Finney LNER A1/A3 in 4mm

[Chas Levin]

Hello, that's looking very impressive looking and I'm heartened to read that you say it "it all fits without the need for any fettling of any kind". I can't help thinking though that the easy fit must be pretty dependent on your very evident accuracy though: those are very complex shapes with a lot of possiblities for tiny errors leading to poor fit.

 

Wonderful to see the charateristic boiler shape emerging at this stage in just bare brass - great job!

[k22009]

Thanks Chas, the design of the kit does also help with cutting out some of the potential innacuracies that can accumulate. It's not the sort of kit that you can plough on with though, at each stage you need to not only think about what your doing now but also what's coming up, especially as a lot of the assemblies i'd like to be removable to make the painting a bit more straightforward.

 

On with the cab, internal beading has been added to the cab sides as the rear edges need forming and this will be trickier if i do it the other way, the door hinges are also part of the internal beading, at first i thought they were tabs and nearly cut them off. The floor is a simple fold up unit with a half etched overlay, the lower washout plugs are incorporated into this too, you can just see the square bar protruding from the cab floor sides.

 

 

Getting a good curve on the rear cab sides is tricky as there's not a lot to work with, but once done these fit into recesses in the cab floor (you can see these in the bottom of the cab floor above) so you can check that all is well. I wanted to add as much to the cab sides before they are assembled to the cab front as it'll make life easier than the other way around. The windows are a 5 piece unit, the first part to fit on is the lower of the etches below, this aligns with the cinder guard holes which need fitting at the same time, the cut out is in the inside corner and the roof slots into these. The 2nd down etch is then soldered over the top, at this stage you can really fit no more to the windows. The single frame fits into the 2nd etch that i mentioned and is allowed to slide backwards and forwards with the top etch fitting over this encapsulating it in place, with paint to go on though the sliding frame and cover will need to be done afterwards.

 

 

The backhead will need detailing and i want to paint this seperateley so i have soldered a bit of scrap etch to the bottom, drilled a couple of holes through the cab floor and the bottom flap (making sure i can get at the screws with the chassis in place).  The nuts soldered onto the cab floor allow the cab unit as a whole to be removable, the cab front will be screwed to the firebox. The castings are for the raised floor sections either side of the firebox hole and fit snugly into the recesses. 

 

 

With the cab sides, handrails and front fitted to the cab floor unit i test fitted it all onto the footplate.

 

 

The backhead needs detailing, there are a host of tiny castings and etches for this so i'll do that another time. The bucket seats are also yet to be fitted although the support frames are in place.

 

[k22009]

The cab roof is made up from the parts shown, the cradle is a fold up item and incorporates the front and rear roof stiffeners which will later be cut away from the frame. Both the roof and the ventilator parts need rolling into a shallow curve before fitting.

 

 

With the front and rear stiffeners positioned it's quite a simple operation to solder everything together, there are a selection of vents with both open and one closed so i've gone for the later option.

 

 

With the jig cut away and a test fit onto the cab. 

 

 

[Bucoops]

I'm liking the use of jigs - very effective.

[k22009]

Now that the main assemblies are assembled it's time to add some of the smaller detail items. First up the mechanical lubricators which are made up from 3 or 4 parts, the unit, base, mechanical lever, and handwheel. These are all tiny items but have gone together ok, i've even managed to make the levers moveable (not that they need to), sandbox filler caps on the left.

 

 

I've also been adding the 0.35mm dia copper wire to the pot lubricators for the feeds, not the easiest of jobs to get them through the apertures in the valve cover and into the lubricator, but being copper it flex's a little bit more. 

 

 

All done though, soldered from the rear of the pots and once the footplate jig is off i'll cut the wires flush to the footplate underside and dab a spot of solder on them to keep them fixed in situ. With the lubricator feeds done i can also fix the smokebox saddle in place as i don't need access for anything else.

 

 

I'll add the handrail knobs to the boiler/firebox assembly along with the pipe brackets for the ejector exhaust pipe and the pipe itself next.

 

 

[k22009]

I've added the handrail pillars and want to add some boiler bands at this stage. I do sometimes just use magic tape but i have some thin copper sheet from Eileens that i have cut a few 1mm wide strips off.

