Garter Blue A4s with BR lettering

[Chris Higgs]

I recently picked up one of the Hattons O Gauge A4s in LNER Garter Blue livery, which I am hoping to detail with "British Railways" in the tender, as I know at least some carried that post-1948 before being fully repainted into BR colours. But I have a couple of questions I would like answers to

 

1. After the war, I understand that the sideskirts on the A4s were not reinstated. But were the remaining cylinder covers repainted Garter Blue along with the loco, or were they black?

2. Which locos carried the "British Railways" on the tender? I have bought one with a corridor tender and single chimney. I have found photos of "Seagull", but it had a double chimney (I suppose I could change the chimney).

 

Any help would be gratefully received

 

Chris Higgs

[Nearholmer]

Look for pictures of Mallard during the 1948 locomotive exchanges. 

 

There are several photos here if you scroll down a bit https://svsfilm.com/nineelms/coffin.htm

 

Blue cylinder covers, and what looks like white lining around the “smoke box” black section. Was that a standard part of the livery?

Edited November 27, 2022 by Nearholmer

[Chris Higgs]

Seagull has the white line too:

 

https://www.facebook.com/1549224832004990/photos/a.1550675501859923/2099497466977721/?type=3

[Chris Higgs]

There is even video

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/locomotive-testing-station/zv3rf4j

[slilley]

17 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

I recently picked up one of the Hattons O Gauge A4s in LNER Garter Blue livery, which I am hoping to detail with "British Railways" in the tender, as I know at least some carried that post-1948 before being fully repainted into BR colours. But I have a couple of questions I would like answers to

 

1. After the war, I understand that the sideskirts on the A4s were not reinstated. But were the remaining cylinder covers repainted Garter Blue along with the loco, or were they black?

2. Which locos carried the "British Railways" on the tender? I have bought one with a corridor tender and single chimney. I have found photos of "Seagull", but it had a double chimney (I suppose I could change the chimney).

 

Any help would be gratefully received

 

Chris Higgs

 Question 1. The cylinder covers were painted blue and the red and white lining around the parabolic curve was reinstated with Garter Blue.

 

Question 2. According to the RCTS Locomotives of the LNER Part 2A Four A4s had the E prefix added to their numbers, Nos 4, 21,22, and 27. 

All got BRITISH RAILWAYS with Garter Blue bar Nos 14, 25, 26, and 32. No 25 retained LNER until 16/12/1949.  Meanwhile 4 locomotives in June and July 1948 were given an experimental livery of purple, Nos 60024, 60027, 60029, and 60029. 

 

BR numbers were introduced from March 1948 onwards and Nos 60007, 60023, and 60034 had the number painted on the front at buffer level as before. The rest when renumbered got smokebox numberplates.

 

All A4s were single chimney at the time except for Nos 22, 32,33,and 34.

 

As for corridor tenders, well they could be one of two types depending on whether they were streamlined or not. The non streamlined corridor tenders have the beading at the top of the tender.

 

Hope this helps. 

 

Simon 

 

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, slilley said:

... Four A4s had the E prefix added to their numbers, Nos 4, 21,22, and 27. ...

22, at least, retained stainless steel numbers with a painted "E" and "British Airways" - the front number was not prefixed.

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

and "British Airways"

 

Were there stewardesses on board?

[Wickham Green too]

What do you think the corridor tender was for ? - so the pilot and flight engineer could be supplied with cups of tea etc. by the stewardesses. 😊

[Chris Higgs]

On 28/11/2022 at 17:17, slilley said:

 Question 1. The cylinder covers were painted blue and the red and white lining around the parabolic curve was reinstated with Garter Blue.

 

Question 2. According to the RCTS Locomotives of the LNER Part 2A Four A4s had the E prefix added to their numbers, Nos 4, 21,22, and 27. 

All got BRITISH RAILWAYS with Garter Blue bar Nos 14, 25, 26, and 32. No 25 retained LNER until 16/12/1949.  Meanwhile 4 locomotives in June and July 1948 were given an experimental livery of purple, Nos 60024, 60027, 60029, and 60029. 

 

BR numbers were introduced from March 1948 onwards and Nos 60007, 60023, and 60034 had the number painted on the front at buffer level as before. The rest when renumbered got smokebox numberplates.

 

All A4s were single chimney at the time except for Nos 22, 32,33,and 34.

 

As for corridor tenders, well they could be one of two types depending on whether they were streamlined or not. The non streamlined corridor tenders have the beading at the top of the tender.

 

Hope this helps. 

 

Simon 

 

 

Mine is a non-streamlined corridor tender.

 

Chris

[Wickham Green too]

On 28/11/2022 at 17:17, slilley said:

... As for corridor tenders, well they could be one of two types depending on whether they were streamlined or not. ...

Don't forget that the tenders ( probably all non-streamlined ) used in the Locomotive Exchanges were modified at the rear so they'd fit under 'foreign' water cranes.

[Barclay]

There is a nice photo of 60007 at Rugby in 1948, in 'The Big Four in Colour' by David Jenkinson. It is in very clean garter blue, including cylinders/valence edge. There is a red/white dividing line on the parabolic curve. The wheels are dark red, and it has a BR style smokebox numberplate. The number and 'British Railways' are in cream, and Mr. J says the 6 in the number is not true Gill sans as the top is curved, apparently quite common on ex-LNER engines during this period.

[doilum]

42 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Don't forget that the tenders ( probably all non-streamlined ) used in the Locomotive Exchanges were modified at the rear so they'd fit under 'foreign' water cranes.

Three were modified. Seagull and Lord Farringdon some how managed to end up with each other's tender and swapped back the following year. Mallard borrowed the tender from Woodcock which was modified and returned immediately after the exchanges.

[slilley]

5 hours ago, doilum said:

Three were modified. Seagull and Lord Farringdon some how managed to end up with each other's tender and swapped back the following year. Mallard borrowed the tender from Woodcock which was modified and returned immediately after the exchanges.

When Alan Pegler bought Flying Scotsman he wanted a corridor tender and so 60103's streamlined non-corridor tender was swapped with 60034. For many years it ran with the lowered back end. When the tender top was renewed in the mid 1980s the back reverted to the original design.

[doilum]

Anyone who is really interested or needs something to fill half an hour could do worse than Google "A tangle of tenders".

[Steamport Southport]

7 hours ago, Barclay said:

There is a nice photo of 60007 at Rugby in 1948, in 'The Big Four in Colour' by David Jenkinson. It is in very clean garter blue, including cylinders/valence edge. There is a red/white dividing line on the parabolic curve. The wheels are dark red, and it has a BR style smokebox numberplate. The number and 'British Railways' are in cream, and Mr. J says the 6 in the number is not true Gill sans as the top is curved, apparently quite common on ex-LNER engines during this period.

 

It's on the Colour Rail website if anyone wants a look. Many photos in that book are.

 

Colour photo of Seagull as well.

 

https://colourrail.co.uk/gallery/steam

 

 

Jason