Need a Book Recommendation for BR Wagons

[Guest WM183]

Hi hi folks.

I own "British Railways Wagons - the First Half Million" by Don Rowland, and it's a great book! However, the drawings in it are very basic weight drawings, and not quite detailed enough to build a model from. Are there any books on BRs steam-era wagons that contain drawings more like the typical 4mm scale drawings found in the LMS/LNER wagon book sets, or (even better) actual GA drawings? I want to build some wagons for which no kits exist in 7mm, such as 5 plank hifits or hibars. 

Thanks much!

Amanda

[Cwmtwrch]

There are two books that I know of. One is "An Illustrated History of BR Wagons", vol 1, which covers opens, tanks, steel carriers and non-hoppered minerals, with 4mm scale drawings. It was published in 1985, but is sometimes available second-hand. Volume 2 never appeared. The second is a recent book developed using data from the same team, "An Illustrated History of BR Hopper Wagons", published by the HMRS this year, which implies it is intended as the first of a series. The drawings are 7mm scale and very detailed, showing the ex-works condition.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Cwmtwrch
omitted letter!

[Mark Saunders]

The currently available from the HMRS are 

 

Merry Go Round on the rails by David Monk-Steel.

An illustrated history of BR hopper wagons.

 

The main one that is out of print is BR wagons volume one that is available second hand!

[Strathwood]

We can help with these which are all in stock:

 

https://strathwood.co.uk/products/the-acquired-wagons-of-british-railways-volume-1-fleet-composition-brake-vans?_pos=3&_psq=wagons&_ss=e&_v=1.0

 

https://strathwood.co.uk/products/the-acquired-wagons-of-british-railways-volume-2-all-steel-mineral-wagons-loco-coal-wagons?_pos=1&_psq=wagons&_ss=e&_v=1.0

 

https://strathwood.co.uk/products/the-acquired-wagons-of-british-railways-volume-3-13t-wooden-bodied-minerals-1923-rch-specification-all-types-including-coke-wagons?_pos=4&_psq=wagons&_ss=e&_v=1.0

 

https://strathwood.co.uk/products/the-acquired-wagons-of-british-railways-volume-4-due-in-22-april-2021?_pos=2&_psq=wagons&_ss=e&_v=1.0

 

https://strathwood.co.uk/products/model-railway-handbook-no10-thoroughly-modern-models-2-modern-wagons-in-4mm-last-few-copies?_pos=5&_psq=wagons&_ss=e&_v=1.0

 

Kevin

[Cwmtwrch]

Some of the "Acquired Wagons" series are already available second hand, and they do not, so far as I know [I don't have any of them], include drawings.

[hmrspaul]

3 hours ago, Cwmtwrch said:

Some of the "Acquired Wagons" series are already available second hand, and they do not, so far as I know [I don't have any of them], include drawings.

Correct. Totally mis-leading entry from Strathwood. 

 

As you would expect Mark is on the ball. Fortunately, these have drawings of real wagons and not GAs. 

 

The other source is magazines. 

 

There are some links in WSGB99.doc

 

Paul

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

Correct. Totally mis-leading entry from Strathwood. 

 

As you would expect Mark is on the ball. Fortunately, these have drawings of real wagons and not GAs. 

 

The other source is magazines. 

 

There are some links in WSGB99.doc

 

Paul

 

Thanks for the updated list Paul, I'm still working off the one from a few years back without the book references.

 

Mike.

[Wheatley]

Wild Swan published a couple of slim volumes by RJ Essery of LMS GA drawings.

 

For those wagons not covered by the three books in Mark's link and occasional magazine articles, the weight diagrams for many are available on the Barrowmore site, or at least they were the last time I looked. 

 

Don't write off the weight diagrams though - a drawing of a real wagon will certainly give you an accurate drawing of that  wagon, but there were variations between batches of wagons of the same diagram in almost every type I've looked at so far. David Larkin's "Wagons of the Early/Middle/Late British Railways Era" series has details of which batches of each diagram were built with which combination of chassis, brake gear, buffers and couplings. 

 

The obvious one is the Dia 1/208 ventilated van - 4 shoe Morton brakes, BR 8 shoe clasp brakes, all planked, all ply, planked with ply doors, 2 part ends, 3 part ends, almost every type of spindle and hydraulic buffers, and at least three different profiles of diagonal bracing. One batch turned out with LMS pattern lettering and the vac cylinders painted bauxite etc etc...

 

Endless fun with a pile of kits and the spares box. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Wheatley

[Sitham Yard]

Although the original question was about drawings don't forget the old adage "model what you see." The books above and anything else by David Larkin are recommended for their photos. Not only were wagons sometimes built with differences from the drawing but also were modified in service. Amanda is obviously modelling BR period and with standard dimensions things like axleboxes could easily get changed. The biggest change of all was the decision to add vacuum brakes to many unfitted opens, vans and brake vans as part of the BR Modernisation Plan of 1955.

