Cement mixer engineering trains

[letterspider]

I picked up a PIKO wagon like this a few years ago from a model shop in Milan

 

and I've decided to try and model something closer to this (picture taken from Paul Bartlett's website)

 

However I don't understand what the function is of the hopper. Is it for storing extra cement, so the mixer can be reloaded?

If so would it be covered at the top from the elements and also where would the engineering team have obtained their water from?

I am assuming the large cylindrical tank at the far end is a fuel tank to provide diesel for the power generator?

 

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, letterspider said:

I

 

However I don't understand what the function is of the hopper. Is it for storing extra cement, so the mixer can be reloaded?

If so would it be covered at the top from the elements and also where would the engineering team have obtained their water from?

I am assuming the large cylindrical tank at the far end is a fuel tank to provide diesel for the power generator?

 

 

Interesting wagon.  It does look as though the hopper is mounted on that arm pivoted in the middle of the wagon and just resting on the trestle at the rear.  So the hydraulic ram would be able to raise the hopper to sit above the funnel over the mixer to load it.  But not under OHLE! 

 

A ready-mixed road lorry turns up already loaded from a depot and it has a fairly short limited time before its load goes off - I'm not sure the timing would work with the vagaries of railway engineering jobs and their frequent delays/postponements.  So would they actually send this wagon out with its mixer drum empty and only load it and start mixing when reuiqred on site?  If so, the tank is presumably water.  You also need water to wash the drum out.  I don't think you need that a tank anywhere near that size for the fuel used to power the generator for the single load this wagon could deliver. 

 

It looks as though there is a similar wagon coupled to it whose hopper sits much lower on its wagon; perhaps they went out as a train if several loads were needed on site.  Road delivery seems a lot more practical, so these vehciles were probably only for use on jobs where road access was not available.

[black and decker boy]

These were used on the ECML electrification for casting OLE bases / footings (and possibly other lines too).

 

you do not want cement to get wet. It sets hard. It doesn’t matter if your sand & gravel are wet so long as there’s no cement with them until you are ready to pour the concrete.

 

I don’t know how these operated but my guess based on how readymix works & needs to be used, would be that the mixer drum is preloaded with the necessary sand & gravel. The small hopper contains the matching amount of cement which is added at the last moment and the cylinder contains water to be added with the cement at point of final mixing.

 

Concrete is a bit like cooking, a set volume / weight of each ingredient is needed to a “design mix” to achieve a certain strength.

 

HGV readymix wagons have a similar water tank fitted.

[letterspider]

Thanks. However on Paul Bartlett's site we also have these conflat wagons..so I am assuming these were loaded up with cement and taken straight to the site for pouring, or the square tank lwould be containing water for mixing with the dry components on site?

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by letterspider

[Fat Controller]

19 minutes ago, letterspider said:

Thanks. However on Paul Bartlett's site we also have these conflat wagons..so I am assuming these were loaded up with cement and taken straight to the site for pouring, or the square tank lwould be containing water for mixing with the dry components on site?

 

I have seen at least one example where bagged cement was carried in a converted LNER 12t van; the conversion consisted of cutting a doorway in both ends.

[SED Freightman]

8 hours ago, letterspider said:

 

 

However I don't understand what the function is of the hopper. Is it for storing extra cement, so the mixer can be reloaded?

If so would it be covered at the top from the elements and also where would the engineering team have obtained their water from?

I am assuming the large cylindrical tank at the far end is a fuel tank to provide diesel for the power generator?

 

 

 

These wagons look similar to those used for the in situ construction of mast bases etc. on the St Pancras - Bedford electrification, was the photo taken in Bedford yard? I would guess that both the mixer drum and hopper would be filled with aggregate before departure to site. On arrival at the worksite, water (from the cylindrical tank) and cement powder (from the small covered hopper on the next wagon) would be added to the mixer drum as necessary.  When the first mix had been used, the larger hopper could be raised and emptied into the mixer drum and the processs repeated.

[SED Freightman]

43 minutes ago, letterspider said:

Thanks. However on Paul Bartlett's site we also have these conflat wagons..so I am assuming these were loaded up with cement and taken straight to the site for pouring, or the square tank lwould be containing water for mixing with the dry components on site?

 

These look as though the mixer drum would be filled with a dry mix before setting out for the worksite with water being  added to the drum on arrival.

[eastwestdivide]

If it’s any help IDing wagons and their purposes, the L prefix on departmental wagons (as on LDB700494 above) denoted “electrification department”. 
Longer list of those prefixes (scroll down) at https://www.ltsv.com/w_ref_numbers.php

Edited January 1, 2023 by eastwestdivide
List

[letterspider]

Thanks for that, I think I will try and model the Conflat variant as it will be simpler. 

I am guessing that the livery of the Conflat would be Olive Green?

Edited January 1, 2023 by letterspider

[37114]

14 hours ago, SED Freightman said:

These wagons look similar to those used for the in situ construction of mast bases etc. on the St Pancras - Bedford electrification, was the photo taken in Bedford yard? I would guess that both the mixer drum and hopper would be filled with aggregate before departure to site. On arrival at the worksite, water (from the cylindrical tank) and cement powder (from the small covered hopper on the next wagon) would be added to the mixer drum as necessary.  When the first mix had been used, the larger hopper could be raised and emptied into the mixer drum and the processs repeated.

I was watching  the BFI film which shows these in use on the Bed Pan electrification, the amount of concrete per post was less than a full drum so I guess 2 full drums may have lasted the days work.

[LNERGE]

There was the remains of one near New England, Peterborough for a while. A start had been made cutting it up with a gas axe. They had cut the barrel as far as it's near full load of set concrete and left the rest.

 

edit to add..

 

I’m hoping this will flush out a picture of it

Edited January 2, 2023 by LNERGE

[Covkid]

Back in the early 1980s I was "invited" one Friday afternoon for a ride.  Our job was to collect a cement mixer train from Wednesbury and take it to Watford Jn yard. Our loco was a class 37 and we accomplished the job with relative ease, backing the train into the yard at Watford Jn. 

 

The crew had presumably made themselves known to the Control because we were requested to run light into Euston to drop the guard off so he could work the 00:15 Euston-Aberystwyth. We were then back light to the New E at Willesden to take a crane and brakevan back to Bescot, using a Stonebridge Park guard. 25mph seemed a slow old trek back, and I think we made it just about dawn.