Station Platform Lamp posts : How far apart?

[Blobrick]

Does anyone know if there is such a thing as a specified distance between platform lighting columns? (In this case SR Stations)  Most model platforms tend to be under length compared to the 12'' to the 1' variety, so less lamp posts are needed, but this shortage of post can in its self make the platform look shorter. So l m wondering if there is a standard distance which then could be compressed to present a more realistic representation?

 

Cheers

Bob C

[Wickham Green too]

"An Illustrated Survey of Selected SOUTHERN STATIONS", OPC, 1980 will give you a number of plans marked wit 'LP' as appropriate.

[Michael Hodgson]

Unduly close lamps will more noticeably look wrong when there's a train in the platform, so I wouldn't compress the spacing just to get the number of lamps right.  The spacing will in any case differ according to type of lamp - my suspicion is that old fashioned oil or gas lamps were probably spaced further apart than electric.  I would suggest you look at photos with a train in the platform, and relate the spacing of lamps to the number of coach lengths apart they are. 

 

So yes, underscale length platforms will mean you need fewer lamps, but as we don't do shorty coaches, our trains fill more platform than the prototype.  I think longer platforms on the prototype didn't always have lamps all the way to the end anyway, and the trains typically didn't fill the platform, so I would put lamps along the length that at the trains occupy (ie much closer to the end than prototype)

[bécasse]

My suspicion is that the "modern" SR concrete station lamp posts were erected at one chain (ie 66 feet) intervals. If that wasn't the official spacing, it must have been very close to that. It is just possible that spacing varied according to whether the illumination came from gas or electricity but probably not. Pre-grouping style posts were usually spaced more closely (and would probably have originally been oil lit).

[Clive Mortimore]

I have somewhere stored in my BR files one on station lighting. The amount of lumens per platform depends on the expected number of passengers. Therefore busy stations and busy areas of stations would have more or more powerful lamps than a country halt. 

 

As Wickham Green as already pointed out many station plans show the position of the lamps.

 

There is another way of working out the lamp spacing, quite a simple one, count how many coaches you can see in a photo and the number of lamps. The length of the the type of coaches in the photo will be a known factor so multiply number of coaches by their length. Then divide by the number of lamps in the photo and that will tell you how far apart they are. That is a very rough estimate as often the lamps at the ends of the platforms are spaced a little wider than those close to the entrance and exit, back to lumens per expected passenger.

 

Do not be conned into buying working lamps if you are not going to run your layout in the dark. Like your local council's street lights, platform lamps are not illuminated, wasting electricity (or gas) when there is a big yellow thing in the sky doing a better job.

[phil_sutters]

23 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

There is another way of working out the lamp spacing, quite a simple one, count how many coaches you can see in a photo and the number of lamps. The length of the the type of coaches in the photo will be a known factor so multiply number of coaches by their length.

The S&D was under Southern auspices for much of the infrastructure details. This shot shows lamps at just over one coach length.

This shot of Brighton seems to show a similar distance

In this shot you could work out the distance from the standard SR concrete fencing panels.

Edited August 26, 2022 by phil_sutters
Assorted improvements!

[Wheatley]

For current practise there isn't a specified distance, but there is a specified lux level to be achieved. Brighter lamps on taller posts will achieve the same lux levels as dimmer lamps lower down (say, under a canopy). It's also not unknown for stations with identical platform lengths to have more posts on one than the other. 

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

...  platform lamps are not illuminated, wasting electricity (or gas) when there is a big yellow thing in the sky doing a better job.

Ditto carriage lighting on the 'traditional' railway ........................... except when that big yellow thing is obscured by a big black hole in the hillside, of course.

[Clive Mortimore]

14 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Ditto carriage lighting on the 'traditional' railway ........................... except when that big yellow thing is obscured by a big black hole in the hillside, of course.

The one just outside the station on a layout based in East Anglia. 

[31A]

44 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

The one just outside the station on a layout based in East Anglia. 

