An O gauge station for Barry

[Harlequin]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Why do you want a fence?  Most people in past time had sufficient common sense not to fall off the edge of a station platform; there was little or no risk of pilferage from wagons because there were plenty os station staff about; and fences cost money.  Plus a fence on the platform edge would be foul of the permitted structure gauge.   And - for a real example - there wasn't a fence along the back platform face at Marlow which was also directly adjacent to a siding.

 

I was thinking mainly about Moretonhampstead but I have seen other examples in similar situations. Why would it foul the structure gauge? (The siding is slightly more distant from the platform edge along the top but you can't see that on my drawing.)

 

Anyway it's a minor point. I think I would do it if it were my model but Barry, "The Client", might not.

 

Edit: Sorry, I think I realise what you're saying, Mike: Because the platform is wider than the regulation 12 feet there's no need for a fence on those grounds. I hadn't actually measured it - but it is wider than 12feet along its entire length.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Harlequin

[Flying Pig]

To me, three sidings in the yard looks crowded.  I would reduce it to two (and relocate the loco shed as Phil suggested, or leave it out), which should give things room to spread a bit more.  

[Halton Boy]

I am having a problem with scaling the size of the platform and the buildings.

I used an online calculator . Six foot is 72 inches. 72 inches is 182.88 centimeters. the calculator turned this at 1/43 scale into 4.253 centimeters which is 42.5 millimeters. This makes the platform very narrow. I must be doing something wrong.

Cleve plan number 2 .

Cleve plan number 3 where I have narrowed the boards to help with moving them:

 

[Flying Pig]

2 minutes ago, Halton Boy said:

I am having a problem with scaling the size of the platform and the buildings.

I used an online calculator . Six foot is 72 inches. 72 inches is 182.88 centimeters. the calculator turned this at 1/43 scale into 4.253 centimeters which is 42.5 millimeters. This makes the platform very narrow. I must be doing something wrong.

Cleve plan number 2 .

Cleve plan number 3 where I have narrowed the boards to help with moving them:

 

 

No - 6 feet in 7mm scale is 6 x 7 = 42mm.  Your calculations are correct, but most platforms were wider than the minimum.  Does the minimum permissible  width depend on the presence or absence of a fence? The minimum for an island platform was greater than 6 feet.

[Schooner]

3 hours ago, Halton Boy said:

a final list of requirements:

• A commuter town by the seaside.
• Trains connect with ships from Cleve pier 
• The Cleve novelty rock factory
• The Cleve printing works, a major user of the railway.
• ...An UP siding, a Run round loop and Yard sidings with Goods shed and loading dock...
• (The engine shed is now only an option as the sidings are more important.)

This is a lot to fit in. Not just the tracks, but making it work: How do we know it's a seaside town? How do we see that trains connect with ships? How do we shewn the goods traffic is being sorted for the railway yard, rock factory and printing works?

 

I'm not convinced (for what little that matters) that starting from a conventional BLT is a viable approach. If the above really are requirements then we're looking at first principals and treating the model like a real railway: how to get the required traffic to the required locations in the available space.

 

This is a different approach to 'what labels do I put on the backscene buildings around my BLT' but is incredibly satisfying and would lead to a truly unique and equally satisfying model...

Edited January 15, 2023 by Schooner
On building etc dimensions - just look up those of a manufacturer. I tend to use Skytrex as the dimensions are clearly stated on the website and the photos allow useful comparisons :)

[Harlequin]

1 hour ago, Flying Pig said:

 

No - 6 feet in 7mm scale is 6 x 7 = 42mm.  Your calculations are correct, but most platforms were wider than the minimum.  Does the minimum permissible  width depend on the presence or absence of a fence? The minimum for an island platform was greater than 6 feet.

The 6ft was the minimum permitted distance between the platform edge and a vertical element such as a fence or station building wall. Of course there were places where this rule was not applied.

 

Minimum for an island platform was, wait for it, 12 feet. So yes, a fence could help with the compression for this layout if needed but would it look right? (I guess the platform at Marlow mentioned by Mike above was >12ft wide...???)

