Cost of attending exhibitions

[Andymsa]

5 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Not so much the costs increasing but that I can't afford to continue to cover the whole of the insurance costs and neither should Peter cover all of the hall costs which, in effect, was a donation to the event.

How about looking at more sponsorship from local companies or corporates, a good example is a wood supplier for you base board needs. The fly in the soup as with everything suppliers have there own cost issues so spare cash for sponsorship is limited.

[PaulRhB]

3 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Not so much the costs increasing but that I can't afford to continue to cover the whole of the insurance costs and neither should Peter cover all of the hall costs which, in effect, was a donation to the event.

I can’t see any problems with a small charge or donations, I’d happily pay if I get there as I so enjoyed the one I got to. Getting time off to get there is my only struggle. 

 

 

I go to a couple of tiny shows that wouldn’t offer value for money compared to most club shows but the atmosphere and eclectic subjects mean I will travel an hour plus just to get there for a couple of hours and always come away more inspired and glad to have chatted to old and new friends. 
I value fun and most shows are a bargain still on that  😉

[Phil Parker]

27 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

I’m lucky to afford some of the great stuff that’s being released but I can’t afford all of it and I’ve got into other scales like 16mm for a bit of fun using under £50 laser kits for locos and stock. 

 

The larger scales are well supported with cheap kits - but if your dream is a full-fat RTR Class 47 then those won't satisfy you. I got into garden scales years ago because I had no money. Even the expensive stuff, like live steam locos, will come in at around the price of three of those 47's, and you can generally have ful with just one loco.

 

To go a bit broken record, model railway shows are cheap. For the price of admission, you get a full days worth of entertainment. OK, you have to get there, but that is the same with anything. Sitting at home in the dark staring at a wall while eating food from a supermarket bin is cheaper, but that's not a life.

 

There ARE ways that the cost can be brought down, but the main one is car-sharing, and watching (from the bus) the traffic going in to Stafford this year, I can't see that idea being popular judging from the number of single person occupants. In the old days, clubs would hire a coach and share the costs, some model engineering clubs still do, but my experience of that is people moan they prefer to drive.

[Ross34]

5 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Sitting at home in the dark staring at a wall while eating food from a supermarket bin is cheaper, but that's not a life.

 

 

 

Because I don't attend model railway shows anymore- well, not currently anyway, doesn't mean I'm "Sitting at home in the dark staring at a wall while eating food from a supermarket bin" ..what an odd thing to say?

[Andymsa]

9 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

 

 

To go a bit broken record, model railway shows are cheap. For the price of admission, you get a full days worth of entertainment. OK, you have to get there, but that is the same with anything. Sitting at home in the dark staring at a wall while eating food from a supermarket bin is cheaper, but that's not a life.

 

 

unfortunately there are many who have no choice and things will only get worse. It’s not how cheap shows are but will ppl be able to afford them and associated costs. 

[Phil Parker]

8 minutes ago, Ross34 said:

Because I don't attend model railway shows anymore- well, not currently anyway, doesn't mean I'm "Sitting at home in the dark staring at a wall while eating food from a supermarket bin" ..what an odd thing to say?

 

I didn't say you were. It was a more general point.

 

3 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

unfortunately there are many who have no choice and things will only get worse. It’s not how cheap shows are but will ppl be able to afford them and associated costs. 

 

That's true. And I suspect the results of this will be tragic.

[37114]

The cost rises hasn't really put me off as I don't do loads of shows as a punter due to using up most of my passes out with exhibiting but I am conscious the squeeze on costs is likely to result in organisers putting more scrutiny on which layouts they book and how much it costs. I called it out on another thread but one show I have lined up will no longer insure layouts due to the cost of insurance and with the costs of cheaper end hotels rocketing, I can see longer distance invites drying up a bit, particularly for some of the larger layouts with large crews/van hires/ armies of operators.

