BR engineers wagons straw lettering

[Steadfast]

Hi all,

 

The 1950s and 60s is a period of the railways I don't know a great deal about. Google hasn't been a great deal of help either, largely pictures of models.

 

I've been asked to produce some decals for wagons with straw lettering for black wagons, but its hard to tell, once faded and weathered, whats white and what's cream.

 

I know the livery bits applied at build (such as running number, regional allocations such as EW etc) would be straw, but guessing things like the builders plate, hand applied "Return to XYZ" lettering would be white?

 

Not knowing the subject doesn't help, but I'm finding it hard to decipher on pictures which is which.

 

Many thanks

 

Jo

[cctransuk]

15 minutes ago, Steadfast said:

Hi all,

 

The 1950s and 60s is a period of the railways I don't know a great deal about. Google hasn't been a great deal of help either, largely pictures of models.

 

I've been asked to produce some decals for wagons with straw lettering for black wagons, but its hard to tell, once faded and weathered, whats white and what's cream.

 

I know the livery bits applied at build (such as running number, regional allocations such as EW etc) would be straw, but guessing things like the builders plate, hand applied "Return to XYZ" lettering would be white?

 

Not knowing the subject doesn't help, but I'm finding it hard to decipher on pictures which is which.

 

Many thanks

 

Jo

 

During the black / straw period, all lettering was straw.

 

Straw faded to pale cream, and later alteration / repainting of some lettering was often white.

 

It's impossible to tell from monochrome photos what is what!

 

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

[Steadfast]

Many thanks for that.

 

I presume this job by Heljan is far too yellow?

https://www.hattons.co.uk/416912/heljan_4350_po_db992531_in_engineers_black_catfish_pre_owned_like_new/stockdetail

 

Jo

[Phil Bullock]

5 hours ago, Steadfast said:

Many thanks for that.

 

I presume this job by Heljan is far too yellow?

https://www.hattons.co.uk/416912/heljan_4350_po_db992531_in_engineers_black_catfish_pre_owned_like_new/stockdetail

 

Jo

Compared to  Cctransuk’s straw transfers yes those are too yellow. White not straw builders plate is probably correct though…..

[The Stationmaster]

10 hours ago, Steadfast said:

Many thanks for that.

 

I presume this job by Heljan is far too yellow?

https://www.hattons.co.uk/416912/heljan_4350_po_db992531_in_engineers_black_catfish_pre_owned_like_new/stockdetail

 

Jo

The tone of the straw lettering seemed to vary quite a lot and sometimes it appeared more like yellow that straw especially when recently painted.  Builder's plates were invariably white on black from what I saw in those days.

[hmrspaul]

Where did the idea that this an incipient "Straw" come from?

 

Certainly in 1959 the BR instructions are very clear. Lettering - Apply where necessary Yellow lining paint to B.R. specification no. 32A Item 43. The paint mixing instructions says that Yellow lining paint is Colour to B.S.C. 356. )

 

If you look at official photos of black painted wagons the lettering is very "strong and noticeable" Straw wouldn't do that would it?

I suspect Heljan have it right - and some of their models used photos I've posted on my site. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brdogfish/e3df8464b

 

Nearly 20 years after manufacture this appears to have  worn yellow lettering https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sharkzuv/e14e07142

 

I do agree that there is a lot of later writing on departmental wagons and that was often in white. 

 

Paul

[Phil Bullock]

Straw = faded yellow then?

[cctransuk]

14 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

Where did the idea that this an incipient "Straw" come from?

 

Certainly in 1959 the BR instructions are very clear. Lettering - Apply where necessary Yellow lining paint to B.R. specification no. 32A Item 43. The paint mixing instructions says that Yellow lining paint is Colour to B.S.C. 356. )

 

If you look at official photos of black painted wagons the lettering is very "strong and noticeable" Straw wouldn't do that would it?

I suspect Heljan have it right - and some of their models used photos I've posted on my site. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brdogfish/e3df8464b

 

Nearly 20 years after manufacture this appears to have  worn yellow lettering https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sharkzuv/e14e07142

 

I do agree that there is a lot of later writing on departmental wagons and that was often in white. 

 

Paul

 

Paul,

 

I produce my 'straw yellow' lettering transfers for black liveried departmental vehicles by printing one pass of translucent yellow over white.

 

When applied over a black substrate, this produces lettering that is one shade down from 'golden yellow' (BSC 356). With some light weathering, the final appearance is of an in-service, but reasonably maintained, vehicle. Unweathered, the finish is ex-works, without being too 'in your face'.

 

A pragmatic compromise, I think!

 

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

Edited June 18, 2022 by cctransuk

[Steadfast]

3 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

Where did the idea that this an incipient "Straw" come from?

 

Certainly in 1959 the BR instructions are very clear. Lettering - Apply where necessary Yellow lining paint to B.R. specification no. 32A Item 43. The paint mixing instructions says that Yellow lining paint is Colour to B.S.C. 356. )

 

If you look at official photos of black painted wagons the lettering is very "strong and noticeable" Straw wouldn't do that would it?

I suspect Heljan have it right - and some of their models used photos I've posted on my site. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brdogfish/e3df8464b

 

Nearly 20 years after manufacture this appears to have  worn yellow lettering https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sharkzuv/e14e07142

 

I do agree that there is a lot of later writing on departmental wagons and that was often in white. 

 

Paul

Looks like I've opened a bit of a can of worms on the shade! 

 

Black with Straw lettering is a description I've heard in books and magazines, though as mentioned previously, is an era I know next to nothing about. It is also the description I was asked to produce.

 

The picture of the shark shows part of my uncertainty, as the faded lettering and grubby white handrails are close in colour. On dirtier wagons it's even harder to tell the difference between faded yellow or grubby white lettering! 

 

Thanks again for all the discussion folks.

 

Jo