Greenford in 00 Gauge: Circa 2010-2017 (FGW, Chiltern, LU, Virgin + Plenty of Freight)

[EWS60065]

@WCML100 Sounds great, nice slow pulling away too. Couldn't help noticing the missing axleboxes, I have the same problem on my Hattons 66! Hopefully this will be rectified in Accurascale's version - speaking of which I'm looking at getting one in GBRf, only annoyance is the printed nameplate which will make renumbering difficult.

[McC]

32 minutes ago, EWS60065 said:

@WCML100 Sounds great, nice slow pulling away too. Couldn't help noticing the missing axleboxes, I have the same problem on my Hattons 66! Hopefully this will be rectified in Accurascale's version - speaking of which I'm looking at getting one in GBRf, only annoyance is the printed nameplate which will make renumbering difficult.

The printing will rub off with a cotton swab and a little water 

Edited September 15, 2023 by McC

[EWS60065]

34 minutes ago, McC said:

The printing will rub off with a cotton swab and a little water 

Good to hear, I've found some finishes very difficult to remove particularly older Bachmann stuff. Out of interest will you guys ever be doing a second batch of the 66s? 

[McC]

24 minutes ago, EWS60065 said:

Good to hear, I've found some finishes very difficult to remove particularly older Bachmann stuff. Out of interest will you guys ever be doing a second batch of the 66s? 

Absolutely. At least once every year / 18 months

[WCML100]

4 hours ago, EWS60065 said:

@WCML100 Sounds great, nice slow pulling away too. Couldn't help noticing the missing axleboxes, I have the same problem on my Hattons 66! Hopefully this will be rectified in Accurascale's version - speaking of which I'm looking at getting one in GBRf, only annoyance is the printed nameplate which will make renumbering difficult.

 

@Chris37044 has the GBRF example from accurascale on order, and I also have EWS 66171 on order too.

 

Im sure the niggles of the very realistic hattons 66 have been ironed out by accurascale on their release of this brilliant tooling!

 

Regarding the axle boxes, track 3d parts do make some spares which I am going to buy in due course!

[Chris37044]

Recently I took delivery of 97301 in Network Rail livery. This is the brilliant accurascale model and I was lucky enough to get a sound fitted example of this run. 

 

It looks great, the depth to the bogies are something else, the incredible detail in the form of the etched seperate metal kick plates down to the prototypical dim lights. The chains on the bogies look really good too, along with really crisp printing of the logos and numbers across the body. 

 

I have always liked the Network Rail yellow fleet and 97301 was an ideal candidate for Greenford as it has ran down the line in test trains on numerous occasions during our modelled period. One of my favoured workings was in March 2012 which featured a nice rake of yellow stock, working top and tail with DRS 37261 (another loco on the hitlist at some point!). I have featured a couple of photos linked from flickr and a video from youtube of the working along the Greenford branch and New North Mainline. I will be working on replicating the coaching stock for this rake in the coming months.

 

Bellow are some photos of the new arrival on the layout (with a Network Rail DBSO for good measure!) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WCML100]

So, some actual workbench progress. If you have been following the thread, you would know I have had several projects on the go! Well this is the first of many to be completed, and ironically was one started more recently out of the bunch!

 

Here we have a Hattons FEA-E in Freightliner Green (FEAE 641058) and for use within my Freightliner Cricklewood / Dagenham to Calvert Binliner train (& return). This is the first of the all FEA-E rake, which will total at 15 wagons long. I did want to model a rake with mixed type of intermodal wagons but there is not an offering of the FRA type. No problem as there have been full rakes of FEA-E’s, one of which I have included a Youtube video at the bottom of this post for reference. 
 

Anyways to the wagon in question FEA-E 641058. This one was a bit of a test bed as I haven’t really done any proper weathering before, it is worth mentioning it isn’t the best job in the world but will do for me. I have tried to copy images where possible of the type for reference and model it in a fairly dirty condition (as most of these wagons usually are). I will be doing various levels of ‘dirty’ throughout this FEA-E rake as they seemed to be like that during the period of modelling and on the Calvert Binliners. 
 