 

Edit: So I think Mike's point was that, because the platform is wider than the regulation 12 feet there's no need for a fence on those grounds. I hadn't actually measured it until writing this post.

 

Sorry @Halton Boy, it was hard to see from your drawing what the final platform width was going to be but it looks like you have plenty of room.

 

As I drew it, the platform edge has 35mm offsset from the platform line's track centre and ranges from ~92mm wide at the top of the ramp to ~192mm at the "station building". (I need to check the 35mm offset.) The more generous platform width than the strict minimum looks better.

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Harlequin

[Halton Boy]

Hello and thank you for your help.

I will look at all this later as I have to go to work now.

Here is plan number 4. I have removed the top siding and engine shed.

Barry likes the idea of the print works siding as Clevedon had an Up siding.

The engine shed is gone and now there is just water, the coal stage is an option for long distant freight, maybe.

It is single engine in steam with a ground frame worked on a train staff from Yatton.

There is a catch point protecting the yard. It helps to space the points.

I have narrowed the boards to 660mm. I will try and get the platform right. I put 42mm into Anyrail, but perhaps their scale is wrong.

I used the ruler in Anyrail and it measures  120mm from edge of track to edge of track.

The Skytrex loading bay platform is 50mm wide.

There is a bus which takes passengers to the pier. It waits for the train to come in. Times depend on the tide.

The rock factory uses sugar, from sugar beet, flavours which were made in Kingwood Bristol and wrapping materials.

The smell from Lucas Ingredients in Moravian Road Kingswood, which was founded back in 1926 was quite strange.

The print works uses paper and ink plus glue etc for binding.

Both use coal for heating.

I hope this will give Barry plenty to do.

[Halton Boy]

Hello everyone

First the good news, Barry likes the layout and is happy with the back story, 

Cleve is a seaside town like Clevedon but less popular.
Early morning goods with vegetables for the hotels and restaurants.

Commuter train morning and evening connecting with the main line at Yatton.

Printers and Rock Factory goods in and out.

Weekend Day trippers to "Barry’s Island" and Ilfracombe by paddle steamer from Cleve pier.

 

Barry is not worried about fences and lights etc because he is a big guy with big hands. 
He said he would most likely break them whilst he is trying to uncouple the wagons.

He does not want a station building for the same reason.

I just need to get the platform size correct on the plan. 12x7=84mm I have set the grid to 84mm and redrawn all platforms to that size.

Barry is saving up for a Dapol auto coach and the new Dapol 3MT 2-6-2.
So the layout is going to be Great Western and BR.

 

He wants to have two engines on the layout at the same time.
An early morning freight working which takes on water whilst the early morning commuter train pulls into the station. The freight waits until the passenger train departs then shunts the yard.
Does this mean we are back to having signals?
 

[Ray H]

10 hours ago, Halton Boy said:

Does this mean we are back to having signals?

 

I'm 99% certain that it does.

[Halton Boy]

Hello Ray, Hello everyone 

Here we go again.

I do not want to change the layout which Barry is happy with, so can we have the minimum number of signals to make it look right?

 

Does the catch point or trap point make a difference?

Now there are signals do we need a signal box or can the signals be operated from the ground frame.

With two engines I suppose we need a signal man. He would have to tell Yatton that the line was clear for the passenger train.

I assume that each train would have a single line token.

Once the freight train was clear the signal man could put its token into the machine to release a token at Yatton for the passenger train.

I am not sure I know what I am talking about.

 

Do I move the topic back to signalling?

 

I nearly forgot. Barry would like to know:

What wagons or vans would they have carried the sugar in for the rock factory?

GWR TEVAN GOODS VAN These are made by Peco
These vans were converted from Mica Insulated Vans in 1938.

They carried tea and coffee from the Lyons depot at Greenford into the 1960s. They featured a zinc-lined body.

 

What vans would they have used for books and magazines from the print works?

Would it have been a GUV or are these too new for 1947-1950 or too big?

