Withdrawn wagon identification

[corneliuslundie]

I am in the process of transcribing from photos of the pages of the GWR Swindon withdrawn wagon register the withdrawal dates and other details of the various Welsh companies' wagons. But the entries below are beating me. Can anyone recognise the company represented by the initials ending in B? It doesn't look at all like R&SB.

The other mystery which we have not been able to pin down definitely is the references to Portishead. They come up frequently. It has been suggested that a lot of old wagons were sent there in  connection with the building of the power station and eventually broken up on site.

Thoughts will be gratefully received.

 

Jonathan

Edited October 16, 2022 by corneliuslundie
Typo

[kevinlms]

A bit of a list here, but nothing sticks out.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_early_British_railway_companies

[K14]

I read them as:—

 

Cleobury Mortimer (&) Ditton Priors

Port Talbot

Rhondda (&) Swansea Bay

Port Talbot

 

The 'S' is slightly unusual – at first I read it as an 'L', but I think that's because the tail of the B is almost merging with it.

 

More samples required!

[Michael Hodgson]

I don't see one ending in G. 

I agree with K14 that it's a bad S, though I first read it as a T, being very similar to T of Port Talbot.

If wagons are being broken up, the wood might well be unsuitable for further use, so fuel for the power station?

Would they be sent there loaded with coal for one final trip and broken up on site?

[phil_sutters]

19 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

I agree with K14 that it's a bad S,

It is in a cursive script. If you search for 'cursive script' you will find a whole range of scripts with slightly different characteristics, but that type of 'S' is fairly typical. Another term often used about that type of script, used in Victorian times and into the early twentieth century is 'copperplate'. When those scripts were handwritten, the variations obviously came with more personal characteristics.

[JimC]

I'd like to see a few more entries too. Are there any more that seem the same? And does the number of wagons involved give a clue to the size of the Co? Of course there's always elimination - are there any constituents not noted in your list that you'd expect to see? 

[corneliuslundie]

Doh! I proof read it three times and didn't notice that I had but the wrong letter. (now corrected)

I agree that the third entry has what looks as if it could be SB, possibly preceded by & but what would the first character be? It is certainly nothing like any of the Rs elsewhere on the page - there are quite a few Rhymney Railway entries. R&SB seems the most likely except for that first letter.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Here are a few more examples:

Jonathan

Edited October 16, 2022 by corneliuslundie
AND TO ADD ANOTHER EXAMPLE

[K14]

After a bit of Photoshoppery:—

 

 

I'm convinced that it reads RSB with no ampersand.

 

It looks like the writer has added a flourish on the downstroke of the R.

Here's my very quick 'n' dirty attempt:—

 

 

Pete S.

[JimC]

The second sample argues against it being an S. He forms the S in Sold quite differently. That presumes both are the same hand though. I tend to agree that what looks like a first character could be just a downstroke and we have three letters. Are there any other similar mystery entries, or is it just the one, and are there any entries that are unequivocably RSB? 

[corneliuslundie]

Thanks both. I'll have a look through other pages, but probably not today as I have other things scheduled. But the suggestion that the first "character" is actually part of an R makes sense.

It is possible that Harold Morgan transcribed the R&SB records as he did several South Wales companies, but they will then be in his handwriting which is sometimes tricky to read. I'll have to check, as they would be a useful back-up.

I have been doing these partly to get the records of "life after death" of a remarkable proportion of the wagons, ie transfer to Docks or Factor4y use, which as far as I know has not been transcribed by anyone else. Certainly Harold didn't. I did all the Cambrian vehicles some time ago as part of a WRRC project to produce a couple of books of Cambrian drawings likes those already published on the RR and Barry.

There are also many places where I have to make an "intelligent?" guess about the GWR number allocated to the vehicle. There are numerous different hands who added records over the years from 1922 and some are much easier to read than others.

Jonathan

[Mark Saunders]

Where are these registers currently located as the style of the red writing looks familiar to me?

[corneliuslundie]

The person who passed me the photographs only had them and not the original Register. I think the original is at the NRM.

Unfortunately there is a gap in the pages photographed between late 1924 and late 1925 and they end in 1931. The pages are headed "G.W.R. Carriage Department Condemned wagon stock". I think they are the same Registers as were copied by Harold Morgan, whose records are now with the WRRC and also at Cardiff Museum.

Even more interesting is a set of photos of pages from a register which is/was evidently at the NRM and on the cover has a label saying "42B  . . . 3783312 . . . RAIL254/365 . . . 6515173 Closure status: Open". This lists withdrawals in South Wales. There is some duplication and dates do not always agree, but there an even bigger proportion of the total were repurposed after withdrawal from capital stock.

John Lewis, the HMRS Rolling Stock Steward passed the material to me. It appears that he visited the NRM in March 2006.

Unfortunately there is no chance of me ever getting to the NRM to search them out.

Jonathan

[Penlowry]

3 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

 

Unfortunately there is no chance of me ever getting to the NRM to search them out.

 

 

If you are in absolutely no hurry at all (!) I can go and have a look at some point for you. I live in York and visit the Search Engine maybe twice a year to dig out drawings for the Hawksworth County project (and anything else Didcot asks me about). I work full time from home so can easily arrange a visit. They are beginning to know me at the Search Engine so I can usually get my hands on anything I ask for (such as the Duke class GA that I just wanted to see for my own amusement). 

[JimC]

Rail 254/365 is at Kew, not York. The other registers up to 1951 seem to be there too. 

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4350208

Description: Register of condemned wagon stock

Date:1924-1929

Edited October 17, 2022 by JimC