Hornby 2023 - New tooling - Streamlined B17/5

[Pete the Elaner]

On 10/01/2023 at 07:56, nathan70000 said:

Definitely unexpected, quite a brave choice but I could well be tempted! GE area modellers have been spoilt by Hornby over the years.

 

These of course were built to run with the dedicated carriage sets built for the East Anglian. I seriously doubt we'll ever see those RTR, but a quick Google reveals a few photos of these two locomotives on secondary services, particularly towards the end of their lives as streamliners. 61659 seems to have lost its parabolic curve when repainted in green after WW2, and 61670 stayed "black" (looks more like a thick coat of grime to me!) until the very end. Plenty of livery pitfalls for the unwary.

 

Did the B17/5s ever make it off the GE and appear on the GC section? What's the furthest north they got?

 

You must be joking about that bit, right?

It is impossible to model the London end of the GE since c1960 without a lot of building some hard to source kits because it has been dominated by EMUs.

Anyone wanting to model the GE as they saw it would need to be over 60. 10 years older to have even a vague memory of it.

[Black Marlin]

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but will these be the first full-fat, non-Railroad B17s to appear in LNER livery with the group standard tender?

[The Stationmaster]

11 hours ago, jools1959 said:

I’m sure that the two loco’s ran with other passenger stock other than ‘The East Anglian’ stock, especially in BR days, and as shown in the terrific picture, freight workings.

On a point, almost, of pedantry that sir is not a 'freight train' but a Milk Train with a passenger brake van.  Yes, it is carrying Class C lamps so could be a freight train but the type of tank cars and the passenger van are the big giveaway.  But I don't doubt that B17s, with or without, overcoats could well have sometimes been seen freight workings

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

You must be joking about that bit, right?

It is impossible to model the London end of the GE since c1960 without a lot of building some hard to source kits because it has been dominated by EMUs.

Anyone wanting to model the GE as they saw it would need to be over 60. 10 years older to have even a vague memory of it.

I confess - I can remember not only B17s (non-streamlined of course) but even some steam worked suburban services at Liverpool St.  And surely that was only a few years ago wasn't it?

[adb968008]

6 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I confess - I can remember not only B17s (non-streamlined of course) but even some steam worked suburban services at Liverpool St.  And surely that was only a few years ago wasn't it?

I can honestly 100% say if suburban steam was running out of Liverpool st just a few years ago, I would have been on it, over it, watching, photoing it like rash !!!

 

:-)

 

i do have some glimpses of past life.. I think most recent would be LUL, but in recent memory there has also been the Steamrailmotor at Brentford, 9466’s little trundle to Chinnor, 1744’s posing at KX, and I suppose the filming of the C class at KX and T3 drag to Waterloo might count if one pretends.

 

I do dream that someone may someone someday may do a London South suburban trip around various commuter loops from Clapham using 76084 and 31806… its 27 years since 30053 did that ecs working from Waterloo.

 

 

 

[The Badger]

1 hour ago, Black Marlin said:

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but will these be the first full-fat, non-Railroad B17s to appear in LNER livery with the group standard tender?

I reckon so. By my estimation the only two LNER-liveried B17s we've had since they re-tooled it were Sandringham and Kilverstone Hall. both of which had the short GE tender. It'd be quite nice to have a 'footballer' B17 in LNER livery at some point, but alas it would seem like Hornby just don't have enough apple green paint for the larger tender...

[Downer]

1 hour ago, Black Marlin said:

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but will these be the first full-fat, non-Railroad B17s to appear in LNER livery with the group standard tender?

I believe tHe B17/5s had high slightly streamlined tenders.

[rogerzilla]

If they did a footballer one, 90% of potential buyers would be put off by the team chosen!

[PaulG]

For my Colchester model railway, I have collected over the years a few photos.

 

Both of these photos were taken at Colchester in 1948 and 1949, and show both streamlined locos. Copyright  marked on pictures

 

Edit

61659: Note the black to smoke-box is a "vertical" join to the LNER green, rather than the green follow the shape of the streamlining as per A4.

 

61670 is in black.

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by PaulG

[Bucoops]

Interesting that the brake is the "wrong way" round on the top photo - I would have thought it was a fixed set?

 

The second photo is compartment stock so definitely not EA.

[Ken.W]

3 hours ago, Black Marlin said:

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but will these be the first full-fat, non-Railroad B17s to appear in LNER livery with the group standard tender?

 

 

No, as the above photos show, when streamlined both locos had unique high sided streamlined, but 6 wheeled, tenders

 

2 hours ago, The Badger said:

I reckon so. By my estimation the only two LNER-liveried B17s we've had since they re-tooled it were Sandringham and Kilverstone Hall. both of which had the short GE tender. It'd be quite nice to have a 'footballer' B17 in LNER livery at some point, but alas it would seem like Hornby just don't have enough apple green paint for the larger tender...

 

Unfortunately Hornby seem to have a liking for just repeating the same detail variation and livery combination, just with different numbers, rather than mixing different variations in different liveries

[Ken.W]

14 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

The second photo is compartment stock so definitely not EA.

 

And also has ordinary passenger instead of express headcode

[PaulG]

40 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

Interesting that the brake is the "wrong way" round on the top photo - I would have thought it was a fixed set?

 

The second photo is compartment stock so definitely not EA.