First i started off with the wagon in new condition, a very bright green. Where they ever this bright even when new out of the factory? Who know’s..! Firstly, using Railmatch Spray Paints, I coated the wagon in Matt Varnish. This toned the wagon immediately, although this photo wouldn’t suggest that.

 

 

Followed by a coat of Frame dirt on the top, sides and ends of the wagon.

 

 

Next up another coat of grime but this time the ‘weathered black’ colour. I applied this to the under side and bogies separately after removing them. You can see the difference in colour between the too quite clearly here.
 

 

I gave it one more coat of frame dirt on the tops, ends and sides to ensure all the corners were covered well. While the bogies were removed I used Tamiya flat green to paint up the axle boxes as per the prototype - something which wasn’t done by Hattons. This simple addition really gave the bogies some depth.

 

 

After this, it was time to take back some of the weathering to reveal the Freightliner logos, TOPS codes, and a few other small details. Again following the prototype images on flickr for reference. I then painted up the grab rails underneath each buffer in white, something else which was missed by hattons as they were in the same green as the body. I also painted the lamp irons which were also missed. Finishing touches was bringing the buffers back to black and then adding the buffer beam pipes. 
 

Bellow are some photos of the wagon completed on the layout behind @Chris37044’s Hattons 66502. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And that’s that. The first proper weathering project done. Next for this wagon (and the others in the rake) once I have weathered (and sourced) them all, will be the waste containers that sit on top of them. There are x2 types and one is available as 3d print on ebay so might get some of these soon to try out. The other type isn’t currently available in any form so I hope this changes at some point in the future.
 

I have included the real life prototype below and a video of the rake in action which regularly passed Greenford until December 2014 when the contract passed to DB. We are planning a couple of DB rakes too in due course, hopefully someone will release a FCA wagon soon!

FEA-E 641058 in container traffic:

 

 

A full FEA-E rake on the return journey of the Calvert Binliner passing West Ruislip before passing Greenford a little further down the line. Interestingly this one is top and tailed by 66’s…
 

 

Thats it for now. More updates on the way shortly! I hope this more longer post type explaining my work and showing the real life prototypes proves a little more interesting than one image a short description! Let me know what you think! Thanks

[Moonter]

14 minutes ago, WCML100 said:

Thats it for now. More updates on the way shortly! I hope this more longer post type explaining my work and showing the real life prototypes proves a little more interesting than one image a short description! Let me know what you think! Thanks

 

Good job on the wagon.

I like these longer step-by-step posts. For a beginner like me it is really useful to see the intermediate steps. And to be able to compare them to the real thing (easily and without having to repeat the research myself) is also useful. Thank you.

[EWS60065]

Lovely work on the FEA, I think the result is very convincing and sometimes a simple approach is best on container wagons (especially when you need to fo 15 of them!). Any updates on the KFA with track panels?

[NickL2008]

On 18/09/2023 at 18:18, Chris37044 said:

Recently I took delivery of 97301 in Network Rail livery. This is the brilliant accurascale model and I was lucky enough to get a sound fitted example of this run. 

 

It looks great, the depth to the bogies are something else, the incredible detail in the form of the etched seperate metal kick plates down to the prototypical dim lights. The chains on the bogies look really good too, along with really crisp printing of the logos and numbers across the body. 

 

I have always liked the Network Rail yellow fleet and 97301 was an ideal candidate for Greenford as it has ran down the line in test trains on numerous occasions during our modelled period. One of my favoured workings was in March 2012 which featured a nice rake of yellow stock, working top and tail with DRS 37261 (another loco on the hitlist at some point!). I have featured a couple of photos linked from flickr and a video from youtube of the working along the Greenford branch and New North Mainline. I will be working on replicating the coaching stock for this rake in the coming months.

 

Bellow are some photos of the new arrival on the layout (with a Network Rail DBSO for good measure!) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah yes, I remember that, that was a good afternoon, had lovely weather and was happy to finally get 37261 and 97301 and the fact it fell on my day off too was an added bonus! the Greenford cleared out of the way just in time when 261 came southbound much to my releif in the second shot

 

NL

 

[WCML100]

On 20/09/2023 at 16:07, Moonter said:

 

Good job on the wagon.

I like these longer step-by-step posts. For a beginner like me it is really useful to see the intermediate steps. And to be able to compare them to the real thing (easily and without having to repeat the research myself) is also useful. Thank you.

