Marston Vale Line Woes

[Wheatley]

If the bus link can  hang on until 31/12/23 the PRM Regs might get repealed along with a lot of other inconvenient legislation and they can run what they like. 

[Bernard Lamb]

On 20/02/2023 at 09:04, Mike_Walker said:

Having known his a good friend since he was about 12, I'm well aware of Mark's career progression and the fact remains that he put a lot of effort (and still does) into promoting parts of his "empires" that he feels might otherwise be neglected and that includes encouraging user groups to the full.  Somehow, I can't imagine this debacle having been allowed to continue if he were in charge.

 

He's the "manager's manager".  As Chris Green once said: "There's probably not a TOC MD that hasn't got him on speed dial and regularly seeks his advice".

Totally OT, but seeing that you mention Chris Green and there are folks on here who worked with him.

He is still around and alive and well. I saw him not that long ago and he seemed to be quite happy with what he was doing.

My connection, as some people know, is that my wife and his wife are old friends and meet on a regular basis.

Bernard

[Mike_Walker]

15 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Totally OT, but seeing that you mention Chris Green and there are folks on here who worked with him.

He is still around and alive and well. I saw him not that long ago and he seemed to be quite happy with what he was doing.

My connection, as some people know, is that my wife and his wife are old friends and meet on a regular basis.

Bernard

But sadly, I understand he's retired from giving his excellent talks to enthusiast groups.

[Oldddudders]

7 minutes ago, Mike_Walker said:

But sadly, I understand he's retired from giving his excellent talks to enthusiast groups.

He can't be young, and even his famous energy runs out at times. He joined me on a train from Derby late one Maundy Thursday in the mid-'90s, and was positively apologetic that he was going to read Alistair McLean on the journey, as if I would judge him!

 

Seeing our heroes age is no fun. I was taken aback a couple of years ago when I saw Gordon Pettitt in a wheelchair en route to Eurostar at Gare du Nord. But if I'm 74, what age must they each be?

[BrushVeteran]

The full potential of the East West Railway's purpose seems to be being thwarted by 'operational' issues rather than the wider issues involving decisions on routes further East.

As I see it, and I am just a user living further West but on the rail link, the issue that is not going to go away, unless some physical construction work takes place, is that there is not enough stock available to run the required length diesel units between Bletchley and Bedford. When eventually the service runs right through they will be based on current 'new generation' 165/168/170/196 types which we all know are longer so this should be being planned now.  As a bus service is currently in place to cover this then why aren't the platforms being extended now to cope with the future use of longer units. We seem to spend more time 'dilly-dallying' about these days talking about the problems rather than actually addressing them.

1). We know about the problem, 230's have been tried and aren't now suitable so next solution. 

2). 23m length diesel units  cannot be used because existing platforms are too short............they have known that all along!

3). The railway line is currently shut so bring forward the plans to lengthen the platforms..........if there are any plans,........ and get on with the work whilst the public are used to bus replacements.

I like many am looking forward to travelling from where I live to Cambridge on this railway line..........as I did in the sixties. I think/am hoping I will still be around to get to Bletchley/MK by this method and Cambridge is probably just a dream, but Bedford now looks dodgy!  Come on EWR you have a potential winner here...................make some decisions!

Edited February 25, 2023 by BrushVeteran

[Chris116]

The really farcical situation is that when the line was due to be closed one of the mains reasons it was kept was that it was not possible to run a suitable bus replacement as the bus would take too long to do the journey. Fast forward to the current situation and the line has no passenger service due to the Vivarail situation and the rail authorities now consider a bus replacement is acceptable! The truth, then and now, is that the bus replacement is not fit for purpose and LNWR should be made to run the train service or made to hand over running to an organisation that is fit for purpose. 

[Oldddudders]

43 minutes ago, BrushVeteran said:

I like many am looking forward to travelling from where I live to Cambridge on this railway line..........as I did in the sixties. I think/am hoping I will still be around to get to Bletchley/MK by this method and Cambridge is probably just a dream, but Bedford now looks dodgy!  Come on EWR you have a potential winner here...................make some decisions!

Your logic is impeccable, but sadly life isn't like that. Until there is absolute certainty that Bedford - Cambridge is going ahead, i.e. a zillion nimby etc issues have been put to bed, no-one is going to commit funds to upgrading passenger services on the Marston Vale. I suspect the ghost of Swanbourne sits on the shoulder of every player in this game, and it is a very effective reminder, causing planning blight. 

[The Stationmaster]

On 22/02/2023 at 19:28, Wheatley said:

If the bus link can  hang on until 31/12/23 the PRM Regs might get repealed along with a lot of other inconvenient legislation and they can run what they like. 

Plenty of pressure groups around to block any repeal of the PRM Regulations.  In fact in typical UK govt and Civil Service manner any change to them would motre than likely make them even more proscriptive than the EU version.

[Wheatley]

I hope so Mike. I don't doubt that will be the case if the competent part of the civil service that actually does the work are left to get on with it, it's the elected layer of chancers and failed management trainees above that which worries me. 

[Michael Hodgson]

On 23/02/2023 at 19:15, Bernard Lamb said:

Totally OT, but seeing that you mention Chris Green and there are folks on here who worked with him.

 

I remember him.  He's the bloke who turned the Home Counties into a red light district.

[VIA185]

It's the good old British 'disease' - for every one person who wants to do something there are three looking for ways NOT to do it. T'was ever thus.

 

[Chris116]

56 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I remember him.  He's the bloke who turned the Home Counties into a red light district.

The lights weren't red, just the posts and all the seats!

