Can anyone ID this 16T mineral wagon ?

[locomad2]

I've acquired a few 16T 00 mineral wagons over the years but recently discovered this Kit or Manufactured 16T wagon. It's been fitted with link coupling quite fine 00 wheels metal base, modelled on the early type of 16T just after WW2, I suspect its quite old

 

Hand brake missing

 

 

Base looks like clear plastic

 

Body held by 4 screws 

 

 

Any ideas ?

[33C]

i had a few of these in the past. They were unpainted clear plastic/acetate. I think they were supplied by CGW? and were designed to fit on the Trackmaster chassis?

[bmb5dnp1]

Hello,

    Could it be a REX kit ? They had clear perspex sides with cast chassis. They turn up quite often on eBay.

 

Dave

Edited January 19, 2023 by bmb5dnp1
Correction

[D51]

This is an ERG Rex wagon kit with Rex BRMSB wheels.  These kits were manufactured by the McMurdo Instrument Company and wholesaled by ERG (Bournemouth).  They were originally marketed as "Masterpiece" parts being supplied in boxes of sides or ends etc, then sold as "Masterpiece"Kits.  This would be about 1949.  At this time they were sold with very fine spoked wheels with metal treads and plastic centres, and the kits were quite expensive for the time, about 9/- without couplings.

 

Later, in the 1950s, the kits were supplied with Rex wheels and ERG couplings.  The Rex wheels, as on this example, were not so free running and tended to gather a lot of dirt on the treads.  Now known as Rex kits, the price was reduced to 3/6d. per kit, sometimes 2/6d.

 

The design of the kits was done by McMurdo, and particularly the chassis design was criticised at the time.  E Rankine Gray who founded ERG responded that it would be too expensive to modify the design of the moulds.  McMurdo was, and still is, a manufacturer of radio and electronic components, and this was its attempt to enter the model railway market about the same time as Graham Farish and Sayers Chaplin.  They had the capability of large scale manufacture of mazac castings and plastic mouldings.

Frank

[locomad2]

Thank you everyone for the replys really appreciate your input, yes quite a bit of dirt on the wheels suspect peco foam underlay from a previous owners layout. Link coupling look a lot newer,  I've similar on early K's cast metal kits, wagon attached to it  is a K's cardboard base with instructions underneath.

 

Chassis is crude and missing brake links etc, wheels run quite free.

 

Link coupling is to stay I've quite a few and used close to the edge of layout  and a few locos only fitted as such, as long as buffers all correct height it's quite fun operating wagons, grandchildren love them too

[roythebus1]

Nice to see the vintage stuff still being used.

[Il Grifone]

The early wheels are quite decent with a thick tyre and plastic spoked centre. Later wheels are a solid plastic (Bakelite?) and rather inferior. Brake levers are usually missing (dropped as a price reduction measure?) and the rest of brake gear was left to the modeller to provide.

Realism is not their best feature, but some are better than others.

Besides this steel wagon, there are 3 varieties of van (allegedly goods, meat and fish though I have never worked out which is which) a tank wagon, high and low opens.,cattle truck, bolster wagon and brake van.

The 3 link couplings are rtaher overscale and the spring is too strong to actually do anymore than hold the coupling in place. (I use one between the couplings linked with wire.)

They appear to have disappeared by the end of the fifties.

K's wagon and coach kits never considered a floor (or instructions) to be a necessary feature.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Il Grifone

[locomad2]

1 hour ago, Il Grifone said:

 

K's wagon and coach kits never considered a floor (or instructions) to be a necessary feature.

 

Always though K's used part of there instructions as the floor  for their wagon range 

 

I built a few of these some 50 years ago so could be wrong prehaps part of something else. 

 

Also of interest a Graham Fraish 16T mineral die-cast 

 

Note the brake handle, extra or part of the original model ?

 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by locomad2
Picture up side down

[Il Grifone]

None of the various K's kits I've acquired over the years (some I even bought new!) had instructions or floors. Squareness of the completed vehicle often left something to be desired - in particular the GWR 20T mineral wagon.

Those instructions look like they belong to something else. There were some K's narrow gauge kits, but IIRC they were fo 3 foot gauge prototypes (Southwold? I have/had an open wagon somewhere). I don't recall anything 009 from them. Their range was quite extensive and I might be wrong on this.