Hope that helps, so anything goes: milk tanks, Gresley stock.......

 

Peter Coster has some interesting photos of 61659 in 1948 and 1949 liveries,  in his book "The Book of the B17 4-6-0s". Irwell Press.

 

Paul

Edited January 11, 2023 by PaulG

[Bernard Lamb]

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I confess - I can remember not only B17s (non-streamlined of course) but even some steam worked suburban services at Liverpool St.  And surely that was only a few years ago wasn't it?

It feels like yesterday. Living in Billericay with mum while dad was living and working in Hemel Hempstead I grew up with steam at Euston and Liverpool Street on the regular trip between out two homes. 

Bernard b1943

[John Tomlinson]

On 10/01/2023 at 10:39, Bucoops said:

 

The East Anglian stock was the standard 61'6" 😉

 

Although having invested heavily in 52'6" kits it's only a matter of time!

 

I've got six of the Kirk kits done and awaiting painting. So we can predict the date of the Hornby release quite easily!

 

John.

[Bishdurham]

8 hours ago, rogerzilla said:

If they did a footballer one, 90% of potential buyers would be put off by the team chosen!

Unless it was West Ham!  

 

Up the Hammers!

[Bucoops]

8 minutes ago, Bishdurham said:

Unless it was West Ham!  

 

Up the Hammers!

 

Then it would be 120%!

[Ribird]

Do we have any confirmation from any source of which product code is which loco in which livery?

 

Hornby has it one way, and retailers have it another way? 
 

R30136 on Hornby:
    East Anglian in LNER with LNER Number Era 3
R30136 on retailer sites: 
    East Anglian in BR with BR number Era 4

 

R30137 on Hornby:
    City of London in BR with BR number Era 4
R30137 on retailer sites:
    City of London in LNER with LNER number Era 3

[5Dublo2]

3 minutes ago, Ribird said:

Do we have any confirmation from any source of which product code is which loco in which livery?

 

Hornby has it one way, and retailers have it another way? 
 

R30136 on Hornby:
    East Anglian in LNER with LNER Number Era 3
R30136 on retailer sites: 
    East Anglian in BR with BR number Era 4

 

R30137 on Hornby:
    City of London in BR with BR number Era 4
R30137 on retailer sites:
    City of London in LNER with LNER number Era 3

To add to that Simon Kohler (in the launch video) verbally said City of London would use LNER number and livery with East Anglian carrying BR(NE) number and livery. Where Hornby website shows the opposite.

I haven't seen any confirmation of which is correct

[Edge]

As suggested in the video, I’ve dropped an email to Mr Kohler to see if this can be definitively cleared up 

[mattkimster]

16 minutes ago, Ribird said:

Do we have any confirmation from any source of which product code is which loco in which livery?

 

Hornby has it one way, and retailers have it another way? 
 

R30136 on Hornby:
    East Anglian in LNER with LNER Number Era 3
R30136 on retailer sites: 
    East Anglian in BR with BR number Era 4

 

R30137 on Hornby:
    City of London in BR with BR number Era 4
R30137 on retailer sites:
    City of London in LNER with LNER number Era 3

I'd gone and placed a pre-order yesterday for R30137 thinking it was the LNER livery, but this afternoon the retailer got in touch to say that Hornby had supplied them the incorrect information. It seems the Hornby website was correct and so I've switched it to R30136. 

 

Given its pretty much the only new tooled main range steam loco and so would be likely to get a lot of attention, I'd find this kind of mistake a tad embarressing if it were me!

[nathan70000]

13 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

You must be joking about that bit, right?

It is impossible to model the London end of the GE since c1960 without a lot of building some hard to source kits because it has been dominated by EMUs.

Anyone wanting to model the GE as they saw it would need to be over 60. 10 years older to have even a vague memory of it.

I was thinking purely in steam terms, with the J15, B12, D16 etc. Also BR types that operated in that area like the Brush Type 2 and Britannias. For modern image modellers they've also done the 755.

 

First generation EMUs are a bit of a blind spot for manufacturers in general apart from the 3rd rail Southern types. I can't really see Hornby being interested in doing more since their 2Bil et al. were never great sellers and adding third rail is a lot easier than adding catenary.

[PaulG]

9 hours ago, 5Dublo2 said:

To add to that Simon Kohler (in the launch video) verbally said City of London would use LNER number and livery with East Anglian carrying BR(NE) number and livery. Where Hornby website shows the opposite.

I haven't seen any confirmation of which is correct

From what I've read/photos I think I'm correct in saying:

 

61659 East Anglian:
*War years painted plain black.
*April 1948 painted LNER green, which stopped at boiler band of smokebox, very "unusual" compared to A4 detail, BRITISH RAILWAYS in full on tender and BR number.
*July 1949 repainted BR plain black, revised/correct BR number style/font.

 

61670 City if London received plain black livery during war years, and retained plain black in BR days until streamlining removed.

 

Interesting visual difference between the two locos post war, were the valance was removed, can't just change the number.

 

Paul

[adb968008]

11 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

Then it would be 120%!

Nah, thats reserved for Millwall.

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Nah, thats reserved for Millwall.

 

Presumably there was never one named Millwall as even then they knew someone would have had the plates off before it was even officially named.

 

That and it fell outside the naming policy (boring!).