Bachmann 4CEP - 4BEP Question

[Blobrick]

I happened to be unpacking a Green SYWP  Bachmann 4CEP earlier today, and saw the additional end gangway door that's provided to allow the owner to alter head code blinds if they choose. The thought struck me that since the newer Bachmann 4BEP is basically a 4CEP with a buffet car, the motor coaches must be the same as the original issue 4CEPs? If that is the case then the plain green end doors on the 4BEP could be replaced with the spare end door with SYWP from the 4CEP, giving you a post 1962 model? 

Can anyone confirm this or have l missed something?

 

 

Cheers 

Bob C

[frobisher]

Quite possibly, but I've got this nagging feeling about bogie replacements occurring early on with some Phase 1 units...

 

Ah, yup - looks like the MK4 bogies under the restaurant car were replaced with Commonwealth bogies 1960ish in the prototype and Phase 1 units.  But apart from that, you should be fine.

 

Blood and Custard - 4 BEP & 4 CEP

[Phatbob]

You'll need to swap the whistle on the cab front for a pair of air horns.  Also, the first class bit requires the yellow designation stripe and the buffet car the red designation stripe as these were already in use by the time CEPs and BEPs recived the SYP.
Image copyright Colour Rail.  NOT mine!

 

[robertcwp]

6 minutes ago, Phatbob said:

You'll need to swap the whistle on the cab front for a pair of air horns.  Also, the first class bit requires the yellow designation stripe and the buffet car the red designation stripe as these were already in use by the time CEPs and BEPs recived the SYP.
Image copyright Colour Rail.  NOT mine!

 

Not necessary to change the whistle for horns. Some Phase I Beps and Ceps retained whistles after they received yellow panels. A late 1960s Ian Allan abc has a photo of a GSYP Bep with whistle but I cannot recall the number.

 

I thought of doing a similar forward dating of a green Bep but the buffet car bogies are the awkward bit. It might be possible to fit normal Commonwealths or cut the side frames off and put CW ones on instead.

[Blobrick]

Thanks gents, it seems that the bogies could be an issue then. Most likely why Bachmann chose the earlier time frame for the Green version, I knew it was to good to be true. I m going to check again on the "Blood and Custard" web site to see what info it has on bogies

 

Bob C

[Phatbob]

43 minutes ago, Blobrick said:

Thanks gents, it seems that the bogies could be an issue then. Most likely why Bachmann chose the earlier time frame for the Green version, I knew it was to good to be true. I m going to check again on the "Blood and Custard" web site to see what info it has on bogies

 

Bob C

Kit for a pair of commonwealth bogies for two quid (+P&P) from Replica.  Handy if you do go for a "cut and shut" on the existing bogies.

http://www.replicarailways.co.uk/mainsep1/menuaccess

 

[Blobrick]

42 minutes ago, Phatbob said:

Kit for a pair of commonwealth bogies for two quid (+P&P) from Replica.  Handy if you do go for a "cut and shut" on the existing bogies.

http://www.replicarailways.co.uk/mainsep1/menuaccess

 

Ahh that sounds an interesting suggestion, well worth a look, many thanks

 

that's got me wondering if its possible to obtain the correct bogies from Bachmann, as fitted to the later Blue/Grey version? 

 

Bob C

Edited February 7, 2023 by Blobrick

[JSpencer]

10 hours ago, Blobrick said:

Ahh that sounds an interesting suggestion, well worth a look, many thanks

 

that's got me wondering if its possible to obtain the correct bogies from Bachmann, as fitted to the later Blue/Grey version? 

 

Bob C

 

You could always contact the Bachmann spares department and ask. Sometimes they have them to sell, sometimes not. Sometimes we see models broken up and sold as bits on Ebay, though I would be surprised if someone did this with a 4 car unit.

 

One thing to note, Bachmann tooled up the entire BEP rather than re-using the tools for 3 of the cars from the CEP (maybe to avoid a logistics nightmare in sharing tools between models). Physically though they seem to be identical.

Edited February 8, 2023 by JSpencer

[Blobrick]

59 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

You could always contact the Bachmann spares department and ask. Sometimes they have them to sell, sometimes not. Sometimes we see models broken up and sold as bits on Ebay, though I would be surprised if someone did this with a 4 car unit.

 

One thing to note, Bachmann tooled up the entire BEP rather than re-using the tools for 3 of the cars from the CEP (maybe to avoid a logistics nightmare in sharing tools between models). Physically though they seem to be identical.

I ve just gone through Bachmann's spares web site and found this item listed for both 31-490 Green version, and 31-491 Blue/Grey versions .  Is this the correct Commonwealth version? It seems to be only fitted to the Blue/Grey versions according to photos l found  on the web

Edited February 8, 2023 by Blobrick

[Phatbob]

7 minutes ago, Blobrick said:

I ve just gone through Bachmann's spares web site and found this item listed for both 31-490 Green version, and 31-491 Blue/Grey versions .  Is this the correct Commonwealth version? It seems to be only fitted to the Blue/Grey versions according to photos l found  on the web

Yep!  That's the one.  Good find. 🙂

 

[Blobrick]

6 minutes ago, Phatbob said:

Yep!  That's the one.  Good find. 🙂

 

Thanks for the conformation FP!

Well that's that problem sorted then, so that leaves finding a 4BEP in Green livery without UIC markings (Red and Yellow head bands) around 1966

 

Cheers Bob C

[Phatbob]

32 minutes ago, Blobrick said:

Thanks for the conformation FP!

Well that's that problem sorted then, so that leaves finding a 4BEP in Green livery without UIC markings (Red and Yellow head bands) around 1966

 

Cheers Bob C

If you can't find such a speciment, I used these on mine https://hmrs.org.uk/br-coach-lining-up-to-including-blue-grey-period.html

I find Pressfix easier to use for lining than waterslide transfers as having the backing paer on the top keeps them nice and straight.  HTH.

[Blobrick]

1 minute ago, Phatbob said:

If you can't find such a speciment, I used these on mine https://hmrs.org.uk/br-coach-lining-up-to-including-blue-grey-period.html

I find Pressfix easier to use for lining than waterslide transfers as having the backing paer on the top keeps them nice and straight.  HTH.

 

Thanks PB, l think that will be the fall back position, if no suitable examples can be found.

It now rests on finding the best priced example, which seem to be a well know shop in Sheffield currently, and being able to swop the centre doors over. I ve read somewhere that the power cars of the 4BEP are actually new tooling and not based on the previous 4CEP model?

 

Bob C

[Phatbob]

Just now, Blobrick said:

 

Thanks PB, l think that will be the fall back position, if no suitable examples can be found.

It now rests on finding the best priced example, which seem to be a well know shop in Sheffield currently, and being able to swop the centre doors over. I ve read somewhere that the power cars of the 4BEP are actually new tooling and not based on the previous 4CEP model?

 

Bob C

I've done the cab end door end swap on mine too.  Nothing to worry about.  HTH

[Blobrick]

6 minutes ago, Phatbob said:

I've done the cab end door end swap on mine too.  Nothing to worry about.  HTH

Ahh right then its feasible, gulp that means l need to buy one now!  The wife's going to kill me

[Phatbob]

22 minutes ago, Blobrick said:

 The wife's going to kill me

I'm afraid I can't help you with that one. 🤣

 

[Blobrick]

9 minutes ago, Phatbob said:

I'm afraid I can't help you with that one.

 

To Be Honest........ No One Can🤣