 

Ipswich or Newmarket?😃

[stewartingram]

3 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Do not be conned into buying working lamps if you are not going to run your layout in the dark. Like your local council's street lights, platform lamps are not illuminated, wasting electricity (or gas) when there is a big yellow thing in the sky doing a better job.

I can remember Swavesey on the St.Ives loop (Cambridge to March) having the new fluorescent tube lights fitted in the late 50s. 2 or 3 times we got stopped at the LC in our car, so a train was due; the lights were turned on just before it arrived. And after the train had gone & the gates were opened, we drove over the crossing just as the lights were turned off again.

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, 31A said:

Ipswich or Newmarket?😃

Yep - contrary to the rumours, East Anglia isn't all flat ....... they've got at least two hillsides ( with holes in them ).

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, 31A said:

 

Ipswich or Newmarket?😃

Didn't take long for Ipswich to be mentioned.

[Blobrick]

Thanks Gents, the above has been very informative, I ve got a few options l d not thought of

 

Cheers

Bob C

[Goldhawk]

On 26/08/2022 at 10:13, Wickham Green too said:

"An Illustrated Survey of Selected SOUTHERN STATIONS", OPC, 1980 will give you a number of plans marked wit 'LP' as appropriate.

Taking up Wickham Green's suggestion I dug out my copy of "An Illustrated Survey of Selected SOUTHERN STATIONS" and picked out Hayes (Kent) as a good example of a Southern Railway reconstruction of the inter-war period.  

The plans are all scaled at 160 ft/inch and the measured distance between lamp posts on the plan I found to be about 20/32nds of an inch, which suggests that they were spaced about 100 feet apart.

Hayes is a island platform terminus type station and from the accompanying photos the platform lamps were of the double sided concrete type to be found at many of the Southern stations rebuilt or modernized at that time.

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, Goldhawk said:

... Hayes .... platform lamps were of the double sided concrete type ...

"Were" being the operative word - they went in August 1983 : -

 

[stewartingram]

23 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Yep - contrary to the rumours, East Anglia isn't all flat ....... they've got at least two hillsides ( with holes in them ).

Of course it is not all flat - though as a proper FenTiger I must maintain the Earth really is flat - but out in the fens we sometimes have white lines painted on the road. Now they really are hills that we have to climb to get over them...

[Blobrick]

5 hours ago, Goldhawk said:

Taking up Wickham Green's suggestion I dug out my copy of "An Illustrated Survey of Selected SOUTHERN STATIONS" and picked out Hayes (Kent) as a good example of a Southern Railway reconstruction of the inter-war period.  

The plans are all scaled at 160 ft/inch and the measured distance between lamp posts on the plan I found to be about 20/32nds of an inch, which suggests that they were spaced about 100 feet apart.

Hayes is a island platform terminus type station and from the accompanying photos the platform lamps were of the double sided concrete type to be found at many of the Southern stations rebuilt or modernized at that time.

Many thanks Goldhawk, l appreciate your help, most useful info

[Wickham Green too]

Of course, on a modern layout, it's not only lamp posts you have to worry about : - 

 

Hayes, again ; 19/3/22

[Derek 19B]

In the distant pass I worked for a company that did the CCTV for , South East trains , Connec?, go via . On surveying one site I spoke with a guy from the lighting company who said don’t use the measurement for the middle lampposts ( around the entrance ) as they are closer together than the extremities . This may have changed as it’s a few years ago.

Near the end of the platform the lamps are further apart which would mess my measurements up.

 

Derek

[brossard]

On 26/08/2022 at 10:12, Clive Mortimore said:

Do not be conned into buying working lamps if you are not going to run your layout in the dark. Like your local council's street lights, platform lamps are not illuminated, wasting electricity (or gas) when there is a big yellow thing in the sky doing a better job.

 

I'm with you there Clive, however, I found it extremely difficult to find decent dummy lamps.  I have been installing working lamps but haven't actually tested them yet.  I got mine (street, yard and station lamps), in 7mm, from Layouts4U and they were a shockingly reasonable price.

 

Anyway I found this thread in my search for advice on lamp positioning and I got my answer.

 

John

Edited July 9, 2023 by brossard