Finney LNER A1/A3 in 4mm

[k22009]

Over the last few years i've opened the green box containing the beautiful etches and castings for the Finney A1/A3 so many times, i've poured over the parts, digested the instructions and diagrams so many times but always put everything back neatly and closed the lid, thinking another day maybe.

 

Well another day has arrived, this time after looking at the chassis etches i actually cut some of the parts out started drilling the holes for brakes etc. So here goes. I've had a read through the RCTs book #2A and will decide which loco and time frame at a later date. But i'm erring towards Blair Athol in late LNER or early BR days.

 

I have a copy of the very well thumbed article by John Hayes in MRJ 66 and 67 which will be very useful.

 

This is what the chassis etches look like, my only small criticism is that there are not many (if any at all) spares of some of the tiny parts and valve gear, which would have been nice, so i need to be careful.

 

 

I've removed the main frames, spacers, compensation beams and springs. The frames have had the rigid axle holes all removed as i will add full compensation to this as designed by Martin. I want to have the brake gear and wheel sets removable too, but more of that further on down the line.

 

 

 

One thing i did decide however was, as i don't have a George Watts rivet press (or similar), i generally use either the gravity riveter or a pin and small hammer. But i find that there is usually some deformation of the parts, sometimes only small. However the frames have rather a lot of rivet detail that would need punching out. As originally built apparently the frames were flush rivetted so basically invisible which is what i'm following, i realise that by the time frame of this loco the frames may well have had visible rivets so this may not be accurate but tbh they are hardly visible anyway. My reason for this is that i really don't want to deform the frames at all. 

 

Anyway no turning back now.

 

[Chas Levin]

Hello Dave, I shall follow with interest and I hope the build goes well: like you, I have one of these in the pile...

[Bucoops]

Likewise - although mine is an A4 so a bit of a cheat with the resin main part of the body/boiler.

[adriank]

Have you tried putting a sheet of aluminium beneath the etch when using your gravity riveter? It produces sharper rivets and less distortion than a cutting mat.

 

Adrian

[k22009]

10 hours ago, adriank said:

Have you tried putting a sheet of aluminium beneath the etch when using your gravity riveter? It produces sharper rivets and less distortion than a cutting mat.

 

Adrian

 

Hi Adrian

 

Yes i have tried a thin aluminium sheet as well as the cutting mat, the problem was i didn't want any distortion with the frames, keeping them perfectly straight is vital, overlays would have been better (as in quite a few Malcolm Mitchell kits) but i understand that there would have been quite a few variations with these, especially with the variety of early lightening holes that were gradually filled in due to them creating a weakness in the frames.

[sjp23480]

15 hours ago, k22009 said:

Over the last few years i've opened the green box containing the beautiful etches and castings for the Finney A1/A3 so many times, i've poured over the parts, digested the instructions and diagrams so many times but always put everything back neatly and closed the lid, thinking another day maybe.

Dave,

 

Like you , I had one of these kits in my stash for many years, like you I opened the box many times, admired the quality of the components, studied the diagrams and instructions and closed the lid.  Then one time I opened the box, got the camera out and photographed the etches, considering how I might tackle the kit I decided to sell it to someone that could make a decent job of it.

 

Good luck - I shall watch with envy!

Steve

[Camperdown]

Rivets on black painted frames are completely invisible, and if behind the wheels they can be a pain as they can catch on the back of the crankpin, if clearance is tight.  So my advice would be to just leave them out.  At the front, near the cylinders or bogie, or at the back near the pony truck, rivets --- or boltheads, anyway --- can sometimes be visible and quite distinctive.  But behind the driving wheels, never.

 

Looking forward to the rest of this tread.  Good luck.

[k22009]

I've pretty much followed the instructions so far without diverging. The frame spacers are a very good fit with just the half etched slots in the frames needing a little work with a scalpel to remove the faintest hint of cusp edges which stops the full width spacers locating correctly. There are some small overlays to modify slightly and add to the outsides too, centre sandboxes are a fold up part of the lower frames.

There are some tiny brake hanger pivot covers that need drilling to fit over the brake hangers that are  suggested to be fitted next but i can't fit these yet as the compensation beam pivot needs to be fitted beforehand. Martin suggests using 0.45mm wire for the hangers but i've opted to use lace pins with the heads soldered on the inside which are around 0.55mm dia. I'll then add some brass tube over the top to act as spacers between frame and the hangers, the hangers  can then be sprung onto the ends of the cut down pins.

 

Without too much effort a nice square set of frames is produced. 

 

 

 

Coupling rods next so that the hornblocks and bearings can be fitted.

