at Lyme, and the local branch of Boots received a van of goods each week. Other businesses in the town would probably have supplied in a similar manner. IIRC, in one of Derek Phillips's books there's a photo of a LSWR Road Van in BR days at Lyme or Axminster, possibly for use as the branch brake van.

In the summer 1960 timetable there was a weekday path at 7.29 am ex-Axminster for a goods train to Lyme using the branch engine which had run down light (though presumably bringing empties as required?) - the LE path left Lyme at 6.15 am, giving the branch engine plenty of time (almost an hour) to shunt Axminster and form up whatever goods traffic was bound for Lyme. However, pictures of this all goods are rare, which could indicate it ran rarely or simply that there was limited interest in it.

 

The only picture I've seen of a pure Goods rather than mixed train on the branch comes from Roger Joanes's Flickr feed (thank-you, Roger) on Friday 8 April 1960:

 

Additionally, the weekday 8.11 am ex-Lyme and the balancing 8.43 am ex-Axminster were mixed in 1960, though how frequently it ran mixed isn't exactly clear today. Fortunately, Mr Joanes has a picture of the mixed on its way to Axminster on 8 April 1960:

And another from the footplate on (Monday) 5 Sept 1960:

Finally, there were PW trains on the branch as well, which Mr Joanes captured this beauty on (Sunday) 10 April 1960:

I'd be grateful for help on what these hoppers are - I thought that they were Dogfish, but that's just a guess.

 

Mr Joanes also captured the two Radials have a drink at Lyme the same day:

 

So, we're indebted to Mr Joanes for pointing his camera at non-passenger workings on the Lyme Regis branch that would otherwise probably live on only in the memory of those who operated them.

Edited January 20 by Tobbes
Added photographs

[Tobbes]

A final thought on the ballast train which Roger Joanes recorded on Sunday 10 April 1960 - I'm wondering what time of day it ran. I've only got the 1960 Summer WTT, but even then, the first train on the branch that day was a 10.25 am ex-Lyme; it seems unlikely that in the off-season the Sunday service started earlier than this.

 

Ergo, the obvious conclusion is that the ballast train was worked up the line before the public service started, but on what looks like a cloudy (& chilly, for April!) day, the shadows are non-existent and therefore not helpful in placing the timing of the photos.

 

If this is correct, then the presumption must be that the outgoing branch engine simply stayed on the line on the Saturday night, and returned to EJ on the Sunday when the ballast train duties had been complete. I'm left wondering if a single Radial could have handled the seven empties alone once the ballast had been dropped?

 

Mr Joanes' picture from the brakevan suggests to me that the first six hoppers had dumped their load onto the line as the train made its way to Lyme, leaving only the seventh full - which, if true perhaps suggests that this was an early start to dump all the ballast before the public service started, assuming of course that there wasn't an engineering possession of the line all day on the 10th of April 1960. If, hypothetically, the engines had left in the 6.15 am LE path that the weekday Goods had, they would have had more than three hours to drop ballast and get up to Lyme ahead of the public service.

 

Moreover, if a single Radial could have handled seven empty hoppers back to Axminster, then the outgoing Radial could have taken them down to Axminster solo and then potentially back to EJ.

 

As ever with this, more questions raised than answered - any thoughts gratefully received.

Edited January 20 by Tobbes
Spelling!

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, Tobbes said:

A final thought on the ballast train which Roger Joanes recorded on Sunday 10 April 1960 - I'm wondering what time of day it ran. I've only got the 1960 Summer WTT, but even then, the first train on the branch that day was a 10.25 am ex-Lyme; it seems unlikely that in the off-season the Sunday service started earlier than this.

 

Ergo, the obvious conclusion is that the ballast train was worked up the line before the public service started, but on what looks like a cloudy (& chilly, for April!) day, the shadows are non-existent and therefore not helpful in placing the timing of the photos.

 

If this is correct, then the presumption must be that the outgoing branch engine simply stayed on the line on the Saturday night, and returned to EJ on the Sunday when the ballast train duties had been complete. I'm left wondering if a single Radial could have handled the seven empties alone once the ballast had been dropped?

 

Mr Joanes' picture from the brakevan suggests to me that the first six hoppers had dumped their load onto the line as the train made its way to Lyme, leaving only the seventh full - which, if true perhaps suggests that this was an early start to dump all the ballast before the public service started, assuming of course that there wasn't an engineering possession of the line all day on the 10th of April 1960. If, hypothetically, the engines had left in the 6.15 am LE path that the weekday Goods had, they would have had more than three hours to drop ballast and get up to Lyme ahead of the public service.