 

The GF wagons sometimes have that crude brake lever, but I don't think they all had it. In any case, it's usually missing on the survivors.

They did that steel mineral, a wooden one. a goods van, brake van, bolster and low sided wagons in zinc alloy and later switched to plastic for the bodies. The earlier ones often suffer from zinc pest. Early coaches (especially the Pullmans) invariably suffer from from the plastic warping and the diecast floors and bogies frequently expand/warp/crack as well.

The wagons can be found in grey, bauxite, and dark brown, though AFAIK the brake van only came in bauxite.

All of the above suffer from reluctance for the wheels to revolve and benefit from fitting pin-point bearings. I think the Farish coupling should have the loop piece straight, but they are frequently bent down as in the above example, probably in an attempt to get them to couple to other makes. The few I had in my youth got Peco couplings to couple with my Hornby Dublo stock. I recall paying 4/6d each for 2 of the Formo version of the Farish van. The addition of 1/6d for the Peco couplings and 9d for the K's coupling adapter made for expensive wagons. Disappointingly their running left a lot to be desired due to the awful wheels. The one piece tinplate coupling/internal wheel bearing unit was not really a brilliant

idea.

Sorry for eventual typing errors. A black cat (Chloë) curled up asleep on my right arm does not help!

 

EDIT:

Whiskers (large size long hair tabby) came* and plonked himself on my left arm as soon as I shut the laptop down!

*As in launched himself from the armchair opposite - a leap of a couple of metres!

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Il Grifone

[D51]

The floor of the K's wagon here is the instruction card for an ERG L.S.W. 10T open wagon.  Early K's wagons were so simple they didn't need instructions.  They just needed a prayer for the 'Pafra' adhesive to hold the thing together!

 

Frank

[Il Grifone]

I used balsa cement and Durofix without success. I then tried Woolworth's cold solder which lasted a bit longer. Soldering turned out to be the answer.

Later kits were plastic which still seems reluctant to stay together (unless you need/want to dismantle of course).

Edited January 21, 2023 by Il Grifone

[locomad2]

On 21/01/2023 at 11:03, D51 said:

The floor of the K's wagon here is the instruction card for an ERG L.S.W. 10T open wagon.  Early K's wagons were so simple they didn't need instructions.  They just needed a prayer for the 'Pafra' adhesive to hold the thing together!

 

Frank

 

Thanks so it's possible I built some ERG wagons about 45 - 50 years ago thinking they were K's, at the time I used Bostick No 1 similar to UHU now, they have held together well and survived some 4 layouts. 

[Il Grifone]

AFAIK the only ERG wagons were the kits referred to above and the printed card parts - best described as a scratch building aid!

Whitemetal kits were initially available from K's and Will's*. Later on some other superior makes arrived on the scene to disappear again before the end of the century (?).

* The latter had a range of about four models. IIRC a gas tank wagon of unspecified origins (The box showed M&GN lettering), rail cleaning wagon (later available assembled) - the prototypes were adapted from SECR ballast wagons*, a LTSR 4 wheel bullion van (very much a niche model*) and a GWR shunter's truck (the most useful though Trix produced an R-T-R version - in acetate.... 9/6d IIRC)

*I bought one of these many years ago assembled and painted as a 3 plank open in SECR livery, but AFAIK they were service vehicles. I  missed out on a bullion van kit at the Rayleigh fair a few years ago. Stupidly I didn'ta  snap it up when I saw it and when I went back it had gone! :( (I suppose it was it's home territory - the prototype would have passed the site of our house - long before it was built of course (1976).

Edited January 23, 2023 by Il Grifone

[41516]

1 hour ago, Il Grifone said:

Will's*.

* The latter had a range of about four models. IIRC a gas tank wagon of unspecified origins (The box showed M&GN lettering), rail cleaning wagon (later available assembled) - the prototypes were adapted from SECR ballast wagons*, a LTSR 4 wheel bullion van (very much a niche model*) and a GWR shunter's truck

 

Most still available through SE Finecast.

[Il Grifone]

Thanks! I wasn't aware the kits were still available. I also forgot some. IIRC the APOC twin oil tank was the first one. Mine is due for a refit....