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, Chris116 said:

The lights weren't red, just the posts and all the seats!

And the bins.

[The Stationmaster]

22 hours ago, Chris116 said:

The lights weren't red, just the posts and all the seats!

 

21 hours ago, rodent279 said:

And the bins.

Yes - definitely far too much red paint splashed around on stations where red would be visible to Drivers of approaching trains.  Definitely one of the less than bright ideas when it came to the 'Fairground South East' corporate image.

[Oldddudders]

23 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I remember him.  He's the bloke who turned the Home Counties into a red light district.

And, implausibly for a railwayman, was Evening Standard Man of the Year for his efforts. He was happy to have the trophy on show in his office. 

[Pete the Elaner]

On 25/02/2023 at 11:43, Chris116 said:

The really farcical situation is that when the line was due to be closed one of the mains reasons it was kept was that it was not possible to run a suitable bus replacement as the bus would take too long to do the journey. Fast forward to the current situation and the line has no passenger service due to the Vivarail situation and the rail authorities now consider a bus replacement is acceptable! The truth, then and now, is that the bus replacement is not fit for purpose and LNWR should be made to run the train service or made to hand over running to an organisation that is fit for purpose. 

 

A friend of mine used the line when replacement buses were in use on half the line only. He said that one day the train was late but the bus still left on time, even though it was empty because the connecting train had not arrived.

 

This is the mentality we are dealing with.

[Pete the Elaner]

On 22/02/2023 at 19:28, Wheatley said:

If the bus link can  hang on until 31/12/23 the PRM Regs might get repealed along with a lot of other inconvenient legislation and they can run what they like. 

 

Just a question...Do the replacement buses meet the same PRM compliance as the trains are required to?

[Pete the Elaner]

On 19/02/2023 at 10:38, adb968008 said:

At risk of being controversial…

 

but is there any point in running a train service if the demand is so peripheral and the bus is doing fine ?

 

How much bedford to bletchley demand is there ?

 

is it just railways for railways sake ?

 

That is the argument a ToC will put forward, but ...

 

Services will be better used if they are regular. When I last looked, the Marston Vale line had services running at roughly 70 minutes intervals, so these could not possibly be the same minutes past each hour. This is not very useful.

If they could be made for example, xx:16, then this is easy to remember & encourage more people to use it.

[Bucoops]

10 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

A friend of mine used the line when replacement buses were in use on half the line only. He said that one day the train was late but the bus still left on time, even though it was empty because the connecting train had not arrived.

 

This is the mentality we are dealing with.

 

Not quite the same, but when a mate and i had been to the Chappel Beer Festival, they had neglected to tell the platform staff at Marks Tey, or they had forgotten, that there were extra trains on the Sudbury branch to bring the punters back.

 

Said platform staff let the last train to London go just as we were pulling in.

 

Fortunately, beer festival types, despite being highly tanked up, are a generally jovial lot and were quite patient whilst previously mentioned platform staff was rather hurriedly arranging taxis! Wonder what the cost for it was.

[Wheatley]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

Just a question...Do the replacement buses meet the same PRM compliance as the trains are required to?

If they're using service buses yes, all PSVs have been compliant for a while now. Coaches are not yet required to comply but it depends what the TOC has specced. Some require PRM-compliant vehicles, usually double deckers as you need fewer of them, some of the long distance operators require coaches to match the standard of accommodation on the train. All are required to have a PRM-compliant option even if its an accessible taxi as and when required. 

 

ORR were consulting on requiring all RR buses to be compliant but I don't know how far that got. 

[jjb1970]

My memory of the line is announcers at Euston telling people travelling to Milton Keynes to go to St Pancras and take the train to Bedford and change for Bletchley. I made that mistake once, after which I realised the most sensible approach to an interruption at Euston was to go off and do something in London for a few hours and hope things started running again in time to get home.

[Oldddudders]

On 26/02/2023 at 18:03, Pete the Elaner said:

 

A friend of mine used the line when replacement buses were in use on half the line only. He said that one day the train was late but the bus still left on time, even though it was empty because the connecting train had not arrived.

 

This is the mentality we are dealing with.

I suggest that is more about the nature of the contract with the bus operator, and their instructions to the bus driver. If he/she has been told to leave at a particular time, off they will go. The railway does not pay their wages direct. 

[Oldddudders]

Something over 50 years ago, I was night turn on Control Area 4. My Area 1 colleague, Ken, didn't drive, and used to catch the bus from Lindfield into Haywards Heath for his train to Croydon. This particular evening he saw the bus leaving - early. Stepping into a phone box (remember them?) he rang the bus garage and asked them the time. they agreed with him the bus had left early - and they would send it back, which they did. On joining the bus, he was asked for his 2p fare, but Ken said he'd spent that on the phone call, so that was that! 

 

I liked Ken, and learnt from him.

[rodent279]

9 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Something over 50 years ago, I was night turn on Control Area 4. My Area 1 colleague, Ken, didn't drive, and used to catch the bus from Lindfield into Haywards Heath for his train to Croydon. This particular evening he saw the bus leaving - early. Stepping into a phone box (remember them?) he rang the bus garage and asked them the time. they agreed with him the bus had left early - and they would send it back, which they did. On joining the bus, he was asked for his 2p fare, but Ken said he'd spent that on the phone call, so that was that! 

 

I liked Ken, and learnt from him.

How did they contact the driver? 2-way radio, as per taxis?

[Oldddudders]

10 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

How did they contact the driver? 2-way radio, as per taxis?

Not then! He got to the garage and was sent back again. He was in no position to argue!