 

Moreover, if a single Radial could have handled seven empty hoppers back to Axminster, then the outgoing Radial could have taken them down to Axminster solo and then potentially back to EJ.

 

As ever with this, more questions raised than answered - any thoughts gratefully received.

I reckon an S15 would have collected the Wagons from Axminster?

 

Those are wonderful pictures, especially the mixed Train with Guard's van too!

The only thing I can add is that there was a local Furniture maker I think, that needed an occasional Van for outbounds. That little story in one of my books.

P

[KeithMacdonald]

6 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

I am presuming that some Coal and bits were needed every so often for the Lyme servicing area? I can't recall ever seeing a picture of a Goods on the line.

 

Agreed, not many, but there must have been some to get these to Lyme Station?

 

 

[Stoke West]

4 hours ago, Tobbes said:

In the summer 1960 timetable there was a weekday path at 7.29 am ex-Axminster for a goods train to Lyme using the branch engine which had run down light (though presumably bringing empties as required?) - the LE path left Lyme at 6.15 am, giving the branch engine plenty of time (almost an hour) to shunt Axminster and form up whatever goods traffic was bound for Lyme. However, pictures of this all goods are rare, which could indicate it ran rarely or simply that there was limited interest in it.

 

The only picture I've seen of a pure Goods rather than mixed train on the branch comes from Roger Joanes's Flickr feed (thank-you, Roger) on Friday 8 April 1960:

 

Additionally, the weekday 8.11 am ex-Lyme and the balancing 8.43 am ex-Axminster were mixed in 1960, though how frequently it ran mixed isn't exactly clear today. Fortunately, Mr Joanes has a picture of the mixed on its way to Axminster on 8 April 1960:

And another from the footplate on (Monday) 5 Sept 1960:

Finally, there were PW trains on the branch as well, which Mr Joanes captured this beauty on (Sunday) 10 April 1960:

I'd be grateful for help on what these hoppers are - I thought that they were Dogfish, but that's just a guess.

 

Mr Joanes also captured the two Radials have a drink at Lyme the same day:

 

So, we're indebted to Mr Joanes for pointing his camera at non-passenger workings on the Lyme Regis branch that would otherwise probably live on only in the memory of those who operated them.

They dont look like Dogfish plus would they be over the axle weight , are they Herrings ? Woolworths would have had a van once a week probaly more in the summer as did Seaton

[JohnR]

5 minutes ago, Stoke West said:

They dont look like Dogfish plus would they be over the axle weight , are they Herrings ? Woolworths would have had a van once a week probaly more in the summer as did Seaton

 

I've seen a picture of a van at Lyme described as a weekly van for Boots the Chemist.

[Stoke West]

1 hour ago, JohnR said:

 

I've seen a picture of a van at Lyme described as a weekly van for Boots the Chemist.

Shocvan 

[Tobbes]

2 hours ago, Stoke West said:

They dont look like Dogfish plus would they be over the axle weight , are they Herrings ? Woolworths would have had a van once a week probaly more in the summer as did Seaton

Thanks, that's very helpful - I don't know anything about engineering wagons. Are Herrings available in OO RTR?

[Tobbes]

3 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

I reckon an S15 would have collected the Wagons from Axminster?

 

Those are wonderful pictures, especially the mixed Train with Guard's van too!

The only thing I can add is that there was a local Furniture maker I think, that needed an occasional Van for outbounds. That little story in one of my books.

P

Forgive me, @Mallard60022 - what books are these?

[Beacon]

I'm not sure if any of you are aware but if you are on Facebook then via this link you can see details of a community layout based in Axminster focused on the Axminster to Lyme branch: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61551662745914

If you're not on Facebook, then you can read a bit about it here: https://www.bridportnews.co.uk/news/23689658.model-railway-built-axminster-lyme-regis-line/

and here:

https://www.midweekherald.co.uk/news/23984775.axminster-celebrates-re-opening-forgotten-railway/

[Tobbes]

10 minutes ago, Beacon said:

I'm not sure if any of you are aware but if you are on Facebook then via this link you can see details of a community layout based in Axminster focused on the Axminster to Lyme branch: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61551662745914

If you're not on Facebook, then you can read a bit about it here: https://www.bridportnews.co.uk/news/23689658.model-railway-built-axminster-lyme-regis-line/

and here:

https://www.midweekherald.co.uk/news/23984775.axminster-celebrates-re-opening-forgotten-railwa

Many thanks! I like the look of the station building... I presume it's a scratchbuilt item? Many congratulations to the modeller if so!