 

 

Once cut they curl and wriggle all over the place so  they need straightening.

 

 

With 2 pairs of pliers just grab each end

 

 

And give the strip about half a dozen pulls so that it twangs, and now should be pretty straight. I do this with coiled wire too.

 

 

The bands are positioned by the band clips on the underside of the boiler.

 

 

They're thin enough to not look to pronounced, i realise scale bands would be wafer thin and each to there own everyone has different views.

 

I might cut the footplate assembly out of its cradle/jig next so that i can carry on with the chassis and valvegear.

[Michael Edge]

I use thin (.002") copper for cladding bands but I cut them with a scalpel on the cutting mat, if you start the cut slightly in from the edge of the sheet it will cut clean and remain straight.

[30368]

Dave,

 

Really lovely work on the A1/3. The Finney Kits are really first class but it can at times be difficult to identify all the small etched parts. You seem to have avoided such difficulties.

I note that Michael Edge is offering some tips which are always worthwhile. I found his advice so very useful during my builds. Given he is a professional loco builder how he finds time I don't know, thanks Michael.

 

I am focusing on my layout at the moment but I look forward to tackling my Judith Edge V4 2-6-2 kit in the near future. If the A1 Locomotive Trust can build V4 number three (Highlander) then I am sure I can manage a 4mm version.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[michl080]

You can utilize a paper guillotine for the stripes. I think this is the easiest way to get perfect parallel stripes. Make sure noone catches you while abusing the guillotine. 😎

 

Michael

[Michael Edge]

Doesn't that curl them though? That's why I said I start the cut a little way in from the edge of the sheet.

[michl080]

On 13/12/2022 at 14:13, Michael Edge said:

Doesn't that curl them though? That's why I said I start the cut a little way in from the edge of the sheet.

 

It does, but they are easy to straighten. The main advantage is that they are absolutely parallel. I couldn't cut them so nicely with a scalpel and ruler.

 

Another trick I read recently: If you have a parallel boiler, wrap a piece of paper around the boiled. If both ends overlap, you can use the paper edge to fix the bands in perfect longitudinal orientation.

 

Michael

[k22009]

No new updates just yet, mince pie munching has stopped work temporarily.

 

Everyone have a good Christmas.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[k22009]

I've made a start on the valve gear, i must admit i'm apprehensive as there are lots of very small parts and very few spares (non in most cases).

 

The radius link bracket was first up, some of the locating slots needed opening up with a scalpel blade to enable a good fit. The reversing crank laminations on the right won't be needed for a little while but they've been removed from the etch anyway.

 

 

Assembled together and with a 1mm dia rod running through each side.

In the instructions it just says solder a short length of rod into each hole so that the radius link will pivot on them. Soldering 2 tiny pieces of rod here would be tricky, so, i decided to just solder in a length between the 2 locations and using a disc cut a gap in them which can then be filed down once the radius link is made and i can be sure the protruding rods are long enough.

 

 

And with the pivots cut 

 

 

The next assembly is the 2 radius links, these are made up from 4 laminations, some 0.3mm wire to locate them and then act as bolts and the radius rod itself made up from 3 parts.

 

 

To start the 2 inner laminations must be sweated together, i used the 0.3mm rods drilled holes through into a wooden block and placed the 2 laminations over them before sweating together. Sorry not a clear photo.

 

 

Once this is done the radius rod must be attached. This is completed by placing the rod under the 2 laminations on the block and fitting the outer radius rod lamination over the top of the link laminations and again sweated to the other side of the radius rod. Great care must be taken to not solder the rod to the link as they must move freely once assembled. With this done you know have to pin the radius rod to the 2 link laminations with some 0.7 dia rod, once again only allowing solder to penetrate the radius rod itself. Once this is done the radius rod should then be free to run along the slot in the link laminations. The outer radius link laminations can the be added to encapsulate the radius rod, the 0.3 rods can be cut off and filed down.

 

 

With the radius rod free to move into any gear position, i'm not quite sure yet how you are supposed to retain them in one position, so more thought is required there.

 

 

Making all the fork joints for the rest of the valve gear next.

[Michael Edge]

You should be able to hold it with the weighshaft arm, exactly as full size.

[k22009]

5 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

You should be able to hold it with the weighshaft arm, exactly as full size.

