PECO announces its entry into the TT gauge market

[bradfordbuffer]

42 minutes ago, luke_stevens said:

 Starting to experiment in TT...

 

Luke 1.75 MB · 0 downloads

 

Ohhh class 31 !

[luke_stevens]

52 minutes ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Ohhh class 31 !

 

1st EP...

 

(Actually a bit more Hymek)

 

Luke

[Keith Addenbrooke]

2 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

 Starting to experiment in TT...

 

Luke 1.75 MB · 0 downloads

 

 

Hi Luke, looks interesting.  I don’t know if you’ve seen it yet, but a Scale-specific sub-Forum was opened yesterday for TT:120 modelling here on RMwb, and I wonder if a thread there might be a better place to showcase your endeavours (particularly if the track isn’t Peco).  You can find it in the Scale Specific section of the Modelling Zone if you’ve not run across it.  Hope that’s OK, Keith.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[luke_stevens]

25 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 

Hi Luke, looks interesting.  I don’t know if you’ve seen it yet, but a Scale-specific sub-Forum was opened yesterday for TT:120 modelling here on RMwb, and I wonder if a thread there might be a better place to showcase your endeavours (particularly if the track isn’t Peco).  You can find it in the Scale Specific section of the Modelling Zone if you’ve not run across it.  Hope that’s OK, Keith.

Hi Keith,

 

I was intending on putting it there, if worthy, but I just wanted to point out that some of us area actually putting our money where our mouths are :)

 

Luke

[Vanguard 5374]

12 minutes ago, luke_stevens said:

Hi Keith,

 

I was intending on putting it there, if worthy, but I just wanted to point out that some of us area actually putting our money where our mouths are :)

 

Luke

You’re not alone, I’m tinkering with various TT120 items right now to get items ready for my planned layout.

[luke_stevens]

2 minutes ago, Vanguard 5374 said:

You’re not alone, I’m tinkering with various TT120 items right now to get items ready for my planned layout.

 

I didn't think i would be, but I could probably guess which of us will!

 

Luke

[Hobby]

14 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

 

 

Tillig were selling the bodies of those at their factory for £9 a few years ago, as the body is close to the Bulgarian Class 75/77 NG locos I thought I'd get one to see if it would work in H0e. It didn't, too small! I should have realised from the other photo I took! I might still have the body somewhere!

[F-UnitMad]

On 17/06/2022 at 07:16, bradfordbuffer said:

Yep and kids where happy receiving a couple of tangerine and a hand full of monkey nuts in a old sock in 60s...

Rugrats today would probably tie a not in sock and beat you round the head with it! coz you not taken 2nd mortgage out on PS12! Or I phone23 and today's modelers are no better.....God help Heljan and peco if ranges are out late

At least kids of the 60s could spell properly. 🙄🙄🙄😝😝😝

[bradfordbuffer]

26 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

At least kids of the 60s could spell properly. 🙄🙄🙄😝😝😝

🙈 

[luke_stevens]

5 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

At least kids of the 60s could spell properly. 🙄🙄🙄😝😝😝

At least those that were educated could. Those who weren't kept their mouths shut...

 

L

[Phil Mason]

We seem to have digressed somewhat!

 

To return to the original subject, I model in 2mm, 3mm and 4mm scales. I also call them N gauge, TT and 'Double Oh' (or 1:150, 1:100 and 1:something ridiculous). 
 

Do I need another scale? Absolutely not!

 

If I was new to

modelling, would I take up this new scale? 
Not at the moment. 
 

It'll take a long time to build to build up the catalogues from the ancillary or cottage manufacturers to support the scale. It'll take even longer to build up an affordable second hand market that many modellers rely on as a the basis of conversions or scratch building to fill the holes. 
 

Will it be possible to build a layout in this scale? Certainly, but one would need a degree of inventiveness and resourcefulness to do so. It'll be difficult for quite some time and require many compromises in terms of track, signals and scenic items as well as rolling stock. It will happen because we are a resourceful lot and we like a challenge but if you want to model a particular place and time your layout could be built and up and running in any other scale before this one. 
 

The emphasis on true scale and gauge is an irrelevance. This can be achieved relatively easily in any of the mainstream scales.
 

