Placement of ground signals, which side of the track? 1930s GN(LNER) practice

[ColHut]

Hello,

 

I am trying to establish if there was a preference for placing ground signals on the outside RHS or inside LHS of the track (Based on the normal rather than reverse direction of travel)?
 

There seems no discernible pattern looking through the various signal diagrams on John Hinson’s site.

 

I thought it might be based on driver’s side, or sighting, but am confounded by the variation, frequently at the same signal diagram.  The only standout being if a platform or other obstruction prevented siting one on the other side.

 

Was it a feature of early converted point indicators that required these to be on the side of the deviation?

 

regards

 

 

[russ p]

They try to have them on the left , but certainly not always.  Things that come into play are sighting and clearance.  Stuff like this is why we have route learning as some are in very odd places. Lowestoft used to be very odd for ground signals

[Mark Saunders]

Look at York, 1991 resignalling , running ones tend to be Left and back over tend to be right!

[Grovenor]

Current practice may well not be the same as 1930s. You need contemporary diagrams, and preferences may well depend on whether locos on the system concerned are RHD or LHD.

[Michael Hodgson]

7 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

Look at York, 1991 resignalling , running ones tend to be Left and back over tend to be right!

I would say that was fairly logical.  Running signals are generally on the left, and it makes sense for any associated shunt signals to be similarly placed.  When setting back tender first you're on the other side, so that's still easier to see. 

 

Also where there are multiple tracks you need to know whether the signal applies to the track to the left or to the right of the signal.  It can be unambiguous if there are signals applying to both tracks and they are placed side-by-side in the 6 foot, or where they are on the far side for the pair.  If there can still be doubt, it can be clarified with the supplementary arrow sign such as this (see www.railsigns.uk 27.2)

 

What is perhaps more difficult to fathom is where signals could read to various possible tracks - does this signal read to the opposite main line, to the sidings or to both?  Route knowledge is needed on this, though it's easier where each possible route has its own disc, stacked vertically.

 

 

[bécasse]

Doubtless you are well aware of this already, but, unlike the disc signals of the other three grouping railways, those of the LNER (and most of its predecessors where they used them) were UQ, not LQ, in other words they rotated 45° clockwise when pulled off, not anticlockwise. Very distinctive (it affects the position of the lenses so is obvious even when "on"), but a real trap for the unwary! 

 

I also suspect that, like the Southern, the LNER didn't use stacked discs, (but I could be wrong on that, it isn't easy to check quickly).

[micknich2003]

This is the nearest I have personally seen to an LNERly "Stacked Disc".j

[micknich2003]

Just found the attached, from memory both discs were the same diameter.

[31A]

LNER 'splitting' disc signals at Sandy (ex GNR); in this case they are to the right of the direction of travel of the movement they control!

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p1063009244/hA02E7C91#ha02e7c91

 

Pretty sure I remember that these were replaced at some stage by 'stacked' discs before the colour light signalling was installed, but haven't found a picture yet.