 

Thanks Mike, yes of course.

 

I've asembled the cylinders, slide bar bracket which is now attached to the slide bars and the radius link bracket onto the frames. They are all tied together with the extended ejector pipe that i've continued into the cylinders so i probably don't need to provide any other ties to keep these as a lift out assembly.

 

 

 

 

[k22009]

There aren't too many parts left on the frets but i've been busy making all of the fork joints for each of the valve gear components.

 

These are all made up from the main rod and a short half etched piece that makes the forked end, most of these are only 2-3mm long. They are all pinned eventually with 0.5mm rod so i've pre drilled all of the holes with an older 0.5 bit and rubbed the emery cloth over each to remove any burrs. I then blackened a short piece of 0.5mm rod and stuck it into a wooden block, the 2 parts were then slid over this and soldered.,i'm using 180 degree solder for these. The pins will then be soldered to make the joint when 2 pieces are offered together with 145 degree solder so i'm hoping it will all stay in place.

 

Among these remaining parts are the 2 in 1 lever and front valve rods. The 3 front valve rods are made from 2 small etched ends and a short length of 0.8mm dia rod sandwiched between, the one end is again forked (you can just see this on the one rod i turned onto it's side) to fit over the levers.

 

 

Thge lever is made from 3 parts and a smaller equalising lever, the 3 parts are soldered together once again using rods to align it, the equalising lever is then pinned to the end hole. The 3 valve rods are then pinned to both ends of the equalising lever and the end of the 2 in 1 lever.

 

 

It all fits into the front of the cylinder assembly and pivots about a fold down part which i will probably drill and tap to allow a screw to act as the pivot.

 

[k22009]

Well it's been a while since i've had the impetus to get back onto the workbench but with heavy rain most of the day forecast today i thought why not get to grips again with all the valve gear.

 

So this is most of the parts after all of the forked joints have been made up. Those where very small and i really took time to ensure everything was deburred well. The tricky part now confronts me though as i now have to solder the joints together with 0.5mm dia wire, trying not to solder everything up solid or unsoldering the fork joints in the process.

 

 

In the end i used Rizzlas folded over the part to be fixed and sandwiched between the forked item brushed with a tiny spot of oil to hopefully stop it getting soldered. I used a tiny amount of solder in and out really quick and fortunately every one worked out ok. 

 

 

With it all fitted together and the reversing shaft added which i've left unsoldered to the brackets  so that any  gear can be selected if it is rotated, the radius rod slides along the pin at the end of the reversing lever. I have also  fitted the 2 in 1 lever to the front of the cylinders and tied both of the valve rods together within the cylinder housing with a small piece of flat so that this also functions. I had to remove a little of the frame under the cylinder on the left hand side as this was clashing with the inside valve rod.

 

 

 

A short video on youtube shows it all working.

 

 

 

Mostly small parts now to add, cylinder wrappers,  reach rod, sanding levers, backhead  to detail and castings to add to the body along with a host of tiny etched parts. 

[ROY@34F]

Many thanks for your update Dave . Poetry in motion isn't it , the Gresley conjugated valve gear . I fired on these engines occasionally when at Grantham in my youth , and with two years on loan to K.X. Top Shed . I have had a Finney A4 kit for years , but whether I will ever make it now ... I am two weeks short of 82 .  But you describing your build is very inspiring .

Roy .

[k22009]

All of the small parts have now been identified and fitted, i did a test with it all assembled and everything seemed fine, some lead strip was added into the boiler. So i've now dis-assembled all of the assemblies ready for painting. The only other part outstanding was the backplate and with a good selection of copper wire and etched parts supplied in the kit and using the right hand drive A1 cab photo from the RCTS book my interpretation has been fitted.

 

The basic back plate

 

 

Finished assembly in position, this is removable and is screwed from under the cab footplate, it looks like its tilting over that's because on the firemans side there is the damper operating rod under the cab floor.

 

 

Start of the dismantling, the chassis will be completely stripped down to frames, wheel sets, bogie, radial truck, brakes and pickups before a good clean. While the handrails/pipes and boiler/firebox assembly is removed from the footplate. The anti carbonisers with associated 0.3mm pipework (left of the brake assembly on the photo below) that fit to the smokebox are also loose and will be attached after painting. One of the front lamp irons needs straightening.