 

Thanks - I am glad it is useful!

 

 

11 hours ago, EWS60065 said:

Lovely work on the FEA, I think the result is very convincing and sometimes a simple approach is best on container wagons (especially when you need to fo 15 of them!). Any updates on the KFA with track panels?

 

Thanks, yes I feel intermodal wagons are a good test bed, especially where they are usually several shades darker than their original body colour... Most of them are just a shade of brown / grey these days! KFA is complete all but the TOPS code so more on that soon 😄

 

 

11 hours ago, NickL2008 said:

 

Ah yes, I remember that, that was a good afternoon, had lovely weather and was happy to finally get 37261 and 97301 and the fact it fell on my day off too was an added bonus! the Greenford cleared out of the way just in time when 261 came southbound much to my releif in the second shot

 

NL

 

 

Certainly made for good viewing, a nice satisfying test train this one 😄

 

[Chris37044]

On 20/09/2023 at 15:50, WCML100 said:

So, some actual workbench progress. If you have been following the thread, you would know I have had several projects on the go! Well this is the first of many to be completed, and ironically was one started more recently out of the bunch!

 

Here we have a Hattons FEA-E in Freightliner Green (FEAE 641058) and for use within my Freightliner Cricklewood / Dagenham to Calvert Binliner train (& return). This is the first of the all FEA-E rake, which will total at 15 wagons long. I did want to model a rake with mixed type of intermodal wagons but there is not an offering of the FRA type. No problem as there have been full rakes of FEA-E’s, one of which I have included a Youtube video at the bottom of this post for reference. 
 

Anyways to the wagon in question FEA-E 641058. This one was a bit of a test bed as I haven’t really done any proper weathering before, it is worth mentioning it isn’t the best job in the world but will do for me. I have tried to copy images where possible of the type for reference and model it in a fairly dirty condition (as most of these wagons usually are). I will be doing various levels of ‘dirty’ throughout this FEA-E rake as they seemed to be like that during the period of modelling and on the Calvert Binliners. 
 

First i started off with the wagon in new condition, a very bright green. Where they ever this bright even when new out of the factory? Who know’s..! Firstly, using Railmatch Spray Paints, I coated the wagon in Matt Varnish. This toned the wagon immediately, although this photo wouldn’t suggest that.

 

 

Followed by a coat of Frame dirt on the top, sides and ends of the wagon.

 

 

Next up another coat of grime but this time the ‘weathered black’ colour. I applied this to the under side and bogies separately after removing them. You can see the difference in colour between the too quite clearly here.
 

 

I gave it one more coat of frame dirt on the tops, ends and sides to ensure all the corners were covered well. While the bogies were removed I used Tamiya flat green to paint up the axle boxes as per the prototype - something which wasn’t done by Hattons. This simple addition really gave the bogies some depth.

 

 

After this, it was time to take back some of the weathering to reveal the Freightliner logos, TOPS codes, and a few other small details. Again following the prototype images on flickr for reference. I then painted up the grab rails underneath each buffer in white, something else which was missed by hattons as they were in the same green as the body. I also painted the lamp irons which were also missed. Finishing touches was bringing the buffers back to black and then adding the buffer beam pipes. 
 

Bellow are some photos of the wagon completed on the layout behind @Chris37044’s Hattons 66502. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And that’s that. The first proper weathering project done. Next for this wagon (and the others in the rake) once I have weathered (and sourced) them all, will be the waste containers that sit on top of them. There are x2 types and one is available as 3d print on ebay so might get some of these soon to try out. The other type isn’t currently available in any form so I hope this changes at some point in the future.
 

I have included the real life prototype below and a video of the rake in action which regularly passed Greenford until December 2014 when the contract passed to DB. We are planning a couple of DB rakes too in due course, hopefully someone will release a FCA wagon soon!

