Help identifying what's going on in this 1970's Haywards Heath goods yard photo

[Lacathedrale]

There aren't many photographs of Haywards Heath goods yard, but here is one:

 

This is the approximate location and orientation:

 

 

As my local station, and having never seen this before I feel like there are so many questions to ask...

 

1. I wasn't aware that HHE formed any meaningful marshalling location, and yet there are filled stone/stand/gravel hoppers in the foreground and nowhere they can be unloaded. Why?
2. There is coal in the staithes and infront of the loading dock, but the siding looks essentially derelict - particularly with the brake carriage against the dock, what would be happening here? Looks like BR steel XP opens by the staithes?
3. What is the big black box at the end of the dock? 
4. BR Standard brake van behind the staithes?

 

Anything else interesting I have missed?

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Looks to me like the assenbly point for a possession to relay track, the wagons seem to full of ballast and there are engineering vans and wagons in view.

 

Mike.

[Wickham Green too]

Whatever's in those hoppers looks too fine for ballast - and I've never seen ballast carried in ( what were originally ) coal hoppers ..... could it be sand from Redhill ? - but why here ?

The Maunsell Brake Third is obviously in Departmental service - so SOMETHING is going on here ! ( Can it be enlarged to read the inscription ? )

I think the big black box might be a hopper for bagging domestic coal - so there may be a front-loader lurking out of sight somewhere.

The goods brake is of LMS design - though possibly BR built.

[Aire Head]

Am I missing something because this doesn't scream 1970s to me?

[Paul H Vigor]

1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

There aren't many photographs of Haywards Heath goods yard, but here is one:

 

This is the approximate location and orientation:

 

 

As my local station, and having never seen this before I feel like there are so many questions to ask...

 

1. I wasn't aware that HHE formed any meaningful marshalling location, and yet there are filled stone/stand/gravel hoppers in the foreground and nowhere they can be unloaded. Why?
2. There is coal in the staithes and infront of the loading dock, but the siding looks essentially derelict - particularly with the brake carriage against the dock, what would be happening here? Looks like BR steel XP opens by the staithes?
3. What is the big black box at the end of the dock? 
4. BR Standard brake van behind the staithes?

 

Anything else interesting I have missed?

"An Amey Roadstone plant (now Hanson Aggregates) was established in the Ardingly goods yard shortly after closure of the line, and was served by a daily freight working from Haywards Heath using the former down local line. Access to the up main and up local lines at Copyhold Junction has been severed. The new occupant demolished the station platforms (except for a short length of the former up platform near the road bridge). The track in the station was removed and a loop installed at the southern end of the former goods yard area. The station buildings remain, used as offices by Hanson Aggregates. A pair of ornamental cast iron station canopy brackets and the ticket office window were sold as lots 302 and 303 by auctioneers T. Bannister & co. at their July 1983 auction at the Ardingly historic vehicle spectacular show at the South of England Showground."

 

Copy and paste 51.03244,-0.09037 into Google for map and street view of Hanson Aggregates.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Paul H Vigor
to add information

[Nearholmer]

Almost certainly late 60s, but could just about be early 70s. The EMU (4-Cor?) in the background only has a yellow patch on the corridor connection, for instance.

 

I wondered if the photographer had caught the daily shunt of the yard by goods train, and that the hoppers were merely shoved in here out of the way while other shuffling continued. They do look like sand to me, although it’s really hard to be certain, so maybe going from Redhill southwards to “somewhere”. The Hassocks sand line was closed by then wasn’t it?

 

The Departmental coach may be a permanent resident. There were various “hutments” at HH for PWay and for M&E “electric track equipment” gangs, possibly also S&T, so it might belong to be of them, for instance. These old coaches were used like portakabins as overspill accommodation.

[Wickham Green too]

Trying to get a handle on the date from the 4COR, I've found a John Scrace photo showing a COR/BUF/COR formation - with small yellow patch - departing Haywards Heath, southwards, in May 1968. In the background there are a number of small ( and 21T ) hopper wagons in the yard ..... it would be good to know how long after 'shortly after closure' ( in 1963 ) Amey/ARC/Hanson moved to Ardingly.

[Nearholmer]

If you look at “disused stations”, Mr Catford posts photos that he took at Ardingly in 1969 which clearly show the track having been used recently, and telltale aggregate spill traces in the four-foot, so it looks as if these wagons could be on their way to Ardingly.

 

Oh, yes indeed. One of his photos shows wagons like these and what looks like a concrete batching plant. If they were making concrete, it could be sand, stone, or “beach”, as in shingle with coarse sea-sand. There were big ballast pits at The Crumbles at the time, which I think were rail served, ditto Rye Harbour, although that may have closed to rail by 1969. The other source of “beach” was EST&T at Cuckmere Haven, but although that had a 2ft gauge railway to Exceat Bridge, it had no SG connection.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Nearholmer

[black and decker boy]

There is a previous thread on southern aggregates that contains a useful pot here

 

Topic-130292-aggregate-trains-1970s

 

So the former unfitted Ore Hoppers with a fitted head & brake van each end could fit what we see here. The other stuff could just be P-Way / S&T

[NIK]

Is the van attached to the hoppers the van that was put at the rear of the Redhill sand trains to block loose sand hitting the brake van?.

Or was that a more general practise with sand trains?.

 

Are the hoppers a departmental design or revenue?.