What wagon or van would they have used to carry the rolls of paper for the print works? They would have to keep the paper dry.

Modern rolls of paper weigh about ten tons.

Thank you for your help.

[Ray H]

I've no great knowledge about GWR signals but I'll make the following observations to kick start things. The trap points from the yard onto the running line would be required to protect passenger trains from runaway wagons. You'll need a shunt signal at the toe end of the trap points to allow trains to leave the yard (and for shunting) A second shunt signal is required to leave the loop. On some regions this would be a yellow rather than red disc which would allow movements past the signal when at caution - yellow stripe = horizontal, and the disc cleared to head onto the running line.

 

You'll also need a platform starting signal. The home signal could be assumed to be just off scene so might not be required. That would, I think, have the main arm for the platform and a subsidiary arm on either side thereof, one to go into the yard and one for the loop.

 

Many years ago Sheffield Park on the Bluebell Railway had a lever frame on the platform. It was inside a building when I was there but may have been outside the building in BR/SR days.

 

Token instruments were known to be located in the booking office or station master's office but I'm not sure whether that was so on the GWR.

 

I think there wouldn't need to be more than eight levers plus a spare or two in the frame and that might have been less if one lever could work different signals based on the way the points were set so a small "box" should suffice.

 

Don't take the above for gospel but it might get other more knowledgeable people started.

[The Stationmaster]

Signalling is definitely required and if two trains are going to be preseent at the station at the same time there is no way round that.   So as a minimum you need the following -

 

1. A signal box, albeit only a small one - see item 4 below - with a Signalman although at times a Porter signalman could cover the gaps between the Signalmen's turns of duty.

2. There will have to be a block system which in turn means there will be a pole route to link this signal box electrically with the next one but taht would in any case also be needed for telephone circuits.

3. You will need signals. Two semaphore signals - i'e. the ones with arms that go down to indicate clear, would only consist of a Home Signal - placed at the toe of the point leading to the goods sidings, and a platform starting signal for a train starting from the platform.

You will also need a minimum of three ground disc signals - one at the toe of the trap points leading from the goods yard (which would be best modelled as a dummy in any case), a double disc, i.e. one disc above another, positioned by the Home Signal at the toe of the point leading to the goods sidings, and a single disc signal at the toe of the point leading from the loop out onto the single line.

And. finally, the point leading to the loop at the stop block end would havea ground mounted, rotating, point indicator worked by the point and not be a separate lever from the signal box.

4.  signal box levers - by total of each colour, not by their position in the lever frame

Black - 3 levers; blue - 2 levers; red - 6 levers.   Total 11 working levers probably with one spare or space so a 12 lever frame.  Which means a fairly small signal box almost inevitably set at ground level.  It will definitely be a building asit will contain not only a lever frame but an instrument for whatever system is used for single line signalling plus a telepehone and a desk plus a stove and so on.

[Halton Boy]

Hello Mike

I have amended the plan below.  I think I have followed what you have said. Please let me know if I have got this wrong.

The signal box and signals are readily available in O gauge.

Thank you for your help. 

[Halton Boy]

Hello Mike

I am not sure if I made a mistake with the ground signal from the loop.

I have moved it to the toe of the Y point.

Also I do not understand the signal box levers. 

There are six points operated by black levers. A trap point operated by a blue lever. Six signals operated by red levers.

If the curved point in the yard, the Y point on the loop and the Y point to the water/print works used ground levers operated by the fireman, would this mean three black levers in the signal box. 

Why are there two blue levers? Is one blue lever a facing point lock for the Y point platform/ loop from the main line where I placed the ground signal.

As a different question, on a model railway with points operated by point motors, I assume that Barry would buy three levers to operate the yard points and add them to the end of his lever frame. Which will be DCC Cobalt.

 

The protection for a main line from a runway on a siding is a trap point which leads to a sand drag (Wikipedia).

The Peco catch point SL-785BH is made to derail a runaway on a slope (Wikipedia). 