FEA-E 641058 in container traffic:

 

 

A full FEA-E rake on the return journey of the Calvert Binliner passing West Ruislip before passing Greenford a little further down the line. Interestingly this one is top and tailed by 66’s…
 

 

Thats it for now. More updates on the way shortly! I hope this more longer post type explaining my work and showing the real life prototypes proves a little more interesting than one image a short description! Let me know what you think! Thanks

 

 

Some close ups of my Hattons 66502 in Freightliner colours. I have had this for a while now but will be used as traction for my 36 long rake of PCA Cement tanks. It may also make appearance on the calvert binliner and bardon hoppers. As well as potentially any engineering rake and RHTT runs too. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Chris37044

[WCML100]

From one loco to another… 

 

My latest purchase was this beast… 70811 in Colas colours. I picked it up from my local model shop AGR at a great price and is sound fitted too. I decided to get one for the fleet to along side my 2 Colas 66’s for engineering workings. During our time frame, crossrail engineering upgrades along the nearby GWML was in full swing and engineering trains were mostly provided by Colas 66’s or 70’s. I had no intention of getting a 70 but after seeing several of these crossrail engineering workings actual went from Oxford / Hinksey Yard to the GWML via the Chilterns and Greenford - with a good portion powered by the 70’s, it was a no brainer and now a ‘must have’. There were also some examples of engineering work in the Greenford area which these went to and from as well. 70801 and the other lower numbers were regulars so will probably renumber to one of those (likely 801) and back date to the original colas logos at the same time.
 

It will work either solo, or ‘top n tailed’ with 66487 (my non powered example shown not long back). It will run all types of engineering trains, including Coalfish, falcon, autoballasters and general use wagon types as well as track carrying wagons (more on them in a future post). 
 

So enjoy some pics of the latest addition, and a video to match. I have also included a couple of the workings that 70’s were powering when routed through Greenford. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To watch the video including the sound see below:

 

 

 

 

for the prototype inspiration of Colas 70’s on working through Greenford see the flickr and YouTube videos below:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That’s all for now. Plenty of other work progressing so won’t be long until the next update! Cheers

[WCML100]

Now then, another wagon weathering project I have been working on - this time for one of my engineering rakes, so follows on nicely from the newly acquired Colas 70.

 

I had a couple of spare KFA’s originally purchased for an intermodal rake, however as that didn’t really fit I decided to sell most of it on. I was left with the FEA-E (posted previously) and x2 KFA’s. I was going to use all 3 for my binliner rake until doing further research and realising it is a completely different type of KFA which was used for these workings. So I turned my attention towards other uses it had within engineering train formations as this interested me. They are usually mixed in with Salmon wagons and like, but with track carrying panels on top, for… well… carrying track! So with this, and a quick search on flickr - I stumbled upon a photo of KFA TIPH93378 and that was enough for a prototype inspiration to model.

 

So I got to work on the wagon along side the FEA-E, following a similar method. There was a lot more to the KFA however.

 

First things first was a quick coat of matt varnish to tone the bright blue down and give something for the following coats to cling on to.

 

 

 

Next up was a coat of RailMatch Frame dirt. A good all over cover to get all in the different parts of the wagon. One thing to note with the KFA is you need a few coats to get all the blue covered within the different gubbins and array of sides. The photos show after one coat, you can still clearly see blue in areas.
 

 

After a few coats of Frame dirt, I finished off with a coat of RailMatch Weathered Black. Where as on the FEA-E, I only did the underside and bogies in this colour and left the top and most of the sides in the more brown frame dirt colour - on the KFA I gave it a more all over weathered black finish after looking at several pictures of the KFA’s on flickr, as well as the actual prototype in question. Which after adding several light coats, building it up gradually - I did start to get the effect I was looking for colour wise.
 

 

 

This is where it starts to get a bit more unique, 93378 started life a Tiphook Rail branded example in a navy blue (in the late 80’s i think). Hornby’s iteration of this blue is way too bright and not navy enough, maybe the weathering in the pictures ive seen (even when a lot cleaner) has tainted my view however. These then got taken on by Touax and the Tiphook branding removed. Some were patch painted over with others having logos properly removed but most if not all then received the ‘Touax’ yellow logo.

 

In reality the prototype I am modelling it is hard to tell if the Touax logo is even there… One thing that was common on these was that the blue faded terribly and became more ‘sky blue’ than Navy or anywhere in between. There are some which still retain a good navy colour with the Touax branding still clear on better maintained examples however.
 

