Hard wiring for DCC on an older 'Wilton'

[Mallard60022]

Quick ask if anyone has done this please? If so can you describe the process; not in total detail, but what bits you used would be really helpful and any 'alterations' to the innards of the Loco.

Thanks,

Phil

[Wilton 34041]

Hi Phil, as it happens I did this to mine last month and produced a write up for our club magazine. I wanted to make it flexible so I could change decoders or go back to DC with a blanking plug so I used an eight pin DCC socket wired to the loco. I also wanted to keep it all in the loco so the speaker is under the chimney and the decoder sits on top of the chassis/motor held on with kapton tape. The socket is on the side of the ballast weight with black tack. I did cut a piece out of the ballast weight for the speaker to notch into. If you're interested I can probably send you my write up, there's photos too.

 

Phil B.

[Butler Henderson]

Remove all the existing spiders web of wiring bar the wire from the pick ups. Solder the motor wires from the decoder to the motor, one track pick wire to the existing pick up wire with a heat shrink covering and attach the other pick up wire to a suitable fixing on the chassis.

[RFS]

Done this on 34067 Tangmere which is also not DCC-ready. It's really easy as there's plenty of space inside and I fitted a Lenz Standard+ decoder. You just need to take care with the tender pickup wiring as it's not colour-coded so you need to ensure it's connected up the right way round. As already mentioned, remove all the wiring gubbins with the capacitor. 

[roundhouse]

I have fitted DCC to  quite a few Wiltons (all bar one renamed / renumbered) including sound to some. I have wired mine as Butler Henderson and also added extra weight at the front around the chimney to improve traction due to the heavily sprung rear driver on the earlier releases including Wilton, Weymouth etc.

Agree with RFS re the tender pickup wiring. Some later releases had the wiring polarity to the tender swapped round. I found out when swapping tenders between different locos.

Edited June 10, 2022 by roundhouse

[Mallard60022]

That is brilliant chaps. Thank you very much. I think I will fit a Socket and Blanking Plate too for future sale potential when I pop off.

 

I am experimenting now with one Wilton, first off.

So far I have removed the large weight block and added Liquid lead around the chimney area, under the Can top! I've also added two lengths of lead roofing sheet to the can sides, around 1/3 the Boiler length from the Smokebox rear; insulated all that with tape on the surfaces. The Body Fits the Chassis and is really well balanced and almost as heavy, if not more heavy than originally.

The space available now  for Decoder, wiring and Dec  Socket etc. is excellent; good old Spam CAN space eh! 

 

Phil B, could I possibly ask you to send that info? PM but if you want to share it here it may be of use to others?

Can I do some sort of horse trade for that info?

Sincerely,

Phil

[Mallard60022]

Also, me being a trickery duffer, could you suggest a 'suitable Chassis fixing' for the second pick up wire?

Thank you.

Sorted as the fitting is there already if I need it! Derrrr.

Phil

Edited June 11, 2022 by Mallard60022

[Mallard60022]

I found this by the way. It is a simple to wire socket for Loco Hard wiring.

https://www.illuminatedmodels.co.uk/products/al-07-8-pin-decoder-socket

Thank you again.

Phil

[Wilton 34041]

Hi Phil, yes I'll probably pm the info to you as I've not posted anything that large on here before and I expect it will go horribly wrong. I used an eight pin on a pre-wired harness so I could solder to the pickups and motor easily. I'll come back later this afternoon with parts used etc.

Phil B.

[RFS]

One issue worth mentioning that applies to both 34041 Wilton and my 34067 Tangmere is that they are early China builds and hence have 14.2mm back-to-back wheel measurements instead of the later 14,5mm. This can cause issues with scale track such as Peco code 75, in particular DCC shorts on slips and crossings. I had to ease mine out to 14.5m to eliminate this problem. 