 

[k22009]

A slight deviation from my plan to do the coupling rods. As i had the springs removed i decided to make these up and fabricate keeper plates that they could be attached to.

 

The keeper plates are just some Nickel silver offcuts drilled through with the frame spacers tapped 12ba, with the springs clamped in position small gussets are then soldered onto the keeper plates. This will enable the wheelsets to be removable (the brake assembly will also be removable when i get to them).

 

 

 

 

[Michael Edge]

On 16/10/2022 at 08:58, k22009 said:

 

Hi Adrian

 

Yes i have tried a thin aluminium sheet as well as the cutting mat, the problem was i didn't want any distortion with the frames, keeping them perfectly straight is vital, overlays would have been better (as in quite a few Malcolm Mitchell kits) but i understand that there would have been quite a few variations with these, especially with the variety of early lightening holes that were gradually filled in due to them creating a weakness in the frames.

Not thin aluminium sheet, I use a short length of aluminium angle held in the vice. Distortion is fairly minimal but does occur with any form of rivet pressing, parts often have to be gently straightened afterwards.

[Chas Levin]

I've also found a piece of thin lead sheet under brass to punch rivets into provides the right degree of give but with suitable surrounding support.

[k22009]

Coupling rods made up, you have to be careful with soldering these as the fine details are very close to the edges, these are forked and then pinned with 1mm dia nickel silver rod. I dabbed the ends of the inner part of the joint with brass black to stop any solder jamming up the joint, before soldering just from the rear.

 

 

Once the rods were made up then it allowed me to add the hornblock guides to the frames. The front pair were soldered in first, i used a long 1/8" rod through the bearings and a set square to make sure everything was at 90 degrees. Then the axle jigs with the springs in the centre to hold the bearings and guides in place. The coupling rods placed over the ends before soldering up to the frames. I've also formed and added the 4 bogie splashers.

 

 

Compensation beam to fit next before moving on to the rear frames and trailing truck. 

[ROY@34F]

On 15/10/2022 at 21:03, Chas Levin said:

Hello Dave, I shall follow with interest and I hope the build goes well: like you, I have one of these in the pile...

Me too have pondered the contents of the green boxes over the years . Following this with interest . Good luck .

 

 Regards , Roy .

 

 

[Camperdown]

On 19/10/2022 at 17:44, k22009 said:

A slight deviation from my plan to do the coupling rods. As i had the springs removed i decided to make these up and fabricate keeper plates that they could be attached to.

 

The keeper plates are just some Nickel silver offcuts drilled through with the frame spacers tapped 12ba, with the springs clamped in position small gussets are then soldered onto the keeper plates. This will enable the wheelsets to be removable (the brake assembly will also be removable when i get to them).

 

 

 

 

I use exactly the same keeper plate system, with the small difference that I place the screw holes longitudinally, rather than transverse.  I make the screw hole separation a multiple of 0.1 inch, so that the hole spacing matches the veroboard to which I solder the pickups.  The veroboard is glued to the keeper plate.

[k22009]

On with the rear frame extensions. The frames themselves are supported by a magnificent etched component that forms the frame support, radial truck guide and lower firebox support all in one, the piece is attached to the rear frame spacer.

 

 

The frames are etched brass and form easier than they would in Nickel silver but still needed a few attempts and tweeks to get them correctly aligned. The slots in the frames needed opening with a scalpel as they are only about 0.25mm wide to allow what i assume are cab supports to pass through. There is also a locating hole that fits over the rear brake hanger pin, so it's all quite tight.

 

 

 

Once the frames are fitted small details are added, steps, Cartazzi axle box ties and some small overlays along with the rear body fixing support.

 

 

The instructions here suggest to fit the rear spring brackets, if you fit these now though the Cartazzi axle boxes will not fit as they need to fit under them, so axleboxes first then spring brackets after.

Below are shown both items, the axle boxes need the flash removing, note there is a right and left hand item, John Hayes removes the hanger rods and replaces them with wire which i may do.

 

[k22009]

The rear radial truck is a simple 2 part etch that incorporates springing tabs and lateral restraint tabs, the hornguides on the rear frames are bent at slightly off 90 degrees so that the truck will slide smoothly.

 

 

In the instructions it suggests restraining the whole assembly with some flats soldered to the rear frame body. This would mean having it in situ during painting which in my books is a recipe for something to get stuck. To alleviate this i've made up a keeper that allows plenty of vertical movement but stops the whole assembly dropping out. This means the frame and the truck can now be painted seperately.

 

 

The bogie is likewise a fairly simple item with a stretcher, 2 sides which need rivets pressing out, ties, guard irons and front dust shields. 

 

 

 

I'll add a little weight to this with a few pieces of lead sheet, there's a slot on the centreline to allow some side to side movement.

