Can't change loco address on z21

[Zoli]

 

Hi everyone,

 

I got some trouble with changing loco addresses on my z21 white. 

 

I am just getting into DCC and spent hours trying to change the factory addresses on my locos. 

I am using the z21 app with the dark background which should be the right one. 

 

I've recently updated the firmware as well with a separate app.

 

When I am in programming mode the indicator is solid green. 

 

I go into CV programming, then programming track, manual then program address. When I press read it gives 9999.

After I change it to 5 and press set. A bit of processing with green light and it seems fine but the address actually doesn't change and the loco is still on No 3. The controls work perfectly fine with the factory setting.

 

Am I missing something or this needs to be done so where else? 

I went through every single option in the app but no luck. 

 

I am using a laisdcc plux22 6 function decoder. 

 

Any help would be much appreciated!

ReplyForward

Edited July 23, 2022 by Zoli

[WIMorrison]

The default address stored in CV1 should be 3 and not 9999. I suggest that you are not reading the loco decoder.

 

Have created a bit of track that is entirely separated from the rest of the layout which is ONLY connected to the z21 to use as a programming track. Your layout must not be connected to the z21 when you are trying to program decoders.

[Zoli]

Thanks for the quick reply!

This is happening on small programming track. Nothing else is plugged in to it and only a single loco on the track. 

 

I've just tried setting the value without reading it but the result is the same.

I've added a screenshot where I am trying to set the address just to make sure I'm on the right menu. The 9999 appears here in the middle when I read the decoder first. 

 

 

58 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

The default address stored in CV1 should be 3 and not 9999. I suggest that you are not reading the loco decoder.

 

Have created a bit of track that is entirely separated from the rest of the layout which is ONLY connected to the z21 to use as a programming track. Your layout must not be connected to the z21 when you are trying to program decoders.

 

[jamesed]

The z21 (white) doesn't have a separate programming track output. The programming track option in the app isn't the correct one to use. That's for using with the Z21 (black) which does have the separate output..  Try using Programming On Main menu in the app and it should work. 

[WIMorrison]

You do not want to use the POM choice, this is not designed for what you want to do.

 

you should use the Manual option, followed by Program track

[jamesed]

Iain, am I missing something here? Surely if the z21 doesn't have a programming track set of outputs, and the only set of bus outputs are for a main track, then the program track menu in the app doesn"t do anything. Therefore the only option you have in manual changes is to use the POM option.

 

My own system is a Z21 (black) so I don't have that issue but surely that must be the problem for the OP who only has the white z21.. 

[WIMorrison]

I’m sorry but you are missing something very fundamental. The z21 has, like many controllers, only one output that you need to switch with a DPDT switch between the main layout and the programming track. The Z21 does this internally and automatically providing you with two outputs.

 

The other option for a z21 is to simply unplug the layout from the rear and plug in a specific program track, however none of this appears to be the OP’s issue because he is reading 9999 from somewhere.

 

Program on Main is something completely different, and he needs to use the correct part of the app as I described.

[Zoli]

I tried both ways and the result is the same. When I am setting the address after the programming it does show that the address has been changed but when I try to go to steering it is still on default. I tried with a different loco which has an 8pin decoder but without change.

 

I took a picture of my setup the 2 locos and a screen capture(I just realized now that I can't upload MP4 so I did screenshots of each step) as I am trying to change the address. I am using the default set locos to control at the moment. The throttle animation works on the last image I just captured it too soon.

 

I did the read CV option just to show. I also tried to set the CV without reading it first.

 

Let me know if I am doing something wrong. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Zoli
Missed info

[Harlequin]

The other variable in this equation is the LaisDCC decoder.

 

Have you tried to set the addresses of any other makes of decoder?

 

 

[WIMorrison]

The pictures are pretty, but without a narrative explaining what you are doing in each one it is hard to work out what you are doing. What I have worked out is that you are using Program Address rather than Program Track and simply reading CV1 to see what the actual value is. 

 

I suggest that you try Cv Programming, Manual, Program Track, and read CV1 to see the value returned, then try to write the address into the decoder.

 

Can you also confirm that the blue light on the front changes to a green light when you read and write CV1?

[RobinofLoxley]

I have had the same problem changing addresses on my z21. I have 100% Zimo decoders. I followed Iain's instructions. The point about the light showing green is most important. 

 

If the process doesn't work the first time, repeat it. I thought I was going mad with the Digikeijs dr4018 accessory decoders until somebody posted that they usually needed several attempts to program a turnout. There is nothing to tell you if the step has been executed correctly after you hit write, you have to operate the item, if it doesn't work as programmed you have to repeat the step.

 

I find being older I can't remember how I did each specific task when I come back to repeat it. The repeat being weeks after.

 

My Android phone is on the limit for compatibility with the app and that concerns me. 

[jpendle]

Hi,

 

Does the loco move and can you control the lights at address 3?

When you program the loco does it judder? Acknowledgement pulses from the decoder should cause the loco to move a little when it's being programmed.

CV's 17 & 18 are reading back 255, 255 or all 1's, that's not right either.

Have you tried reading back any other CV's, CV29 should never read 255. CV 8 should read 134?

 

Regards,

 

John P

[Zoli]

On the previous time is was indeed in the programming address menu  

 

I've been going through it now as you described. CV programming, manual, programming track. 

 

When I do read here the value is 255(picture). When I set it to a different number for the first time it seems it changes it but effectively doesn't. When I try to either read or set the second time it seems it is locked in the programming loop(picture). I need to force shut the programming with the indicator on the app in the top right as it takes minutes and nothing is happening. The indicator light is green when I perform read or set. 

 

I also tried more locos with different decoders and one of them gives ticking sounds in regular intervals when locked in the cycle described above. 