[Wilton 34041]

This is an edited version of an article I wrote for Brighton Model Railway Club Newsletter on how I put DCC sound into a Hornby 'Wilton'. I don't say this is the only way but it is what I did and it works well. I did have more photos in the original but I've had terrible trouble getting them to up-load.

If anyone knows how to get the file size small enough or what type please say.

 

I used an MX645 sound decoder with wheel slip function,  and a speaker and eight pin socket all from Digitrains. I've been looking for the part numbers but since putting them away safely I can't find the docs. with the details!! When they come to light I'll add them in.

I wouldn't have the wheel slip function if I do another one as it's too eager to come on. I wish I knew of a CV to adjust it with. 

             

Sound for ‘Wilton’ a Hornby West country – DCC into a Pre DCC ready Locomotive.

 

‘Wilton’ is an early version of the Hornby West Country range of models so has no provision for DCC at all. No socket for DCC ready as later models do. I wanted to fit not only DCC but DCC sound and this is the account of how I have done it very recently, although I’ve had the sound chip for some time.

 

It is possible to ‘hard wire’ a decoder to the chassis in this sort of situation but I wanted it to be more flexible in the way of options. So I bought an eight pin socket to (match the decoder) on a harness to fit to the chassis and motor such that if I needed to in the future I could change the decoder or indeed remove it and fit a blanking plug reverting to DC analogue easily.

 

Now there is plenty of room within the original W/C body for the electrics required (thankfully) and the decoder can sit on top of the front ballast weight, however, another of my requirements was to keep everything in the loco. I wasn’t prepared to add extra wiring across to the tender for the speaker as more recent models do. It already has tender pick-ups so no issues there.

 

The space under the chimney is ideal but not quite the right shape for the speaker so some modification is required. Taking the front ballast weight off and cutting a piece off the front lower corner does the trick.

 

All the original wires were taken off including the suppressor, I took a photo first in case I needed a reference later. 

Ok so now it’s down to assembling the electronics, keeping it electrically safe and tidy.

The loom on the plug is first to fit. There are more wires than I needed for this conversion so I separated out the extra ones and left them full length. They are for functions like head and tail lights and firebox glow which I’m not fitting now but I left them long for options later if I want to. I only need the red, orange, black and grey for pick-ups and motor. The wires are far too long for this loco so they were reduced by half their length. The original chassis earth to the weight retaining screw was reused

 

 Black Tack holds the plug in place and Kapton tape holds the wiring.

Next comes the decoder. With any work on something like this ESD (Electro Static Discharge) precautions must be taken. I have a metal wrist band connected to a 1 Meg resisted earth plug to discharge any static I have accumulated in my clothes.

 

I now soldered the speaker to the purple wires after shortening them. As it’s a one speaker system polarity doesn’t come into it. The whole can now be assembled to the chassis and the speaker held in place with black tack. 

 

The decoder also has extra wires this time for a ‘stay alive’ capacitor, any accessories and a blue ground lead for these. None of which I need at this time so they were tidied up full length. Kapton tape used to hold things in place as it does not retain heat allowing the decoder to ‘breath’ and not overheat as insulation tape could do.

 

And finally on the test track, and yes it did work first time!

[Mallard60022]

22 hours ago, RFS said:

One issue worth mentioning that applies to both 34041 Wilton and my 34067 Tangmere is that they are early China builds and hence have 14.2mm back-to-back wheel measurements instead of the later 14,5mm. This can cause issues with scale track such as Peco code 75, in particular DCC shorts on slips and crossings. I had to ease mine out to 14.5m to eliminate this problem. 

Thanks a lot matey. Forewarned is deffo forearmed for me with C75.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Mallard60022

[Mallard60022]

14 hours ago, Wilton 34041 said:

This is an edited version of an article I wrote for Brighton Model Railway Club Newsletter on how I put DCC sound into a Hornby 'Wilton'. I don't say this is the only way but it is what I did and it works well. I did have more photos in the original but I've had terrible trouble getting them to up-load.

If anyone knows how to get the file size small enough or what type please say.