Unfortunately we are all in a grown up hobby with toy roots and legacy from the '50s and '60s so we are stuck with this plethora of heritage scales and gauges.
 

My view is that neither Peco's announcement, nor Heljan's, is likely to attract younger participants or newcomers to the hobby. 
 

EM gauge RTR class 68 anyone? 
(Though I guess it's just a case of drop in wheel sets anyway). 
 

I'm off to do some modelling...

Edited June 19, 2022 by Phil Mason
Missing word

[Hobby]

Another "vested interest" negative, OK so you don't need it, but others might, it's a current established RTR scale already (unlike 3mm) and has a wide following outside the UK. Who's to say that it won't establish itself, only time will tell.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Hobby

[NCB]

9 hours ago, Phil Mason said:

It'll take a long time to build to build up the catalogues from the ancillary or cottage manufacturers to support the scale. It'll take even longer to build up an affordable second hand market that many modellers rely on as a the basis of conversions or scratch building to fill the holes. 
 

Will it be possible to build a layout in this scale? Certainly, but one would need a degree of inventiveness and resourcefulness to do so. It'll be difficult for quite some time and require many compromises in terms of track, signals and scenic items as well as rolling stock. It will happen because we are a resourceful lot and we like a challenge but if you want to model a particular place and time your layout could be built and up and running in any other scale before this one. 
 

..

If you read this month's RM you will find plans for two very buildable TT  layouts. Not difficult at all.

[spamcan61]

2 minutes ago, NCB said:

If you read this month's RM you will find plans for two very buildable TT  layouts. Not difficult at all.

..so how are you supposed to build these layouts when there's currently unlikely to be any British outline locos available until 2023 at the earliest?

[luke_stevens]

29 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

..so how are you supposed to build these layouts when there's currently unlikely to be any British outline locos available until 2023 at the earliest?

 

More correctly: "unlikely to be any British outline R-T-R locos available". I'm sure there will be kits available soon. 3d printing and etched kits are relatively quick and easy to rescale. And  I suspect there are other items already in the pipe-line.

 

In my case I've already picked up a "starter" Tilling loco to work with. It would/ will allow me to build a layout whilst I wait for appropriate British rolling stock.

 

Luke

[spamcan61]

6 minutes ago, luke_stevens said:

 

More correctly: "unlikely to be any British outline R-T-R locos available". I'm sure there will be kits available soon. 3d printing and etched kits are relatively quick and easy to rescale. And  I suspect there are other items already in the pipe-line.

 

In my case I've already picked up a "starter" Tilling loco to work with. It would/ will allow me to build a layout whilst I wait for appropriate British rolling stock.

 

Luke

Ah if we're including kits then it would be much easier / less difficult to build the layouts in 3mm then! I've not seen much 3D printing in scales as small as 2.5mm that would be good enough quality for this "no compromise" scale. 

[bradfordbuffer]

6 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Ah if we're including kits then it would be much easier / less difficult to build the layouts in 3mm then! I've not seen much 3D printing in scales as small as 2.5mm that would be good enough quality for this "no compromise" scale. 

Sorry sir get yourself over to the dark side.....2mm section on rm web...some superb 3d printed stuff there!

 

 lots of stuff on thingiverse you can rescale and have a play with...most people know some one with a printer or there is shapeways...the expensive route

[luke_stevens]

2 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Ah if we're including kits then it would be much easier / less difficult to build the layouts in 3mm then! I've not seen much 3D printing in scales as small as 2.5mm that would be good enough quality for this "no compromise" scale. 

 

I would say "give it time". Peco only made their announcement on 6th June. 

 

Knowing that Heljan are doing a 31, I'd be more tempted to ask Worsley Works if they would do some of their Mk1 coach kits in 2.54mm, rather than try to build one of 3smr loco kits and then try the coach kits.

 

To me it is about options. TT120 is a option today in the way it wasn't a month ago.

 

Luke

 

 

[Nile]

Lack of rolling stock doesn't stop anyone building a layout. Call it a diorama until the stock arrives.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

…so I should aim have my baseboards ready as soon as the end of next year?  If we’re going to be that quick I should have started months ago!!!