 

 

[Mallard60022]

Almost deffo Sand Hoppers from Redhill as suggested. IIRC contaminated Sand was used for Engineering Work as it needed to be absolutely pristine Sand out of Merstham for the Glass Works. Apart from that, no suggestions other than the Ardingly Branch to the Ballast Loader.

P

[Mallard60022]

3 minutes ago, NIK said:

Is the van attached to the hoppers the van that was put at the rear of the Redhill sand trains to block loose sand hitting the brake van?.

Or was that a more general practise with sand trains?.

 

Are the hoppers a departmental design or revenue?.

 

 

Van probably had cement in it?

[Fat Controller]

4 minutes ago, NIK said:

Is the van attached to the hoppers the van that was put at the rear of the Redhill sand trains to block loose sand hitting the brake van?.

Or was that a more general practise with sand trains?.

 

Are the hoppers a departmental design or revenue?.

 

 

The Oakamoor trains certainly used vans at both ends, both to act as 'wind breaks' and to add some much-needed brake force, The hoppers are a revenue type, designed by (though never built by) the LNER. They were built to Diagram 1/142 and 1/144, production being completed in 1953. Peco- Parkside do a kit.

[Nearholmer]

The vans could be fitted head or barrier, but the fact that they are plastered with “posters” suggests they may have carried bagged cement at some stage, possibly when photographed here. Surely they didn’t run a concrete batching plant using hundredweight bags of cement ….. labour-intensive, or what!?

 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Nearholmer

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, NIK said:

Is the van attached to the hoppers the van that was put at the rear of the Redhill sand trains to block loose sand hitting the brake van?.

Or was that a more general practise with sand trains?.

 

Are the hoppers a departmental design or revenue?.

 

 

The hoppers are revenue wagons - not departmental.  They have traffic dept numbering etc and are all labelled which also suggests they are most likely revenue traffic.  The material in them looks too coarse for sand - more like gravel/small stone which also ties in with something  for use in concrete.

 

The coach is obviously departmental and presumably stabled there for soome sort of office although it might possibly be there for marshalling purposes.   There are two steel bodied Hyfits next to it which are more than likely traffoc wagons but what they're doing in that siding is not obvious: again does it suggest that shunting was underway?  there are also a couple of departmental opens on the further siding nearest the running lines.

 

What I can't find out is when Haywards Heath was closed for goods traffic but judging by the date I wonder if this had occurred by the time this photo was taken - except possibly for coal class traffic?  This in turn would suggest that it was a bit of a dumping ground for engineers' vehicles plus, clearly, dealing with wagons to be forwarded to Ardingly and possible vacuum head wagons connected with either or both.  The real oddity among all of that would be the steel bodied Hyfits but the engineers were not abpve helping themselves to such vehicles at tmes.

[SED Freightman]

4 hours ago, Paul H Vigor said:

"An Amey Roadstone plant (now Hanson Aggregates) was established in the Ardingly goods yard shortly after closure of the line.

Amalgamated Roadstone were using the goods yard at Ardingly prior to closure of the Branch, however their leased area was susequently extended to include the old station. I recall the then depot manager in the 1980's saying that when he started work there he had commuted by train from somwhere along the East Coastway line.

[Paul H Vigor]

7 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Whatever's in those hoppers looks too fine for ballast - and I've never seen ballast carried in ( what were originally ) coal hoppers ..... could it be sand from Redhill ? - but why here ?

The Maunsell Brake Third is obviously in Departmental service - so SOMETHING is going on here ! ( Can it be enlarged to read the inscription ? )

I think the big black box might be a hopper for bagging domestic coal - so there may be a front-loader lurking out of sight somewhere.

The goods brake is of LMS design - though possibly BR built.

Given the presence of other department vehicles, I wonder if the brakevan might be a Shark ballast plough?

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, Paul H Vigor said:

... I wonder if the brakevan might be a Shark ballast plough?

'fraid not - the Sharks had verandas arranged differently. ☹️

[Wickham Green too]

........ and, of course, few ballast ploughs were suitable for use in third rail territory ! ( I'm not sure if any LMS/BR style Sharks were adapted.)

[Enterprisingwestern]

18 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

........ and, of course, few ballast ploughs were suitable for use in third rail territory ! ( I'm not sure if any LMS/BR style Sharks were adapted.)

 

As ploughing wouldn't be carried out whilst the juice was on, I wouldn't have thought the blade was wide enough to impinge on the third rail?

Some ballast hoppers had third rail specific shutes.

 

Mike.

[TJ52]

The Chris Durrant book on Brighton Line signalling has a John Scrace photo from September 1965 also showing hopper wagons!

 

As for when the yard ceased to function, it isn't clear from the book but there is a photo from October 1977 showing a large number of vans and another showing the rebuilt goods shed in August 1979 with the comment that 'even at this relatively late stage' it was 'still handling a considerable amount of parcels traffic from the Red Star offices next to the booking office in the station forecourt'. Certainly by this time the number of goods sidings had been much reduced as the 1977 photo shows that a large part of it was now a car park.

 

I do remember when using the car park that some of the dividing barriers had been made using old lengths of rail.

 

Terry

[Wickham Green too]

3 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

..., I wouldn't have thought the blade was wide enough to impinge on the third rail? ...

The BR standard Shark was 8'3'' over plough. ☹️