 

I used an MX645 sound decoder with wheel slip function,  and a speaker and eight pin socket all from Digitrains. I've been looking for the part numbers but since putting them away safely I can't find the docs. with the details!! When they come to light I'll add them in.

I wouldn't have the wheel slip function if I do another one as it's too eager to come on. I wish I knew of a CV to adjust it with. 

             

Sound for ‘Wilton’ a Hornby West country – DCC into a Pre DCC ready Locomotive.

 

‘Wilton’ is an early version of the Hornby West Country range of models so has no provision for DCC at all. No socket for DCC ready as later models do. I wanted to fit not only DCC but DCC sound and this is the account of how I have done it very recently, although I’ve had the sound chip for some time.

 

It is possible to ‘hard wire’ a decoder to the chassis in this sort of situation but I wanted it to be more flexible in the way of options. So I bought an eight pin socket to (match the decoder) on a harness to fit to the chassis and motor such that if I needed to in the future I could change the decoder or indeed remove it and fit a blanking plug reverting to DC analogue easily.

 

Now there is plenty of room within the original W/C body for the electrics required (thankfully) and the decoder can sit on top of the front ballast weight, however, another of my requirements was to keep everything in the loco. I wasn’t prepared to add extra wiring across to the tender for the speaker as more recent models do. It already has tender pick-ups so no issues there.

 

The space under the chimney is ideal but not quite the right shape for the speaker so some modification is required. Taking the front ballast weight off and cutting a piece off the front lower corner does the trick.

 

All the original wires were taken off including the suppressor, I took a photo first in case I needed a reference later. 

Ok so now it’s down to assembling the electronics, keeping it electrically safe and tidy.

The loom on the plug is first to fit. There are more wires than I needed for this conversion so I separated out the extra ones and left them full length. They are for functions like head and tail lights and firebox glow which I’m not fitting now but I left them long for options later if I want to. I only need the red, orange, black and grey for pick-ups and motor. The wires are far too long for this loco so they were reduced by half their length. The original chassis earth to the weight retaining screw was reused

 

 Black Tack holds the plug in place and Kapton tape holds the wiring.

Next comes the decoder. With any work on something like this ESD (Electro Static Discharge) precautions must be taken. I have a metal wrist band connected to a 1 Meg resisted earth plug to discharge any static I have accumulated in my clothes.

 

I now soldered the speaker to the purple wires after shortening them. As it’s a one speaker system polarity doesn’t come into it. The whole can now be assembled to the chassis and the speaker held in place with black tack. 

 

The decoder also has extra wires this time for a ‘stay alive’ capacitor, any accessories and a blue ground lead for these. None of which I need at this time so they were tidied up full length. Kapton tape used to hold things in place as it does not retain heat allowing the decoder to ‘breath’ and not overheat as insulation tape could do.

 

And finally on the test track, and yes it did work first time!

Thank the Lord for Spam CANS with all that space eh? Excellent job and thank you for your time and effort. 

 

At the moment I'm planning on using the 8 Pin socket I mentioned and some inexpensive, direct 8 Pins Decs from Soundtrax via Coastal DCC and some Mini Zens for when I've sussed the fitting (as they are more expensive!).

All the best,

Phil

 

[Wilton 34041]

Phil

For your socket the wiring convention looking at it as two columns of four from the top is: 

Top left is No 1 - orange wire.  Motor right 

No 2 yellow - rear light

No3 none - blank

No4 black - left rail (pick up)

 

Second column

Top right is No 8 - red. Right rail pick up.

No 7 - blue. Common negative for accessories.

No 6 - white. Front light.

No 5 - grey. Motor left.

 

Motor connections are such that the left and right refer to the chassis. So which ever one went to the left pickup originally that is now ' motor left'. If it responds on the track the wrong way just swap them over at the motor.

I hope this helps and I have explained it ok. Any questions please ask.

 

Cheers,

Phil B.