 

Seriously though, plenty of layout projects are measured in years (or longer), and when I read about some of the great American Basement Empire home layouts I notice that the owners often started putting together buildings and other components long before the actual layout took shape.  I’ve seen some close-up photos taken over the weekend at a show where samples of Peco’s TT:120 product range were on display, and I think the building kits look very nice in close up.

While I realise some will seize on the apparent flaw in my argument, namely that I don’t know what rolling stock may or may not become available yet, I think @luke_stevens is spot on in my book: TT:120 with any sort of commercial support is an option that didn’t exist for UK outline even a month ago.  I’d like it to succeed, so that means buying in and seeing what happens.  And as @Nile notes, there’s nothing wrong with a diorama to start with, especially if the track is the right width  (I’ve happily made a couple of Cakebox models in the recent past, using HO for both).  Have a good week everyone, Keith.

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Moria15]

23 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

  And as @Nile notes, there’s nothing wrong with a diorama to start with, especially if the track is the right width  (I’ve happily made a couple of Cakebox models in the recent past, using HO for both).  Have a good week everyone, Keith.

 

You could always plonk a Corgi 1:120 loco on it for display purposes :)

 

Graham

[Pacific231G]

12 hours ago, Hobby said:

Another "vested interest" negative, OK so you don't need it, but others might, it's a current established RTR scale already (unlike 3mm) and has a wide following outside the UK. Who's to say that it won't establish itself, only time will tell.

One thing I like about Peco's approach is that they appear to be focussing on the railway modelling and not the "train set" approach to RTR with the first turnouts at 3ft radius (equivalent to 4ft for 16.5mm gauge)

IMHO, what bedevilled 00, TT-3 and British N was the need to produce locos and track that would go round absurdly tight curves and so needed very wide tyres with all the problems of clearances that leads to. Henry Greenly designed 4mm/ft 00 to handle 12 inch radius curves (half the radius used for 0 gauge tinplate) , Hornby Dublo was designed for 15 inch curves, Tri-ang 00 for 13.5 inch  and Tri-ang TT (TT-3)  for 10 inch curves .

 I know that many H0 RTR models include compromises to get round not dissimilar fixed radius curves but at least the compromises have been those found necesssary after starting with the correct gauge not baked in from the start.

There were a number of TT layouts at the GRS' Globalrail show in Didcot yesterday and more than one builder said that they'd been less than happy with existing TT track so were looking forward to trying out Peco's new range. Interestingly Peco themselves had quite a large stand there. 

 

Without knowing Peco's mind, I strongly suspect that the track has been designed with an international-or at least pan European- market in mind and it's fairly straightforward to add buildings and rolling stock for the British outline market.  If it's worth their while to produce H0n3 track- mainly for a small section of the US market- then TT should be equally viable.

As for rolling stock, it's worth remembering that Tri-ang launched TT-3 im March 1957 with just one 0-6-0T, a brake 2nd and a composite suburban coach, a goods brakevan, a mineral wagon, a box van  and a tank wagon (with various markings and ladders for the United Dairies version)

Edited June 19, 2022 by Pacific231G

[Atso]

2 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

Ah if we're including kits then it would be much easier / less difficult to build the layouts in 3mm then! I've not seen much 3D printing in scales as small as 2.5mm that would be good enough quality for this "no compromise" scale. 

I'm not sure I'd agree but it depends on where your expectations of good enough quality are.

 

 

N gauge 1:148 scale C1 printed loco and tender bodies on some heavily adapted commercial spare parts and aftermarket bits (i.e. buffers and handrail knobs). This one was printed a few years ago and affordable hobby printers have improved in resolution since then.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Atso

[NCB]

20 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

..so how are you supposed to build these layouts when there's currently unlikely to be any British outline locos available until 2023 at the earliest?

I was talking about ease of building layouts; stock is something else. I suspect it would take at least a year for most people to build the basics of a modest sized layout in any scale.

 

As to availabilty of stock,  don't assume that Heljan are the only show in town.

[spamcan61]

38 minutes ago, NCB said:

I was talking about ease of building layouts; stock is something else. I suspect it would take at least a year for most people to build the basics of a modest sized layout in any scale.

 

As to availabilty of stock,  don't assume that Heljan are the only show in town.

I still don't see how a layout can be described as "buildable" when you can't buy the stock to run on it, there's no public domain information that anything is going to arrive from anybody before 2023.