 

Hopefully it all goes back together without to much problem once painted.

 

 

 

The tender awaits.

[Chas Levin]

Morning Dave, I've clicked on the 'applause' sign for that last set of photos but somehow that doesn't quite seem enough! The backhead detailing alone...

[30368]

 

11 hours ago, k22009 said:

Hopefully it all goes back together without to much problem once painted.

 

Absolutely wonderful work Dave. In some ways it seems a shame to paint it, all that construction detail with different materials, will be lost. You encourage me to build my Finney Adams Atlantic tank which has the internal valve gear kit included.

 

Kind regards,

 

30368

[k22009]

5 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Morning Dave, I've clicked on the 'applause' sign for that last set of photos but somehow that doesn't quite seem enough! The backhead detailing alone...

 

That's very kind Chas fotunately the back plate is a big stonker of a unit on the A1/3 so there's plenty of room to manoevre.

 

5 hours ago, 30368 said:

 

 

Absolutely wonderful work Dave. In some ways it seems a shame to paint it, all that construction detail with different materials, will be lost. You encourage me to build my Finney Adams Atlantic tank which has the internal valve gear kit included.

 

Kind regards,

 

30368

 

 

The Martin Finney design has been of very highest quality, it's a real ronseal kit. My only gripe would be the lack of spares on the etches for some small parts and the time taken to keep the parts that need removing safely until you need to use them. An ancilliary etch of the small parts would be a nice addition so they could be left on one piece until needed and surely wouldn't add greatly to the overall cost of the kit now at £200 for the engine alone. A lot of the parts are half etched so are quite delicate and easily deformed if you're not careful.

 

If you take your time with the Adams i'm sure it will build into a very nice model.

[Chas Levin]

17 hours ago, k22009 said:

My only gripe would be the lack of spares on the etches for some small parts and the time taken to keep the parts that need removing safely until you need to use them. An ancilliary etch of the small parts would be a nice addition so they could be left on one piece until needed and surely wouldn't add greatly to the overall cost of the kit now at £200 for the engine alone. A lot of the parts are half etched so are quite delicate and easily deformed if you're not careful.

 

Dave, I have a collection of small plastic boxes, the kind of ones spare parts sometimes come in, or pills, railway figures - even those little pots of sauces with lids that come with takeaways - and I put related groups of small etched parts into one of those with a small piece of paper on which I write what they are, part nos. etc, as it's sometimes months between snipping and soldering. I sometimes also use very small re-sealable plastic bags, but they're easier to lose track of. Either way, the advantage of transparency is that you can see what's inside and read the piece of paper, without repeatedly opening the container, with the attendant risk of losing a tiny part.

Please excuse me if I'm teaching egg-sucking here! 🙂

[k22009]

1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

 

Dave, I have a collection of small plastic boxes, the kind of ones spare parts sometimes come in, or pills, railway figures - even those little pots of sauces with lids that come with takeaways - and I put related groups of small etched parts into one of those with a small piece of paper on which I write what they are, part nos. etc, as it's sometimes months between snipping and soldering. I sometimes also use very small re-sealable plastic bags, but they're easier to lose track of. Either way, the advantage of transparency is that you can see what's inside and read the piece of paper, without repeatedly opening the container, with the attendant risk of losing a tiny part.

Please excuse me if I'm teaching egg-sucking here! 🙂

 

 

Thanks Chas

 

I do the same, i have a few plastic trays with dividers and a lid. With this kit though there were an awful lot of small parts dotted here there and everywhere, everytime you want one part you have to look through all of the trays to find the right one as most needed removing to release a larger part for the build, if they were all on one etch you know exactly where they are stored and you don't need to remove them until needed. 

[Bucoops]

I *try* to keep a spreadsheet where fiddly bits are - if they are individually packaged e.g. Alan Gibson castings then they go in a box with the gist of what's in there. For regularly needed "consumables" e.g. top hat bearings etc they go in a divider box, I usually pour multiple packets into one bag to reduce packaging.

 

For kit leftovers at the moment I keep them in the original kit packaging with the instructions/part diagrams. I expect at some point that won't be manageable any more so will have to re-think. 

 

Completed rolling stock goes into "Trainsporter" boxes.