Anyways, back to the model in hand - this example had several patch painted areas along the side in a lightish blue, with the buffer shanks and the end areas showing its age with a very faded sky blue. To re-create this I masked off the areas and hand painted these with a mix of blue and white enamel paints to get the right shade. This was then repeated for the buffer shanks and end areas but slightly lighter in colour so to help show the ageing. This was not just painted on but dry brushed on to give the ‘worn’ look against the already weathered colour. This may seem backward but it seemed to get the effect I was after. At this point I also started to use some cotton buds and IPA to gently take back some of the weathering in places to reveal the details and info panels etc on the sides of the wagon. I also removed some weathering to reveal the yellow on the axle boxes, again all as per the prototype.

 

 

 

 

Now that the wagon was progressing nicely, my attention turned to the track carrying panels. Again this was tricky - there was no ‘ready to run’ option so to speak. The only RTR item that had been produced was the Hattons FEA-S with said track carrying panels included. These are like hens teeth and when they do appear they are expensive (and never separately). So I tried a 3D printed option from ebay. They turned up and I was NOT happy with them. They were weak, brittle, bent (giving a hump effect when laying on the wagon flat) and most importantly inaccurate. 
 

My OCD kicked in and bit the bullet and got a Hattons FEA-S with the panels included. As quickly as I received the wagon in the post, it was back up for sale to recoup some of the cost. But the main thing is I had some authentic panels! These are a universal type and are used on several intermodel type wagons for track carrying / engineering use. Ironically these are the colour that I reckon the Hornby KFA SHOULD be without any weathering in my opinion…

 

 

Now that I had these sourced, it was time to weather these in line with the wagon. Referencing flickr again to check what sort of state these got in on various wagons as well as the prototype 93378 - i decided on a slight dusting on the blue sides and edges with the main top surface more grubby and marked. So I gave them a quick matt varnish, followed by a couple of (very) light coats of RailMatch Frame dirt. This was then good for the edges and sides - so i masked these up and got to work on the tops. Again referencing what was online to work from - it seemed these were a real mix of browns and blacks with similar horizontal streaks and markings in a faded sense - presumably from where different sleepers where in contact on the surface causing this effect. So again using the same colours sprayed in a horizontal motion. Once dry i then took out the cotton buds and IPA and gently went side to side, in the same motion in different areas for variation to create the desired effect of the streaked markings. 
 

 

 

After that all that was left to do was add some transfers on for the new data panel for 93378, and some new OHLE flashes as these had been re-applied over the weathered finish in real life (a common occurrence). All transfers were supplied from Steve at RailTec and the tops codes were customised to match the real thing. Great service as always! The track panels where then fixed in place and the wagon now ready to go! 
 

For my first real ‘in depth’ weathering project I am really happy with the outcome. Looking forward to running it with some nice battered up 4 wheelers and in the future some salmon wagons too. Here are some pictures of the final product!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is the real thing for reference:

 

 

& here is a video I am basing my mixed engineering rake from including this KFA (maybe not all 3 66’s though! Haha):

 

 

Hopefully that post isn’t too long, and your all still reading! If you haven’t guessed already I do really enjoy researching the prototype and trying to model it in 00 as accurately as possible! I also like experimenting and documenting the process - so I hope it is useful or at least interesting to you all. I have a few more photos with my latest 70 and 66 and my weathered OBA’s but they wont fit on this post so will show those separately! That’s all for now! Cheers 👍🏻

 

 

[EWS60065]

Fantastic work on the KFA, I'm glad it turned out well and sounds like the Hattons FEA was a good call (especially as you already get the transfers on the track panels this way!). 

I particularly like the weathering on the ends with the faded blue - reminds me of how the DRS IKA Megafret wagons have weathered too. 

Interestingly I have just designed a concrete sleeper load for Salmons and sent it off for 3D printing so hopefully you'll be able to see how that goes on my thread. It's quite simplified to save on cost but should do the job. 

[WCML100]

2 hours ago, EWS60065 said:

Fantastic work on the KFA, I'm glad it turned out well and sounds like the Hattons FEA was a good call (especially as you already get the transfers on the track panels this way!). 

I particularly like the weathering on the ends with the faded blue - reminds me of how the DRS IKA Megafret wagons have weathered too. 