There is no room on the layout for the trap point and sand drag so can we ignore them and just put normal track in with the signal ? 

I am sorry for all the questions.

Thank you for your help.

 

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, Halton Boy said:

Hello Mike

I am not sure if I made a mistake with the ground signal from the loop.

I have moved it to the toe of the Y point.

Also I do not understand the signal box levers. 

There are six points operated by black levers. A trap point operated by a blue lever. Six signals operated by red levers.

If the curved point in the yard, the Y point on the loop and the Y point to the water/print works used ground levers operated by the fireman, would this mean three black levers in the signal box. 

Why are there two blue levers? Is one blue lever a facing point lock for the Y point platform/ loop from the main line where I placed the ground signal.

As a different question, on a model railway with points operated by point motors, I assume that Barry would buy three levers to operate the yard points and add them to the end of his lever frame. Which will be DCC Cobalt.

 

The protection for a main line from a runway on a siding is a trap point which leads to a sand drag (Wikipedia).

The Peco catch point SL-785BH is made to derail a runaway on a slope (Wikipedia). 

There is no room on the layout for the trap point and sand drag so can we ignore them and just put normal track in with the signal ? 

I am sorry for all the questions.

Thank you for your help.

 

Your previous post put all the signals in the right place - this one has for some reason moved the exit ground disc from the loop to a place where it does nothing at all.

 

Three black levers -  one works the poiint leading towards the goods. siding and the trap that corresponds with it,  one works the connection to the loop and the point from the loop that corresponds with it to form a crossover, and the other one works the runround connection near the platform end. the yard.

Two blue levers - one works the (dummy) facing point lock (FPL) in the point leading to the good sidings, the other works the FPL in the point leading to the runn round loop at the entrance to the station.  There is no FPL on the engine release point as per common GWR practice.  

BTW the loop needs a trap point opposite the engine release point.

 

Six red levers - one for each running signal or ground disc worked from the lever frame (2 running signals and four ground discs).

 

The trap piint from the goods sidings does not need a sand drag - that would sem to be a piece of wiki nonsense.  It i will be a single tongue trap so just a short piece of rail (no doubt St Enodoc will show you how he did it on his layout if you ask nicely but you can do it as a dummy instead of having it working).  But ideally it shoukld be included in the turnout serving the two goods sidings as that will allow the sidings to be slightly longer, as per this photo -

 

 

In the real world there will be only two handpoints - the one serving the two goods sidings and the one leading to the engine siding/shed.  Puttimn ng them at the end of a ever frame is common practice in modelling although not everyine does it that way preferring to keep handpoints separate with their own 'local' operating method.

 

I hope that makes everything clearer for you? 

[Harlequin]

51 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

BTW the loop needs a trap point opposite the engine release point.

 

 

 

Is that always the case in similar situations, Mike?

 

I thought that the engine release spur would not be considered to be passenger rated and thus would not need protection for loop to release spur movements?

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Harlequin

[The Stationmaster]

35 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

 

Is that always the case in similar situations, Mike?

 

I thought that the engine release spur would not be considered to be passenger rated and thus would not need protection for loop to release spur movements?

 

Interesting point Phil.  I think in the vast majority of cases which I know about the engine release formed a crossover so the loop waswas automatically trapped.  There is an alternative situation where the passenger line ends short of the engine release point so technically no trap is needed.   But things undoubtedly changed over the year - for example the original layout at Kingsbridge didn't have a trap in this situation (altered in 1930 and neither - as we know - did Helston until the signalling was renewed in the 1950s.

 

But on the other hand St.Ives did.  As ever a lot depends on what is going on on the loop and in this case it is used for shunting to access the paper mill siding so there is a greater risk present - as was taken into account at both Kingsbridge and Helston when the signalling was updated.

[Halton Boy]

Hello Mike and Phil

I will amend the station plan tonight and post it for approval.

Peco make the catch point SL-785BH which does operate.

Should Barry fit this or would this lead to him derailing an engine by mistake.

Could he operate it off the same lever in his signal frame as the point to the yard and paint the lever blue over black.