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by Wilton 34041
Added sign off

[Mallard60022]

3 hours ago, Wilton 34041 said:

Phil

For your socket the wiring convention looking at it as two columns of four from the top is: 

Top left is No 1 - orange wire.  Motor right 

No 2 yellow - rear light

No3 none - blank

No4 black - left rail (pick up)

 

Second column

Top right is No 8 - red. Right rail pick up.

No 7 - blue. Common negative for accessories.

No 6 - white. Front light.

No 5 - grey. Motor left.

 

Motor connections are such that the left and right refer to the chassis. So which ever one went to the left pickup originally that is now ' motor left'. If it responds on the track the wrong way just swap them over at the motor.

I hope this helps and I have explained it ok. Any questions please ask.

 

Cheers,

Phil B.

You are psychic Phil. I was just about to ask exactly this. I was going to say does the existing wire to the chassis go to No7 or to the chassis as on DC (as it is now). I believe you have confirmed that it does not and hoes to No 7. Confirmed?

I wont need 2 or 6.

Once I have done this I will have a very basic knowledge of hard wiring...hopefully.

I am probably not going to be doing it for a few weeks though due to hip op and no access to Loft (2/3 monthsish). However, if my sockets come Monday I might just attempt to do this first one, using a 'cheap' Decoder! It might keep me occupied :)

Thanks

the other Phil

[Butler Henderson]

Conversely I have often removed the socket from Hornby locos; the space gained widening the choice of decoder as well as allowing for far neater wiring than the spiders web all too commonly found. 

[Wilton 34041]

Err, no Phil. No 7 (blue wire) is for accessory common only - like lights.

 On mine the (grey) wire to the top brush contact on the motor goes to No 5.

The (orange) wire to the lower brush contact on the motor goes to No 1. which was on mine the wire to the chassis.

This gave me the regular direction control it had on DC.

I've now found the appropriate diagram;

 

 

They say a picture is worth a thousand words so this should make my words clearer.

 

3 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Conversely I have often removed the socket from Hornby locos; the space gained widening the choice of decoder as well as allowing for far neater wiring than the spiders web all too commonly found. 

Very true Mr Henderson, the choice of different decoders may be important in some cases but as this was the first time I had converted a Non DCC ready steam loco (having converted diesels before) I wanted to keep my options open for adding accessories by keeping the longer wiring, after all these Bulleids had electric lights so I might add working head code lights later . 

Nothing is permanent so I can tidy this later and now in future with this experience I will probably cut the wiring very much shorter and neater. 

 

I find this DCC aspect very interesting,

Cheers to you both, 

Phil B.

[Butler Henderson]

In terms of usng the accessory outputs of decoder that can typically require hard wiring anyway as their is often a  ninth wire (purple)  which an 8 pin socket cannot cater for.

[Mallard60022]

16 hours ago, Wilton 34041 said:

Err, no Phil. No 7 (blue wire) is for accessory common only - like lights.

 On mine the (grey) wire to the top brush contact on the motor goes to No 5.

The (orange) wire to the lower brush contact on the motor goes to No 1. which was on mine the wire to the chassis.

This gave me the regular direction control it had on DC.

I've now found the appropriate diagram;

 

 

They say a picture is worth a thousand words so this should make my words clearer.

 

Very true Mr Henderson, the choice of different decoders may be important in some cases but as this was the first time I had converted a Non DCC ready steam loco (having converted diesels before) I wanted to keep my options open for adding accessories by keeping the longer wiring, after all these Bulleids had electric lights so I might add working head code lights later . 

Nothing is permanent so I can tidy this later and now in future with this experience I will probably cut the wiring very much shorter and neater. 

 

I find this DCC aspect very interesting,

Cheers to you both, 

Phil B.

Good job you are here. I would be blowing my layout apart otherwise and possibly the Grid Structure to North Notts. 