[njee20]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

My own view is at first thought, that the cost aspect of attending shows will have a minimal effect, granted for some it will be a limiting factor. But I am thinking of people of my own age, it may well be younger modellers, especially those with school age (or younger) children may decide its either too expensive or they will cut out unnecessary spending

 

It will depend greatly on the type of customers the show attracts. More importantly for the older folk it may be the fear of getting infected with covid or influenza that dictated show attendance, some are conscious of the cost fuel, I fall into the group of those who do not do many miles and have fuel efficient car, so the odd trip is not an issue

 

Things may change later once the larger energy bills arrive

Children are cheap once they go to school, we pay £1000/month for my daughter to attend nursery 3 days a week!

 

I'm fortunate that the rising cost of living hasn't really impacted me/the family in any meaningful way. Exhibitions are a sufficiently cheap facet of the hobby, and one that I really enjoy, that it would come a long way down the list of things I'd cut. Even attending ~10 shows a year is probably on par with a couple of loco purchases, and I'd purchase fewer locos before I stopped going to shows. Cutting out takeaways would save more. 

 

That said, I am being slightly mindful around travel. I want to go to Warley, which is a 300 mile round trip, basically a full £80 tank in my (not sensible) car. My usual attending partner is likely otherwise engaged, I would happily get the train, but Avanti's mess means no fares being available, so I'll probably drive myself. The bigger issue for me is actually the moderate boredom of the 300 mile drive rather than the cost though. If anyone West Sussex/Surrey area fancies a lift share to Warley I'm happy to drive!

[AY Mod]

56 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

How about looking at more sponsorship from local companies or corporates, a good example is a wood supplier for you base board needs.

 

It's not applicable to the event that the comment related to; we do have trade who chuck some money into the kitty but the aim of that kitty is to raise money for good causes. I can't imagine many timber merchants looking to sponsor something which is, ultimately, unseen. This is not a world of 'influencers'.

[njee20]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

My own view is at first thought, that the cost aspect of attending shows will have a minimal effect, granted for some it will be a limiting factor. But I am thinking of people of my own age, it may well be younger modellers, especially those with school age (or younger) children may decide its either too expensive or they will cut out unnecessary spending

 

It will depend greatly on the type of customers the show attracts. More importantly for the older folk it may be the fear of getting infected with covid or influenza that dictated show attendance, some are conscious of the cost fuel, I fall into the group of those who do not do many miles and have fuel efficient car, so the odd trip is not an issue

 

Things may change later once the larger energy bills arrive

Children are cheap once they go to school, we pay £1000/month for my daughter to attend nursery 3 days a week!

 

I'm fortunate that the rising cost of living hasn't really impacted me/the family in any meaningful way. Exhibitions are a sufficiently cheap facet of the hobby, and one that I really enjoy, that it would come a long way down the list of things I'd cut. Even attending ~10 shows a year is probably on par with a couple of loco purchases, and I'd purchase fewer locos before I stopped going to shows. Cutting out takeaways would save more. 

 

That said, I am being slightly mindful around travel. I want to go to Warley, which is a 300 mile round trip, basically a full £80 tank in my (not sensible) car. My usual attending partner is likely otherwise engaged, I would happily get the train, but Avanti's mess means no fares being available, so I'll probably drive myself. The bigger issue for me is actually the moderate boredom of the 300 mile drive rather than the cost though. If anyone West Sussex/Surrey area fancies a lift share to Warley I'm happy to drive!

[PaulRhB]

22 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

unfortunately there are many who have no choice and things will only get worse. It’s not how cheap shows are but will ppl be able to afford them and associated costs. 

Well with people you know on here or  friends nearby share a lift etc, a bit of coordination can save everyone quite a bit of money and make acquaintances into mates. I’ve paid for friends to get into shows or go to the pub when I know money is tight due to them having kids to consider too. There are lots of ways to continue enjoying life and when it’s those mates that make the day out fun it’s not charity it’s just sharing as your day is better too. 

[Andymsa]

1 minute ago, AY Mod said:

 

It's not applicable to the event that the comment related to; we do have trade who chuck some money into the kitty but the aim of that kitty is to raise money for good causes. I can't imagine many timber merchants looking to sponsor something which is, ultimately, unseen. This is not a world of 'influencers'.

the timber merchant was an example of an idea. It’s not about influencers but adjusting to the times we are in, and unless we move from the reliance of traders paying for a stand and just increase admission prices to cover costs to such a point that will put off visitors I do fear the future.