Could the point lever that operates the Y point to the run round/platform and the Y point on the loop that forms the crossover be painted blue over black.

This would save the cost of two blue levers.

 

Barry has been on facetime today and has told me that the print works is now The Cleve Valley Yogurt Farm. Cleve Valley Natural Yogurt's!

Barry has purchased some milk tankers on e bay.

Thank you so much for your help. I think that we are nearly there now.

 

[Harlequin]

Going back to platform width (don't all groan like that):

 

I notice that the signal box now spans the entire width of the platform and that's not right. There must be some platform surface left for passengers to safely get on and off trains - ideally the regulation 6ft.

 

The little signal box model you posted a picture of looks great. Can I ask how big it is, width by length of the base?

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Harlequin

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

Going back to platform width (don't all groan like that):

 

I notice that the signal box now spans the entire width of the platform and that's not right. There must be some platform surface left for passengers to safely get on and off trains - ideally the regulation 6ft.

 

The little signal box model you posted a picture of looks great. Can I ask how big it is, width by length of the base?

 

Good point.  It shouldn't really be on the platform in any case as in the real world  it would have been much cheaper to put it somewhere else (and that's before the clearance problem comes into it).

 

1 hour ago, Halton Boy said:

Hello Mike and Phil

I will amend the station plan tonight and post it for approval.

Peco make the catch point SL-785BH which does operate.

Should Barry fit this or would this lead to him derailing an engine by mistake.

Could he operate it off the same lever in his signal frame as the point to the yard and paint the lever blue over black.

Could the point lever that operates the Y point to the run round/platform and the Y point on the loop that forms the crossover be painted blue over black.

This would save the cost of two blue levers.

 

Barry has been on facetime today and has told me that the print works is now The Cleve Valley Yogurt Farm. Cleve Valley Natural Yogurt's!

Barry has purchased some milk tankers on e bay.

Thank you so much for your help. I think that we are nearly there now.

 

I can't understand why you keep on about blue levers - sorry but I explained what they are for so one would be nothing to do with the trap point.   Incidentally the number of levers I gave was to aid in sizing the signal box so you would be very unlikely to include any blue levers in the lever frame - however it is done - that works the model although some folk f do include them. In any case, one or two exceptions apart, blue over back levers were quite rare on the GWR.  

 

Peco do indeed make a catch point (the correct one would be SL784BH as you need a right hand one, not a left hand one).  But by using the alternative I suggested all you need is a couple of piececs of rail filed down rail to make a dummy version so saving c.£30 and allowing a slightly less cramped yard.

 

You can use a single lever to work both ends of a crssover or point and trap depending on the way you arrange your electrics and teh type pf point mtpr you are using.

 

Were there are large yoghurt factories n Brtain in the period in whoch the layout is set?  Railserved dairy is more than likely but yoghurt seems a bit out of that time - I don't think it entered the wider UK market until the 1960s

[Halton Boy]

Hello Mike and Phil

The Yogurt farm was Barry's little joke, he was eating Yeo Valley Yogurt when he purchased the milk tankers.

Yeo Valley are at Blagdon which is not far from Clevedon.

 

I am sorry that I have not explained how the layout will be controlled.

It will be DCC using DCC Concepts Colbalt point motors and Colbalt S signal levers mounted in a separate enclosure attached to the edge of the base board. The signal levers come as single items or in packs of six.

That is why it is important to get the lever frame correct.

The two signal posts will be by Dapol and they will be operated from the Colbalt S signal levers.

All the ground signals will be dummies.

Barry is keen to have the SL784BH RH trap point by Peco so he can link it to point 1P on the layout plan.

When point 1P is set to the platform the trap point will open. When 1P is set to the yard the trap point will close.

 

I have done a plan of the signalling: 

There is one thing that I am not clear about. 

Mike I think you said that point 2P and point 3P were linked.

Why is point 4P not linked to point 2P.

A passenger train is coming into the station; point 1P is set for the station, point 2P is set for the platform. What about point 4P, if it was set to the loop then the engine would derail if it went into the head shunt.