 

There can be errors in books, possibly due to errors in official records or how easy or not it was for the author to extract the information. When BR was building open wagons (highs) in 1952 (Lot 2409) they were due to be wooden sides with pressed steel ends. Because the ends were in short supply some were built with wooden ends.  Three books each give different ways in which the total of 500 were split and I had to check photos to find the correct answer.   

 

Andrew

 

[hmrspaul]

4 minutes ago, Sitham Yard said:

I had to check photos to find the correct answer.   

 

Andrew

 

Which is? Do Share

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bropenwood

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bropenmerchandiseowvcorrugated

 

And I still haven't got over an early RMWeb discussion that said my photos were wrong in the number series because Don Rowland's book had something completely different (a one digit typo!)

 

You bring out an important point, there aren't records of a lot of the details. As an example there is Don R photo with a typical SR plyside van in the background but it is in the BR number series and I've never seen another and I don't believe DR actually photographed the van itself. 

 

Paul

[Cwmtwrch]

14 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

As an example there is Don R photo with a typical SR plyside van in the background but it is in the BR number series and I've never seen another and I don't believe DR actually photographed the van itself. 

SR Wagons vol. 4 lists B752350-B753099 ordered in 1946, but not delivered until 1949, to SR D1452, some unfitted, some 4-shoe lift link VB. Don Rowland and David Larkin [Wagons of the Early BR Era] give BR 1/202 for both, and the latter states that the unfitted ones were later converted; SR Wagons says "most" converted. Both include a photo of B752909 of the VB lot.

[Sitham Yard]

36 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

Which is? Do Share

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bropenwood

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bropenmerchandiseowvcorrugated

 

And I still haven't got over an early RMWeb discussion that said my photos were wrong in the number series because Don Rowland's book had something completely different (a one digit typo!)

 

You bring out an important point, there aren't records of a lot of the details. As an example there is Don R photo with a typical SR plyside van in the background but it is in the BR number series and I've never seen another and I don't believe DR actually photographed the van itself. 

 

Paul

 

BR highs lot 2409.doc

[hmrspaul]

2 hours ago, Sitham Yard said:

 

BR highs lot 2409.doc 21 kB · 10 downloads

Thanks, no mystery then. 

All 500 are listed in the December 1958 booklet which includes the BR wagons to be converted to vacuum brake. 494470 - 495269.

 

The only mistake I'm aware of listing which wagons were unfit or VB from new in Bartlett et all is that all 300 China Clay 743000 - 743299 were unfit when new. 

 

There are other mistakes, but not as many as in the tables in Rowland. Don did a brilliant job but the manuscript was about 10 years old when D&C finally published it - I suspect because they knew OPC was bring out our first volume. The early wagon books of c1970 - 75 were very very expensive and the GWR and LMS ones were quickly remaindered (how I could afford to get the latter, the first was my first freebie as the diagram book used came from me (via Dad). 

 

Paul

Edited October 15, 2022 by hmrspaul

[Cwmtwrch]

23 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

There are some links in WSGB99.doc

Thanks very much for that. I have noticed that two of the Larkin/Bradford Barton series are omitted:

Pre-nationalisation Freight Wagons on British Railways: A Pictorial Survey - 1977 - 64 pages - ISBN 0 85153 302 7

BR Departmental Rolling Stock: A Pictorial Survey - 1979 - 64 pages - ISBN 0 85153 348 5

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

The Mike King Southern wagon books generally have a good selection of drawings in them.

 

Mike.

[Guest WM183]

Hi folks. 

I own all 4 volumes of the Southern Wagon series, as well as all 3 Essery LMS ones, the Tatlow LNER books (old one and volume 4 so far) as well as the two thin LMS diagram books. I even have some L&Y and Midland wagon books, as well as the GWR wagon bible. I just was after BR specific ones. However you have all been a huge help. Thank you so much! I believe I know where to go from here now. 

All the best!

Amanda

[MyRule1]

On 14/10/2022 at 21:33, Wheatley said:

Don't write off the weight diagrams though

With the above in mind I am surprised no one has mentioned the very useful web-site of Barrowmore MRC

 

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/Prototype.html

 

[hmrspaul]

On 15/10/2022 at 19:50, Cwmtwrch said:

Thanks very much for that. I have noticed that two of the Larkin/Bradford Barton series are omitted:

Pre-nationalisation Freight Wagons on British Railways: A Pictorial Survey - 1977 - 64 pages - ISBN 0 85153 302 7

BR Departmental Rolling Stock: A Pictorial Survey - 1979 - 64 pages - ISBN 0 85153 348 5

This isn't my book list which I have separately. 

 

Of course we have been asked about BR wagons, the pre-nat books have plenty of drawings as do the magazines. Western Thunder has recently revived the discussion and listing of Ken Werrett drawings.

 

Paul