[RichardT]

1 hour ago, Andymsa said:

How about looking at more sponsorship from local companies or corporates, a good example is a wood supplier for you base board needs.

Interesting idea. How did this work when you tried it?

 

RichardT

[AY Mod]

23 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

unless we move from the reliance of traders paying for a stand and just increase admission prices to cover costs to such a point that will put off visitors I do fear the future.

 

What I read into that is that someone else has to pay for something that, as Phil says, is a cheap day out (aside from the variables of parking and travel which a show organiser cannot cater for).

[Allegheny1600]

I might be a bit of an odd one out but I’m becoming a bit jaded with model railway exhibitions!

My first show to visit was when I was about 14 years old - that’s over forty years ago now. I have no idea how many shows I’ve been to in the intervening years but it’s quite a few and includes European ones.

I’m still a fully committed railway modeller, indeed it’s my only hobby. I don’t do football or any other sports, any other pastimes I do are either free like walking or very cheap like watching TV.

 I did have other hobbies but they have fallen by the wayside over the years.

I have most of actual models that I want but I’m still buying books, magazines, videos, tools, glue, track and ancillaries.

 I have an adequate car and house and enjoy good home cooking - I really don’t get out that much but I don’t feel trapped or inadequate in any way.

 I quite object to paying any more than £10 for an exhibition entrance - even one of the “big” ones.

 

When you add in the cost of getting to the show and at least a drink or two, it doubles the price of a local show and for something like Warley, well I’m looking at close to £50 to £60, for what?

Getting squashed, pushed and shoved and pummelled, strangers barging into you, kids screaming into your ear and one’s nose being assaulted by the inevitable soap avoider.

Plus, the chance of picking up a cold or flu, never mind Covid, because some folk have to get their fix when they should be recovering at home!

 

Inspiration? Can get that from YouTube and the internet including on here!

Socialising? No.

Purchases? Maybe but see above.

 

Sorry but I don’t find it appealing enough to pay for anymore.

John

[jonhall]

We have arrived at a perfect storm, with multiple cost increases hitting exhibition organisers, traders, exhibitors and visitor, but its a storm thats being brewing for some time, and in many respects the biggest cost of a show to the organisers is the staff - which is almost free if you have able bodied members, and exhibitors willing to travel (in return for enjoying their experience). Its clear that the two year hiatus has made a lot of people reconsider what they are prepared (or able) to do. The only reason we have a show scene is because hundreds of people work for free for 2-3 long days. The cost of attending a show is probably subsidised by over 50% even at the minimum wage, and several times that if the 'wage' was at their normal working salary. 

 

It seems likely to me that a lot of shows are going to NEED to put up their prices to cover significant increases in input cost and reductions in revenue from trade and visitor. That will need care, as there can be a diminishing return, if the increased cost puts off more visitors than the increased income provides. A show that has 1200 visitors paying £9 might not be as attractive to Traders as the same show with 1500 visitors paying £7, but by the same measure, 1200 visitors who are prepared to put their hands in their pocket might be better customers?

 

I'm sure the hardened exhibitors can recall 'slow' shows where a shortage of visitors has made the experience a bit of a chore, but the opposite can be true - I found Uckfield a couple of weeks ago squeezed far too much in to make seeing layout very straightforward, would I have paid twice as much to discourage half the visitors from coming, so that I could see the layouts better? Possibly.  But that makes the show even more vunerable to outside influences, would a rail strike, petrol shortage (or price spike) or bad weather conspire to stop them coming?  

 

Jon

[Phil Parker]

2 minutes ago, Allegheny1600 said:

Sorry but I don’t find it appealing enough to pay for anymore.

 

Then don't. But you'll be generous enough to allow those of us who do still enjoy shows to go.