Because it is only a model the engine would have to use the head shunt to fit the carriages in to the platform space.

I understand that when the engine runs round using the loop then point 2P and point 3P must be set for the loop.

I understand that a train from the dairy into the loop must be protected from the main line.

I am sorry to be so thick.

 

There are six points on the layout and one trap point making a total of seven.

There are two signals.

Point 1P and the trap point are linked on one lever.

Point 2P and point 3P are linked on one lever.

To operate the model layout I think Barry will need seven Colbalt S signal levers. and seven point motors.

 

Below is a picture of the signal box Peco LK709  with the size. Peco LK710 interior is also available.

Barry can paint the lever frame in the interior to match the real world.

 

Thank you for your patience and you help.

 

[Ray H]

7 levers is the correct model. I think you're confusing yourself because of the high lever count on the drawing,

 

1P and the trap point are worked by one lever both on the model and (they would be in) reality. Likewise with points 2P & 3P

 

4P and the two points hand worked (in reality) all need separate levers.

 

I don't believe that you need point motors for the signals as I believe the Dapol ones come ready to connect to the lever.

 

The DCC Concepts levers have two built-in On/Off switches. You could use one of those switches to provide a circuit that won't let the home signal clear if either points 1P or 2P aren't set for the platform (and the starting signal is at danger). You could do something similar for the starting signal but that requires more switches or relays.

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, Halton Boy said:

Hello Mike and Phil

The Yogurt farm was Barry's little joke, he was eating Yeo Valley Yogurt when he purchased the milk tankers.

Yeo Valley are at Blagdon which is not far from Clevedon.

 

I am sorry that I have not explained how the layout will be controlled.

It will be DCC using DCC Concepts Colbalt point motors and Colbalt S signal levers mounted in a separate enclosure attached to the edge of the base board. The signal levers come as single items or in packs of six.

That is why it is important to get the lever frame correct.

The two signal posts will be by Dapol and they will be operated from the Colbalt S signal levers.

All the ground signals will be dummies.

Barry is keen to have the SL784BH RH trap point by Peco so he can link it to point 1P on the layout plan.

When point 1P is set to the platform the trap point will open. When 1P is set to the yard the trap point will close.

 

I have done a plan of the signalling: 

There is one thing that I am not clear about. 

Mike I think you said that point 2P and point 3P were linked.

Why is point 4P not linked to point 2P.

A passenger train is coming into the station; point 1P is set for the station, point 2P is set for the platform. What about point 4P, if it was set to the loop then the engine would derail if it went into the head shunt.

Because it is only a model the engine would have to use the head shunt to fit the carriages in to the platform space.

I understand that when the engine runs round using the loop then point 2P and point 3P must be set for the loop.

I understand that a train from the dairy into the loop must be protected from the main line.

I am sorry to be so thick.

 

There are six points on the layout and one trap point making a total of seven.

There are two signals.

Point 1P and the trap point are linked on one lever.

Point 2P and point 3P are linked on one lever.

To operate the model layout I think Barry will need seven Colbalt S signal levers. and seven point motors.

 

Below is a picture of the signal box Peco LK709  with the size. Peco LK710 interior is also available.

Barry can paint the lever frame in the interior to match the real world.

 

Thank you for your patience and you help.

 

Right let's have a sort out on the levers.  As you have decided to provide FPL levers I will work on that basis and you need to rearrange the numbering of levers as follows -

1,2,3 as you have them (2 will relate to the uppermost disc, 3 to the lower disc)

4 to be blue,  FPL for  lever 5 (point 1P only)

5 Black to operate point 1 P and the trap point TP

6 to be red to operate ground disc at TP from goods sidings to main line

7 to be blue FPL for  lever 7 (point 2P only)

8 to be black to operate Points 2P and 3P 

9 to be red to operate ground disc at 3P from run round loop to main line.