 

All locomotives moves and lights are working fine whilst using default address 3. 

[WIMorrison]

I suggest that you try to reset the decoder back to the original default values which would normally require writing a value of 8 to CV8. However because this is a LAIS decoder (who don’t follow NMRA standards) you nee to write a blue of 4 to CV8.

 

https://laisdcc.com/LaisDcc_Decoders_Manual_V2.pdf

 

 

 

 

[Zoli]

I've tried to reset them but no use.

I also have one 8 pin Train O'matic decoder which behaves the same way. 

 

The first decoder I bought last year when I got the z21 was a plux22 LAIS. Somehow I managed to change the address on this decoder to 1 and it is working fine ever since. I only had 2 locos at the time so I didn't really revisited programming.

 

When I am reading the address of this loco it gives 255 like all the others but it is definitely on 1. 

 

 

 

 

[Izzy]

Whenever I have had incorrect readings from decoders on the program track this has always been because something was faulty with the wiring setup somewhere, residual current leakage of some kind, so less than a full blown short. The locos ran quite okay on a layout, just gave gobbledegook cv returns on the program track when read because of the low current values used.

 

I have no knowledge of z21/Z21’s but I see there is the option to POM and I just wondered if you have tried that to change the loco address. Sometimes this works when doing it via the program track won’t. I’ve occasionally had odd decoder makes that won’t respond on the program track with address changes when changing other cv’s works quite okay. It might be worth a try seeing you seem to be in this chicken & egg situation of not knowing whether the decoders or system are at fault here somehow. It’s not easy finding answers when like that.

 

Bob

[WIMorrison]

@Zoli Unfortunately we don't know where you live to offer suggestions on how to get one-to-one help by someone physically showing you what to do. You are clearly missing out a step somewhere, either in the wiring of the z21, or the use of the z21 app because I know that the instructions I gave earlier work. Several people have had issues before and in each, and every case, these same instructions have enabled people to program their locos correctly. 

 

The only way I see to resolve this now is for you to either a) start from the beginning - remove all wiring, clean the track, reconnect, use the manual program choice on app, then program track and try to read the CV (CONFIRMING that the light on the z21 goes green) and see the value that you get. If this doesnt work then you will need to get someone to come and show you how to do it.

 

This video shows exactly how to program a loco using the same instructions that I provided above. (I think it is being run on a Chromebook, or in an Android emulator, hence appearing to be on a PC)

 

 

[meil]

Alternatively buy a SPROG and download DecoderPro.

 

Far and away the easiest way to programme locos.

[WIMorrison]

4 minutes ago, meil said:

Alternatively buy a SPROG and download DecoderPro.

 

Far and away the easiest way to programme locos.

That relies on the user have information a PC beside the railway, knowledge of software installation, and most importantly a working programming track. When he makes the programming track work he has no requirement for the additional complexities that you suggest.

[meil]

3 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

That relies on the user have information a PC beside the railway, knowledge of software installation, and most importantly a working programming track. When he makes the programming track work he has no requirement for the additional complexities that you suggest.

"That relies on the user have information a PC" ??

 

A programming track is just a short length of track on a piece of strip wood - so I haven't a clue as to what a working programming track is. The programming track can be taken to the PC.

 

The advantage of a SPROG is that all settings  are saved for each loco. Further each CV is explained in English what it does so all manner of things can be adjusted, such as speed tables and curves very easily.

 

Far easier than putting numbers into CVs.

[WIMorrison]

Might be useful if you read the thread to see what the issues are, then you wouldn't suggest an overcomplicated solution that assumes many things, and does not resolve the OP question.

[Nigelcliffe]

26 minutes ago, meil said:

"That relies on the user have information a PC" ??

 

A programming track is just a short length of track on a piece of strip wood - so I haven't a clue as to what a working programming track is. The programming track can be taken to the PC.

 

The advantage of a SPROG is that all settings  are saved for each loco. Further each CV is explained in English what it does so all manner of things can be adjusted, such as speed tables and curves very easily.

 

Far easier than putting numbers into CVs.

 

 

I agree with Iain, get the current setup working, don't confuse things with more stuff.   

The problem here is a user who has a z21 which isn't reading or writing to locos. 
That can be because its faulty (possible, but there is little evidence of fault, and a report that it did work in the past), or because of an error in the setup and/or use.  

 

 

Adding another system into the loop doesn't help at this stage: more stuff for more confusion.   (I've been a user of Sprog devices for well over 15 years, and a designer of a few parts of the JMRI/DecoderPro software.  It is the device on my bench, but I don't think it helps with this problem.).  

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Nigelcliffe
spelling

[NickC]

On 26/07/2022 at 09:07, meil said:

Alternatively buy a SPROG and download DecoderPro.

 

Far and away the easiest way to programme locos.

DecoderPro works quite happily with a Z21 (and a z21) - assuming you have PC to run DecoderPro on! But this isn’t the issue at hand…

[Zoli]

I cleaned the track, unplugged and checked the feeder wire, unplugged the decoders cleaned the pcb boards and plugged them back. I did this with all my locos.

The green lights are working while read/set.  

I've uloaded a video as I was trying to set it.

I aslo tried to change the acceleration and deceleration but the result is the same, all read 255 and can't be changed.

 

I don't know if there is anything else I can miss. This z21 has no other output where I could plug smething in the wrong way.

 

I am livig in London. Anyone has any idea where could I take it to get a one to one help?

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Zoli

[jpendle]

Hi,

 

The first thing I can see is that the loco does not 'judder' or move slightly when you are programming it, this should ALWAYS happen as it is the result of acknowledgement pulses sent back to the z21. You also get an error message when reading CV2.

 

I suspect that the decoder is faulty.

 

Regards,

 

John P