“Stand-off Scale” Wagons

[RonnieS]

 

 

The concept of “Stand-off Scale” was introduced to us many years ago by a new member of Wolverhampton Model Railway Club. Basically, it relates to the further away you stand from your model the more you can get away with in terms of detail. If your model has a frontage of 3 feet and the scene is a loco and 3 wagons, then every item must be to a very high standard. However, if your model has a frontage of 40 feet and the scene contains a loco and 40 wagons then you will be standing further away. And if (for instance) the 2nd wagon and the 32nd wagon in a train have the same running number or have missing brake cylinders then it may not be noticed. Acceptable compromise.

 

During the lockdown I built from kits or modified 45 wagons. These remained unpainted in a box until recently as I already had more stock than I needed.

A visit to Tony Wright’s Little Bytham a few weeks ago convinced me that

1) I had lost my “Modelling Mojo” and

2) that that a surplus of stock is OK.

I restarted the project and progress, although slow is listed below

 

First up were 26 open wagons. 20 of these were 2 boxed sets each containing 10 Dapol bodies acquired years ago. Most of these I fitted with Parkside underframes, Lanarkshire Models buffers and Romford wheels. Paint was Phoenix and transfers from Cambridge, Modelmaster and Railtec.

 

The last six were bodies I acquired from eBay at a less than a tenner the lot! very clean even all the door bangers were undamaged. In the below photograph you will notice a "TEAVAN". This is a very old Hornby Dublo body (ends modified) on a Parkside underframe. Now this is a real “Stand-off Scale” Wagon defiantly not a glass case job but OK in the middle of a 30 van fitted freight passing at 40mph.

 

 

 

[RonnieS]

The old Airfix /Dapol body is worthy of a new underframe. The Parkside PA16 contains 2! The LMS J hangered one and a plain one. The below wagon has the plain u/f + a spare Red Panda headstock drilled to accept buffer heads from Wizard. The tie bar is from .030" square Slaters microstrip and the brake gear & levers from my scrap box. You get 2 sets (1 spare set) with the Parkside PA09 underframe. The transfers are a Railtec special.

4mm-9965 12 ready-made BR passenger vehicle/wagon numbers of your choice

(Usual no connection other than as a satisfied customer comment}

[RonnieS]

Whilst in transfer mode I transferred up a couple of Skytrex O gauge vans for my good buddy Paul.

I think these fit in as “Stand-off Scale” Wagons but in you would be quite a way back!

[Ralf]

13 hours ago, RonnieS said:

During the lockdown I built from kits or modified 45 wagons. These remained unpainted in a box until recently as I already had more stock than I needed.

A visit to Tony Wright’s Little Bytham a few weeks ago convinced me that

1) I had lost my “Modelling Mojo” and

2) that that a surplus of stock is OK.

I restarted the project and progress, although slow is listed below

 

Glad to hear some mojo is returning, I think any remaining mojo I'd have had would have been scared off by seeing something as vast and well modelled as Little Bytham! Glad to hear it's had the opposite effect. 

 

As for surplus stock, I'm still on the fence, can't resist purchases but know it's likely to be sold having not been unboxed in a few years! 

 

Love the concept of Stand Off Scale, you'll need to view my efforts from a very long way away!! 

Cheers and keep it up! 

Ralf

[RonnieS]

Another typical stand off scale wagon is  the  Hornby Dublo ply Banana van. The Dapol bodies which were available for about £1.50 up to fairly recently. Good for the time but spoilt by a hideous "shelf" above the running number. A fudge here is to hide it with a transfer pretending to be a chalk board. Combined with a Red Panda clasp braked under frame they scrub up nicely.

Below

• Original
• Under construction awaiting brake levers and tare decals note black Fox decals hiding the "shelf"
• Standing off on Old Mills------

The camera shows what is acceptable in stand off scale. Shiny roofs and hairy scenery are not!

[RonnieS]

On 01/12/2022 at 12:48, RonnieS said:

The old Airfix /Dapol body is worthy of a new underframe. The Parkside PA16 contains 2! The LMS J hangered one and a plain one. The below wagon has the plain u/f + a spare Red Panda headstock drilled to accept buffer heads from Wizard. The tie bar is from .030" square Slaters microstrip and the brake gear & levers from my scrap box. You get 2 sets (1 spare set) with the Parkside PA09 underframe. The transfers are a Railtec special.

4mm-9965 12 ready-made BR passenger vehicle/wagon numbers of your choice

(Usual no connection other than as a satisfied customer comment}

A mate (Hal) asked me a while back how I fitted Parkside U/Fs to Dapol Conflat bodies. So as the principles are same for any crossbreed. I took these pics of the last batch of Opens:-

 

• Glue on buffer beams (on opens you might use the short one from the kit, the Red Panda or a slope ended one -(use prototype photos to decide) I file the moulding "pip" off to allow Evo Sticking on a lump of lead but if you want a loaded wagon you might not need to.
•  
• Make and fit spacers either side of the original body fixing "tags" this will give you the right  spacing and position for the side members. I beef up the buffer beam to accept my coupling method but you may not need to. Build as per kit instructions. Snip of excess tag protruding below solebar.

[SM42]

Just to add to the above, 

 

if you are adding a Parkside underframe to an ex Mainline lowfit, the little round locating lugs on the underside of the body are conveniently located just the right distance apart for locating the solebars.

 

It's almost as if Palitoy had a crystal ball

 

Andy

[RonnieS]

Yes I remember now

[Mark Saunders]

I find the most disappointing thing about the recent releases of wagon kits is the lack of headstocks on the chassis moulding and have it incorporated with the wagon ends. Not as simple to put a new chassis under a rtr body!