10 to operate point 4P

11 to operate the platform starting signal

(12 and 13 to work the two handpoints)

 

But note that in reality you don't really need those FPL levers on amodel 0 they're only really of any use for interlocking (between levers) purposes because you won't have working FPLs

 

The order in which levers are worked has to be as follows -

For an arriving train pull 4, 7, and 1 in that order. (if there is any sort of electrical interlocking between lever functions 4 will prevent Point 1P moving, 7 will prevent point 2P moving and 1 will prevent lever 10, Points 4 P from moving.  Also Lever 11 needs to be at normal and levers 5 and 8 need to be at normal

 

For a train departing from the platform pull lever 11.  That should , if there is any sort of interlocking between lever functions 11 will prevent points 1P, 2P and 4P from moving as well as preventing lever 1 from moving.

 

I'll ignore the interlocking/control of other function from now on (but see further down in the post)

 For shunt movement from the main line to the goods sidings pull levers 5, 4 and 2 in that order. (pulling 4 would not be required on some older) real lever frames

Good siding to main line pull levers 5 and 6 in that order

For shunt movement to runround loop pull levers 8, 7. 9 in that order. (Pulling 8 would not be required on some older real lever frames

Run round loop to main line pull levers 8 and 9 in that order

To release an engine to run round in the platform line pull lever 10.

Note that if normall (i.e. full size railway) interlocking s provided on a lever frame pulling lever No.10 shouldl lock at normal lever No. 8 as it sets a conflicting route.

 

The DCC Concepts levers don't allow any sort of interlocking between the levers - not that it is a problem - you are dealing with a model railway, not the real world.  However because of the various switching cintacts within the levers (and possibly with teh addition of a few relays??) you can provide a sort of interlocking between the functions worked by the levers.  So for example the signal worked by lever No.1 won;'t go to clear unless Levers  4 and 7 have been operated and levers 5, 8 and 10 are in their nrmal position.  It really is a decision about how deeply you want to get involved in this sort of thing and the overwj helming majority of modellers often seem to encounter getting signals in the correct position let alone providing any interlocking of any sort between them and each other or between them and the position of points/.  Personally for a layout like this for a relative newcomer(?) to the hobby I wouldn't bother and would just be careful if taking photos.

 

As far as the engine of an arriving train running round is cincerned the train has to fit between the fouling points at points 2P and 4P.  I.e. there has to be sufficient room at both of those points for an engine running round to get past the train it has just brought into the station.  if there isn't that much room then the engine can't run round and everything comes to a halt.

 

The more I think about and soem of the movements which will take place the more I think the run round loop should be extended to end level with the platform line stop blocks and have a release crossover instead of just a point.  By extending the loop it will give more headroom to shunt the dairy siding without the chance of the shunt colliding with a train standing in the platform.

Edited January 19, 2023 by The Stationmaster

[Halton Boy]

Thank you Mike.

I will read through what you have said.

I will ask Barry if he can add to the length of the layout just a small amount to ensure the run round loop works correctly.

This is Barry's first layout.

 

On a different note I have just purchased a book; An Atlas of the Railways in South West and Central Southern England by Stuart Malthouse published by Crecy.co.uk.  The published price is £40.00 and I got new from Naval & Military Press for £14.65.

I will look out for more Railway Atlases and track layout books.

[Harlequin]

I don't think you need to extend the layout or the loop.

 

Mike is suggesting extending the loop line parallel with the platform line, not the platform line itself and not the baseboards. And the reason he's suggesting that is to give more headroom to shunt the dairy because the loop is so short the way you've drawn it, BUT...

 

You can make the loop more usable by moving turnouts to their furthest extents. That might mean losing the coal and water spur but it's a matter of priorities - it's more important that the loop works.

 

Then the loop will be long enough to shunt the dairy and long enough to run round the expected train length.

 

The simple engine release spur, as it stands, without a parallel extension to the loop, allows the platform line to be angled into the corner and make the maximum use of the baseboard space. So, extending the loop line would affect that and have knock-on consequences throughout the design.

 

To fit the layout into the space available some compromises are needed - you can't have it all!

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Harlequin