 

Warley is not the only show. Personally, I get a great deal of pleasure from much smaller events. A couple of weeks ago, I dropped in to the Heart of England Narrow Gauge modellers in Rugby. Lovely little event, a few layouts operated sporadiaclly due to chatting. A single second hand trader and some really, really excellent cake. In travelling terms, it took as long for me to get there as it does to the NEC, but with free parking. I don't think they were charging on the door, donations only. If you don't like the big events, there are plenty of other options. Shows are not a one size fits all job.

[Allegheny1600]

1 hour ago, Andymsa said:

How about looking at more sponsorship from local companies or corporates, a good example is a wood supplier for you base board needs. The fly in the soup as with everything suppliers have there own cost issues so spare cash for sponsorship is limited.

 

13 minutes ago, RichardT said:

Interesting idea. How did this work when you tried it?

 

RichardT

I’ve been a member of four different groups in my time and at least two of them, maybe more, certainly used to have local traders, builders merchants, timber supplies etc advertising in their guides, it was good cheap advertising for them.

 I admit, it’s probably different now with “social media” , such firms probably use that to a greater extent now but I’m sure that some firms are still in the dark ages!

[Andymsa]

The impression I’m getting is that there appears to be reluctance to change and to look at different methods of financing shows. As an example let’s take Warley it’s £18.00 or £20.00 for advance tickets, let’s  say the price goes to £25 or even £28 how many would not go, at what point is the tipping point that puts you off going, attendees of an exhibition fall into 3 camps. There are the die hards go to as many shows and not bothered by cost, then there are the occasional attendees and followed up by the dad with son or daughter who likes trains, the proportion of attendees of warley are made predominantly by the first two groups. The point is the cost of bigger events like warley to put on face bigger challenges than the smaller town show and face disappearing because smaller shows can adapt better as the mum and dad attendees will happily pay for a smaller show than for instance warley if prices were to rise dramatically. It’s not about what we perceive as serious modellers as value  of an exhibition, but the ppl we want to encourage into the hobby to see that value or put another way the cost for a family to attend warley £37.00 with one child as opposed to a local show I recently went to £10.00 for a family. Also the bigger shows do tend to be located out of town as opposed to smaller shows which attract more families than the out of town ones.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Andymsa

[PaulRhB]

Ultimately the crowds will tell. I’ve been to two shows in the last month, one was much better and busier than before and I’ll be going again as a result. The other was an excellent show but poorly attended and I’m pretty sure it was lack of advertising here and other free sources that hampered it. If I’d just gone to one I’d have no balance. 
I’ve travelled a long distance to one show so far this year and was delighted by the day out as I combined it with some other things. 
I’ve been out for two meals with friends this last week and spent significantly more than the last three shows combined but had fun so I may not go and see quite as many gigs as I usually do because they are even more expensive but I’m not thinking of scaling back the exhibitions so our hobby won’t see the results of my cost saving. As I said at the top when all shows are struggling we may have a problem but I don’t think the good ones will as the there was a good reason for the only drop I’ve seen. Much like loco prices have risen I think we need to realise and extra £3-5 isn’t huge to get in, just don’t go to Costa that day or have one less pint, that’s better for your health too much like a good show is for your mind ;) 

[Andymsa]

3 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Ultimately the crowds will tell. I’ve been to two shows in the last month, one was much better and busier than before and I’ll be going again as a result. The other was an excellent show but poorly attended and I’m pretty sure it was lack of advertising here and other free sources that hampered it. If I’d just gone to one I’d have no balance. 
I’ve travelled a long distance to one show so far this year and was delighted by the day out as I combined it with some other things. 
I’ve been out for two meals with friends this last week and spent significantly more than the last three shows combined but had fun so I may not go and see quite as many gigs as I usually do because they are even more expensive but I’m not thinking of scaling back the exhibitions so our hobby won’t see the results of my cost saving. As I said at the top when all shows are struggling we may have a problem but I don’t think the good ones will as the there was a good reason for the only drop I’ve seen. Much like loco prices have risen I think we need to realise and extra £3-5 isn’t huge to get in, just don’t go to Costa that day or have one less pint, that’s better for your health too much like a good show is for your mind ;) 

To put another slant on this, I went to GETS to look at a new product release. It’s relatively an expensive item but a well deserved price for what it is, in comparison it’s relative to at least 2/3 sound chipped locos. But ppl baulked at the price of the new product, I guess perceived value at a basic level is that there’s a price point that ppl are put off paying which would equally apply to exhibitions, it’s in our nature to get the most for the less cost.