 

 

 

The brakes are all generally 2 parts for each item which need sweating together to give some rigidity.

 

 

I've drilled out the brake cross shafts where the pull rods locate, 0.5mm wire has been added to resemble the bolt heads and filed down so they don't protrude too much.

 

 

I'll probably remove the flat etched brake shaft ends and replace them with some rod which will fit into the hangers better, especially as this will be removeable so will need to withstand a little flexing.

I've a spare set of old Romford wheels that i'll set up next so that the brakes can be assembled into a unit.  

Edited October 28, 2022 by k22009

[k22009]

One thing that isn't included with the kit is any of the major underframe pipework and i'm thinking mainly the injector pipes and manifolds. I have a very poor photo of a drawing showing some of it but if anyone has any photos or can glean some light into what i may need to include it would be appreciated.

[JeffP]

There used to be an excellent set of photographs on the DJH/Piercy website showing details under their 7mm A4.

That might help?

[k22009]

On 29/10/2022 at 07:43, JeffP said:

There used to be an excellent set of photographs on the DJH/Piercy website showing details under their 7mm A4.

That might help?

 

Thanks Jeff, had a look but the website seems to have been updated, i'm always dubious of using photos from models anyway, however i've started to look through the workshop photos from the latest 60103 refurbishment but i've so far found nothing. 

 

Brakes have been assembled and test fitted, the wheels are old Romfords, i've some Gibsons that will go on after the chassis has been painted. The brake cylinders needed carving , they would fit as is in P4 and most likely EM but not OO, I'm hoping they won't foul the bogie wheels.

 

 

And here frames, bogie and radial truck assembled to see how it sits and runs. I added some crankpins and later checked with the coupling rods attached too. All very smooth with not a hint of tightness. 

 

 

 

Cylinders next up. 

 

[k22009]

I've made a start on the cylinders/valve gear by identifying each part and drilling all of the initial holes whilst everything is well attached on the fret, some of the parts, especially the fork joints for the valve gear are very small, assembling these and getting moving pinned joints will be a challenge.

 

 

The slide bars are made up of 6 laminations, there are holes for 0.45 wire to locate and pin them all together while soldering. These haven't been dressed yet, once they are all together i'll do that.

 

 

Soldered together and dressed, i'll go over them with emery paper afterwards to remove the file marks.

 

 

You then cut off the rear and fit the cast crosshead. This needed the slots in the slide bars opening with a very thin filed down file and wet and dry. The casting also need just a small amount removing to ensure it slides smoothly, but like everything so far it all fits very nicely. Notice the slide bars are etched with left and right to orientate themm correctly, these marks are hidden within the cylinders so no need to remove.

 

 

Then just placed loosely in the folded up cylinder block to make sure everything fits ok.

 

 

 

[k22009]

Slide bars and all the castings added to the cylinders. The stiffeners at the junction of the slide bars and the cyliders needed to be added after the slide bars while it was easier to get access, the instructions suggest adding them at the end but it would make access quite awkward. 

The castings fit beautifully with minimal work required, it's obviously essential to take your time and make sure everything is lined up and sitting square, the rear and front valve crosshead guides are different so i made sure they were the correct orientation.

 

 

 

 

The small hole in the front cylinder stretcher at the side of the bent up tab is for the front centre valve rod on the 2 in 1 lever assembly, this is very close to the frame side in OO. 

[sjp23480]

Its interesting to see just how substantial the slide bars are, esp when compared to RTR and some other kit manufacturers - where just a sliver of brass/nickel silver suffices.

 

Great Work Dave - coming along very nicely indeed.

[k22009]

 

 

9 minutes ago, sjp23480 said:

Its interesting to see just how substantial the slide bars are, esp when compared to RTR and some other kit manufacturers - where just a sliver of brass/nickel silver suffices.

 

They do have a presence, for the modeller it's a big help as it means it's difficult to get them twisted as you can so easily with other kit manufacturers, of course this all reduces any clearances with wheels later. 

I've noticed one of the triangular stiffeners that fits onto the slide bar bracket later has been bent over so i need to straighten that.

[sjp23480]

12 minutes ago, k22009 said:

of course this all reduces any clearances with wheels later. 

Should be okay if you are building in 00 gauge, I would assume the kit was designed with EM or P4 in mind

[Chas Levin]

On 06/11/2022 at 13:46, k22009 said:

I've noticed one of the triangular stiffeners that fits onto the slide bar bracket later has been bent over so i need to straighten that.

As others have said, very nice work. I thought I'd noticed the bent over stiffener too, but then thought it must be a trick of the light or of perspective. Instant high-mag digital photography is hugley helpful isn't it!