 

They seem to have followed my 1/- = £1 inflation rule* and then some. IIRC the gas cylinder wagon was 9/6d when I bought mine (see above - this applies to most of my early efforts). Wills  kits were always dearer than K's (justified by better quality IMHO).

The Bullion Van would have been a bargain at £5!

 

* Now updated from 50s to 60s!

Edited January 24, 2023 by Il Grifone

[locomad2]

On 23/01/2023 at 10:05, 41516 said:

 

Most still available through SE Finecast.

 

Thanks looked at the current range and I know I've FW001 3 and 7.

 

The track cleaning wagon I have shown before, I know it came out before the "famous" and rare Hornby Dublo version, it uses similar size "fag" buds which I have discovered are no longer available as current fags ends are slightly narrower, fortunately I now make my own using cotton wool. The current Wills track cleaning wagon is not as fluid tight as a fake Hornby Dublo version I acquired some 30 years ago, but still works using meths or IPA

[locomad2]

Anyone help with this one, bit younger might be, looks very much like a airfix kit 16T but it's not,  body slightly different it's the brown on on the right

 

 

 

The wheels look  like lima but body is definitely a kit 4 sides 

[bmb5dnp1]

1 minute ago, locomad2 said:

Anyone help with this one, bit younger might be, looks very much like a airfix kit 16T but it's not,  body slightly different it's the brown on on the right

 

 

 

The wheels look  like lima but body is definitely a kit 4 sides 

 

I think it's a Parkside (now Peco) kit.

 

           Dave

[41516]

1 hour ago, bmb5dnp1 said:

I think it's a Parkside (now Peco) kit.

 

Yes, looks like Parkside PC19 - Is the wheelbase 10ft?  (although the ones I have had have had a plain floor without the ribs on the bottom)

 

PC19 was a rare 'miss' for Parkside, issued with a 16'6" chassis but a 10ft wb. All of the 16'6" minerals should have a 9ft wb, the only ones with 10ft were other 17'6" chassis (Palbrick, etc) recycled with new bodies to match.

Edited January 26, 2023 by 41516
spelling

[locomad2]

5 hours ago, 41516 said:

 

Yes, looks like Parkside PC19 - Is the wheelbase 10ft?  (although the ones I have had have had a plain floor without the ribs on the bottom)

 

PC19 was a rare 'miss' for Parkside, issued with a 16'6" chassis but a 10ft wb. All of the 16'6" minerals should have a 9ft wb, the only ones with 10ft were other 17'6" chassis (Palbrick, etc) recycled with new bodies to match.

Yes it's a peco PC19, didn't notice the 10ft wheelbase

 

Despite their age still can't match a well made Airfix 16T kit

[Il Grifone]

Yes the Airfix/Dapol kit is my first choice for a 'standard' 1/108 mineral*. The various pips and recesses inside need to go (the sides are a bit thick) and the brake gear needs serious revision - It should be Morton brake with one set of brake shoes only. As modelled, pressing the brake lever down would take the brakes off! Those door hinges could do with attention too, though this means loss of the opening side door feature.

The detachable load is handy but needs covering with the real thing for the best effect. It would have been better if they had moulded it with even humps - it needs a bit of cut and shut

I'll try and post some pics of mine.

*Other diagrams are covered by Parkside and Comet and R-T-R, though I did make a 1/106 by removing the top door many years ago. (IIRC wagon no. 136 in my catalogue which has now got to 455! - each vehicle has its own catalogue number in various lists to keep track of them all.)

Edited May 9, 2023 by Il Grifone

[5050]

There were a couple of Rex/McMurdo kits for sale on a trade stand at Leeds Exhibition recently.  A van and an open, both unmade and in relatively pristine boxes.  I considered buying them and intended going back to the stand to do so but life got in the way..............

 

I think a clubmate bought them instead so they've been 'saved'.

Edited February 15, 2023 by 5050

[Il Grifone]

I bought a job lot of coach bogie sideframes/wagon axleguards on eBay recently. Most were GWR and therefore useful! 🙂

Amongst the dross, there were two ERG wagon solebar/axleguard units....

I'm loathe to bin them, but....

Edited February 15, 2023 by Il Grifone