[Andy Hayter]

Regarding the break point for not attending Warley, from my own perspective, the entry cost is close to immaterial.

 

If I attend a UK exhibition it is primarily to be able to get to a whole host of traders at one location and that then limits the number of shows that meet the criteria to the very biggest or the highly specialised (Railex for example).  I do accept that many items could be bought on line but that starts to get very pricey* and some items cannot be sent abroad - or at least the seller won't.  

 

So costing everything to get to such an exhibition:

Travel to/from airport:  perhaps around £80

Parking:  £30

Airflight: £200 -perhaps more

Hotel accommodation - 2 nights:  £150

Meals:  £ 40

Possible car hire (Warley scores because I can fly into Birmingham airport, but other locations are not so well placed);  £100

 

The cost of entry starts to look rather insignificant.

 

I accept that my situation is not typical but do consider that such costs are likely to apply to anyone who lives a long way for a major exhibition location.  They may not need to fly but rail costs over long distance can be quite similar and long distances almost force you into overnight accommodation.  

 

 

* Books being a good case in point.  They are heavy, so P&P charges are high.  They are not VAT rated in the UK, so the sales price is the sales price.  On arrival in France they are subject to 20% VAT on the book and the P&P charges.  Then there is a handling fee for collecting the tax that is due.  You can certainly balance a lot of the costs of attending an exhibition against the mail order costs.

[RichardT]

17 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

. It’s not about what we perceive as serious modellers as value  of an exhibition, but the ppl we want to encourage into the hobby to see that value or put another way the cost for a family to attend warley £37.00 with one child as opposed to a local show I recently went to £10.00 for a family

Andy (?)

Have you any idea what family admission to any kind of paid-for entertainments/cultural events/visitor attractions cost?  Model railway shows aren’t even in the top 50% for cost.  If your argument is that entry needs to be near enough free in order to drum up interest - well football, concerts, theatre, preserved railways don’t seem to agree.

 

If rising prices hit your family budget then you’ll be cutting down on optional excursions. But that’ll be across the board, and model railway exhibitions don’t live in their own separate universe.

 

If what you mean is “I, personally, am cutting back on going to exhibitions because it’s too expensive for me” then just say so.  Over time the performance of exhibitions will reveal if that’s a widespread phenomenon.  
 

RichardT

 

[AY Mod]

2 minutes ago, RichardT said:

If what you mean is “I, personally, am cutting back on going to exhibitions because it’s too expensive for me” then just say so.

 

I suspect that's the case; extended to 'getting others to question themselves so that they agree with me so I don't feel guilty that the demise of a number of events may be anything to do with my mindset'.

 

16 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

it’s in our nature to get the most for the less cost.

 

We are lucky that there are a number of people in the people in the hobby who support events, shops and smaller suppliers and helping to play a part in their viability.

 

Use it or lose it.

[Andymsa]

11 minutes ago, RichardT said:

Andy (?)

Have you any idea what family admission to any kind of paid-for entertainments/cultural events/visitor attractions cost?  Model railway shows aren’t even in the top 50% for cost.  If your argument is that entry needs to be near enough free in order to drum up interest - well football, concerts, theatre, preserved railways don’t seem to agree.

 

If rising prices hit your family budget then you’ll be cutting down on optional excursions. But that’ll be across the board, and model railway exhibitions don’t live in their own separate universe.

 

If what you mean is “I, personally, am cutting back on going to exhibitions because it’s too expensive for me” then just say so.  Over time the performance of exhibitions will reveal if that’s a widespread phenomenon.  
 

RichardT

 

My points seem to be misunderstood, I’m very aware of prices for events for families in general, I’m not comparing this event with that event for cost, the point is will attendances drop and cause further stress on putting on big exhibitions, this does not only apply to railway exhibitions or any other event but across the board. But as we deal with railways here that was the topic I was referring to not other events which I know will equally be affected.