Interestingly I have just designed a concrete sleeper load for Salmons and sent it off for 3D printing so hopefully you'll be able to see how that goes on my thread. It's quite simplified to save on cost but should do the job. 

thanks mate, yes I am quite happy with the outcome of the weathering. It was a bit of a fluke how good it came out from the first try. But what I envisaged worked out well in practise.

 

I toyed with the idea of new sleepers, used sleepers and no sleepers! But went with no sleepers to show off the effect on the flat deck. The rake that I took inspiration from is unloaded too. We shall see… that could all change! 
 

I look forward to seeing how you get on with the 3D printing 👍🏻

Edited September 29, 2023 by WCML100

[WCML100]

Following on from yesterday’s post. Here is the new KFA along side its OBA companions. A couple of shots of it behind the Colas 70 and the Ex EWS DB 66. Enjoy!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EWS60065]

Nice pictures, feels a bit familiar as I happen to have both of those locomotives! Can't wait to see the KFA mixed in with other Salmons too, have you got any in the works? 

[WCML100]

Cheers mate. No immediate plans for salmons yet. I am going to wait to see what the flangeway ones end up like and make a decision then. Hornby have also hinted they have tooled them as part of their suite for the older types too. So worth keeping an eye on that as well. I would like to try the cambrian kit option but haven’t built any wagon kits as of yet so not sure if I have the skills. I have got a sea urchin kit to try first! I will see how that goes before I try a salmon! But if i am honest, a RTR sounds more appealing and will give me more time to weather it rather than build it! 

[EWS60065]

@WCML100 I'm with you about waiting for RTR. The Cambrian ones are great but are of course quite time consuming - I'm just gradually building up the rake before getting maybe 4 or 5 of the Flangeway/Hornby ones when they're out.

[WCML100]

So the hard work continues, this time on the layout itself!

 

Over the weekend we took on the task (with the help of our old man) of getting the 3 scenic board’s properly finished rather than the ‘almost’ state they were in previously.
 

The first of these tasks was to add height adjustable feet to all 12 legs - This was relatively straightforward.

 

 

 

We then set about adding alignment pins to ensure that the board meet exactly every time when taken apart and put back together. These were purchased based off a recommendation by @Bearwood West Yard.

 

 

And to round off the big jobs was to add securing clips to both of the outer sides over each join to secure the boards together nice and tightly! 

 

 

All of this means all 3 boards are fully built and stable - with proper joins between each. Most importantly this mean we are ready for track laying on the next 2 boards. As you can see below the station board middle level is now fully laid and we can now progress on to the next board. We have managed to get this nice and tight. 
 

 

 

And again between the next 2 boards…

 

 

 

Some of the wood base on the middle track level is starting to warp a little in places to we will look to remedy that next and prevent any further twisting. We are now excited to start the track laying around the rest of the layout so we can get some movement going further than the 6ft back and forward currently. Here is a shot of the roughly laid curve between the NNML and on to the Greenford branch. 
 

 

 

Here are a few pics showing the all 3 scenic boards fully together for the first time:

 

 

 

 

So we will get to track laying on the middle board next as well as some adjustments to do on the upper station level of the main larger board in the coming weeks - but for now we had enjoy some ‘testing’ across boards!

 

 

 

Here is a quick video of the 70 running along the former Up Loop.

 

 

 

That is all for this weekend, hopefully more progress on the way soon 🙂

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by WCML100

[EWS60065]

@WCML100 Great stuff, looking foward to seeing how the scenery progresses once track laying is complete.

[WCML100]

10 hours ago, EWS60065 said:

@WCML100 Great stuff, looking foward to seeing how the scenery progresses once track laying is complete.

 

Thanks! & Same here - it is one of my fav bits of layout building so itching to get to that stage! Trying to be careful not to jump the gun! 

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by WCML100

[Bearwood West Yard]

Thought I was already following this thread! Excellent work all round on the layout and workbench. Hopefully those dowels make it easier to align the boards when setting up. Look forward to seeing future updates! 

[tjf4375]

Just spent a good while catching up with your thread this evo! Really lovely work on those KFAs mate, particularly the buffer beams :) I must admit I'm not too clued up on freight wagon denominations, particularly the flats which seem to come in a bewildering array of flavours!