[SM42]

14 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

I find the most disappointing thing about the recent releases of wagon kits is the lack of headstocks on the chassis moulding and have it incorporated with the wagon ends. Not as simple to put a new chassis under a rtr body!

 

Indeed. 

 

There are few choices out there. 

 

The Red Panda U/F does give an option  if cross kitting with a moulded into the end kit. 

 

The only other spares  are shorter for things like 16t minerals. 

Why full width replacement beams aren't a  thing is beyond me. 

 

I've yet to find a material that makes a new buffer beam that sits comfortably with me in he appearance stakes. 

Fine at 3ft though I suppose. 

 

The other issue is with after market buffers that insist on a 2mm locating lug that needs a hole in the beam almost as wide as the beam itself. 

 

I have resorted to carefully slicing off those moulded on buffer beams as the best, but not the most convenient option.

 

Again at normal viewing distances good enough to do the job, which is of course the whole point of this thread. 

 

Andy

[RonnieS]

On 07/12/2022 at 12:08, SM42 said:

 

Indeed. 

 

There are few choices out there. 

 

The Red Panda U/F does give an option  if cross kitting with a moulded into the end kit. 

 

The only other spares  are shorter for things like 16t minerals. 

Why full width replacement beams aren't a  thing is beyond me. 

 

I've yet to find a material that makes a new buffer beam that sits comfortably with me in he appearance stakes. 

 

 

 

 

Andy

Totally agree but so far I have manage due my scrap box (topped up by mates) spare Ratio, Ian Kirk etc and some I can't even remember where they came from. Some opens had short beams, some full and some sloping ends. I also trimmed down a batch of Keen (intended for coaches) buffer beams.

[RonnieS]

On 05/12/2022 at 17:13, RonnieS said:

Yes I remember now

Well that is a poor pic! 2nd attempt below.

On the left is a Main line body Parkside LMS J hanger chassis. Next up same top, LNER chassis. This might not have the correct buffer beam as I think they all had Wooden ones? The next is a Cambrian kit showing the slight differences (ends and corner panels)for the similar LMS and far left the steel bodied Red Panda Kit.

So; the Mainline/Bachmann version as produced, wrong chassis for a BR diagram 1/001, wrong body for a LMS diagram 1986 one. Does it show in stand off scale?

[37Oban]

Hi,

 

just come across this thread.  Without realising, my St Mungos' layout is being built to a similar ethos!  Underframe details that can only be seen if the model is upside down?  Ignore and save time!  Can't make out details from 3ft away, cheat!  I have nothing against those that add every  conceivable detail, in fact I am awe of the work they do, but it's not for me!  As I've stated before, our hobby is a broad church, and we do what we feel is acceptable, and most comfortable doing.  

 

Roja

[RonnieS]

On 09/12/2022 at 14:03, 37Oban said:

Hi,

 

just come across this thread.  Without realising, my St Mungos' layout is being built to a similar ethos!  Underframe details that can only be seen if the model is upside down?  Ignore and save time!  Can't make out details from 3ft away, cheat!  I have nothing against those that add every  conceivable detail, in fact I am awe of the work they do, but it's not for me!  As I've stated before, our hobby is a broad church, and we do what we feel is acceptable, and most comfortable doing.  

 

Roja

Yes! One group of the vehicles that has a less than perfect U/f are the Dapol and Hornby milk tanks. I will say here that most of mine are converted bodies by Rob Kinsey. I think these subtle variations work very well.  

[RonnieS]

Stand off scale is a Two Edged Sword! I took this photograph to show that with a new U/F, a repaint and Cambridge Custom Transfers the old Mainline ex GWR fruit van is OK but all it shows is that without a coat of matt varnish both it and the Bachmann fruit van next to it  look too shiny.

[ess1uk]

Great work 

[RonnieS]

So if we get some dry days there are about 60 wagons requiring matt varnishing. These are mainly my "Lockdown projects" . I know from previous experience that spraying on a damp day causes the dreaded "bloom".

[ess1uk]

That’s a lot of wagons 

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I feel consistency is the key, with all wagons to approx the same standard.

[RonnieS]

16 hours ago, ess1uk said:

That’s a lot of wagons 

It was a long Lockdown plus no hols for almost a year!

[LL1060]

Wow! I don't think I own 60 wagons, unless I count some still in the post.

 

I've also seen this approach to the hobby described as an 'impressionistic' style, where capturing the essence of a time and place is key, not necessarily capturing every minute detail. 

[RonnieS]

New years resolutions include upgrading some  stand off scale wagons that I previously found acceptable.

These 3 container Triang items have received Parkside underframes and ABS buffers  but the containers were (coat of paint apart) unmodified I now have some Cambridge Custom Transfers that I hope will transform them. I have another 4 untweaked Triang similar wagons that I recently picked up for £2 lot. Again much weathering required to bring them to life.

[RonnieS]

Another of the wagons at the "halfway house stage is the Tri-ang single bolster. I have a prototype photograph of one fitted and 1 non fitted being used as match trucks in a goods train. The load being longer than the accompanying bogie bolster. Therefore seeking to replicate this I converted a couple of ancient trucks . Shortened Parkside and Red Panda

underframes and cast metal buffers. Still requiring more work this is progress so far

[RonnieS]

Now this is NOT my work. It is one of John Isherwood (of Cambridge Custom Transfers fame) projects. I hope he does not mind me posting this here? I was so inspired by this I downloaded the pic and

ordered a set of transfers. Unfortunately John's photo disappeared after the  late March 2022 technical problems on rmweb.

So the next but one project for me is a couple of HD Chlorine tank bodies on Parkside underframes.

[Paleopotato09]

Sounds like i might have to try out some of your techniques on some Triang wagons i have been gifted.