So let me just confirm: the lower wire you mention (orange), which I can see on my loco but is black & goes to the Chassis and a screw to the chassis itself,  NOW goes to the  No 1?

Do remember I was so useless at Physics at school the only question I ever answered correctly was about a flange on a railway loco/stock wheel! Anything to do with trickery was, and almost still is, a complete blank. So sorry!

So many thanks for the help yet again.

the other Phil

 

[Mallard60022]

21 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Conversely I have often removed the socket from Hornby locos; the space gained widening the choice of decoder as well as allowing for far neater wiring than the spiders web all too commonly found. 

I might try that with one Harness decoder, as I only need two functions.

Cheers BH.

Phil (the other one).

[Wilton 34041]

That is correct Phil and the chassis screw wire now goes to No 8.

 

cheers,

Phil B.

 

 

[Mallard60022]

Just an update. Delay due to Hip Replacement June 20th. 6 weeks and almost back to my normal abnormal. 

I have successfully hardwired the first Wilton Conversion. Bit of a faff but the Base sockets I bought are superb and fit a Spam can with room to spare. I have used the Black gunge and Tape as advised; excellent products. Cut the wires from the Tender on this one; loco still picks up easily. Only had to split the two wires from Chassis to motor and thus solder 4 joints as tis is just a simple  conversion with no sound or gismos.

It will become 34038 Lynton as that fits the bill for my required era. Doing that tomorrow.

Thanks for the info all.

Phil

[Wilton 34041]

Great news Phil, first that your op was successful and you're mobile again.

Second that you've converted Wilton to DCC successfully, it gives a sense of satisfaction I find when it moves for the first time.

Best wishes

Phil B.

[Mallard60022]

On 04/08/2022 at 14:57, Wilton 34041 said:

Great news Phil, first that your op was successful and you're mobile again.

Second that you've converted Wilton to DCC successfully, it gives a sense of satisfaction I find when it moves for the first time.

Best wishes

Phil B.

Thanks Phil. 

Yup, almost 7 weeks  now and walking without Crutches and sticks and trying not to 'limp'. Changed my life in many ways as I have been crock for a good 6 years with Covid years an absolute waste of my life. 

Ref the Spam. I decided I'd reinstate the Tender pick ups as it sounded simply two wires to the 'Track' left and Right pads on the Baseplate. I prepped the new wiring with a split from old to new (Shrink tube in place ready). First I soldered them to the Motor pad before realising; doh! Unsoldered those and redid them correctly. Then one of the original wires came off the Drawhook/Tender link. Resoldered that!  

Checked the loco was running OK on the RR before joining new wires. It was misbehaving but I think it is actually my Lead from DCC source to NCE handheld is not that clever. Sorted that and eventually rememberd which number I was supposed to be entering (4038 NOT 4048). Got it running.  then I just tested which tender link wire went with the wires attached to the Base Plate by touch in them together. I hade guessed correctly that left went to left and right to right; did not cause a whoosh of blue smoke just a very small short on touching the wrong two.  Then I soldered the two 'split connections' and did the Heatshrink over that joint, taped the little loose amount of wire sag to the Motor body.

Tested the Chassis and Tender joined on the RR. Success and much more lively.  Replaced the Loco Body (one screw as you know), remembered to reattach the Speedo Cable and got it right position first time for a change; new wires did not foul the internals. Tested on the RR again; still fine. 

Onto the mainline and whoosh, like a rocket it is now, so the Tender does make a difference.

From this I learned that the test for the Tender wire polarity on my 3/4 other conversions should be/will be an easy task. (Crosses fingers). Also that the Hornby Tender wires are very thin indeed with feeble solder joints.

So thank you again. The satisfaction from a trickery numpty like me, is large.

 I am motived to get on now.

ATB

Phil

 

[Wilton 34041]

That's so good Phil, we all go through those sort of experiences when working through electrics for the first time. So pleased it's successful, you're be on to more of them now the bug has bitten - I know I have.

ATB 

Phil B.