The Great Model Railway Giveaway - Part 2

[Phil Parker]

 

Time to give away another layout.

 

Of course, when I say "layout", I mean "layout project".

 

This time it's "Maiman Sidings" - a OO gauge Inglenook shunting project. Fitting into a plastic box, it's very portable and would be perfect for someone with limited space for a model railway.  All it needs is a fiddle yard, legs, wiring and stock. OK, there is a bit of wiring, but if you want point motors, you are on your own. Being a generous person, I did cut operating slots for the pins when I built the layout. You can thank me later.

 

To bag the model, send me an email - phil.parker@warnersgroup.co.uk - explaining how you see the layout developing. I'll then read through the mails, and pick the one that sounds most interesting. This shouldn't be too difficult a project, but you will need some modelling skills. We're not looking for hard-luck stories because I don't want to lumber anyone with a project they don't stand a chance of completing. I don't want to see the layout thrown away, I can do that, it needs to find a good home.

 

If you are that good home, you have until 13th March to get in touch.

 

Oh, and we aren't delivering. You will need to pick the model up from the BRM stand at the London Festival of Railway Modelling. We'll put it back in its box, but you have to carry it to your car. To be honest, it's so small, you'll get it on the shuttle bus, and could probably take it home on the tube! (We'd love to see photos of that)

 

Then you take the model away. In a year or so, we'll get back in touch and see how the project is going, with the potential of a feature in BRM and possibly an invite to one of our shows.

 

So, over to you. We need someone to take this away on. Please.

[JamFjord]

With Ally Pally just around the corner, I've been holding off from asking on here about the GMRG Part 2 layout - it's taken a lot of willpower, I can tell ya!

 

This is already a lovely layout to take on as a project, loads and loads of potential. Probably the perfect layout to give away at Ally Pally too with that virtually indestructible plastic box, as the winner could maybe even take that away on the train replacement bus. I won't be entering of course (for obvious reasons), but I'm looking forward to seeing what whoever wins this plans to do. Good luck to everyone chucking their proverbial hat in the ring.

 

Also, well done to the BRM team on the oscar-winning production values

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Ah, the No. 11 Birmingham Outer Circle Bus Route - as much of a classic in its own right as the Inglenook Shunting Puzzle!  
 

Is the rest of the BRM layout stash hidden behind the black curtains?  Just wondered, Keith.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Phil Parker]

47 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Is the rest of the BRM layout stash hidden behind the black curtains?  Just wondered, Keith.

 

Sadly, most of it is in a storage container near me. And I want some of the space back!

[Huw Griffiths]

Have you checked the email address in the video? (I know - "details - details - details".)

 

 

Going back to the real topic of this thread - I'm not planning on entering.

 

Nothing personal - and nothing wrong with this microlayout - it actually looks rather good.

 

 

However, you've already hinted at some issues which mean that there'd be no point in me entering:

• In time, I'd like to build my own portable switching layout - I don't want to rip up perfectly good trackwork to make way for my own, rather different, concept.
   
• Right now, I don't even have space to build my own layout (never mind taking over one that's already been built).

It's a shame - but I need to be realistic - that's just the way it is.

 

 

However, this doesn't stop me thinking about what I might have been tempted to do with a layout like this one - to get people thinking of their own ideas - and I'm not really thinking about scenery.

 

The built-in overhead lighting probably rules out "hand from the sky" uncoupling - so I reckon that some form of remote uncoupling might be a good idea. Might we be looking at Kadee couplers, with a number of magnets (or even electromagnets) concealed at strategic positions, in or under the track?

 

Apart from this, it might be fun to add lights to the backdrop buildings (or rather inside them) - perhaps also yard lighting (which might be freestanding or possibly even fixed to the buildings) - extra points if some of these lights could be "homebrew".

 

Would we also want lights built into some of the road vehicles? If we do, would these involve very small, prewired LEDs (like you might find in some decorative lighting sets, sold in certain discount shops and occasionally supermarkets) - or would we be looking at "fibre optics" (or clear, "shock leader" fishing line, 1 - 2 mm in diameter) fed by LEDS under the baseboard?

 

As a member of MERG, I'm also aware that this layout offers loads of scope for layout animations and electronics.

 

In fact, there's plenty of scope for lots of stuff.

 

 

I don't know everything that could be added to this layout - I don't need to know - and I'm not trying, against all odds, to con(vince) anyone into believing that I've got the best ideas. Actually, there wouldn't be much point, when I know I haven't.

 

Even if I were after the layout, I'd have no way of collecting it - no car - not expecting much in the way of trains on the Saturday - and, on the Sunday, trains from round here wouldn't allow me to get there early enough to make it worth my while.

 

 

But seriously, I'm sure that somebody will be in a position to make use of this layout. For the right person, it's an excellent start - potentially the genesis of a great project - and, in time, it'll be interesting to look through my eyes and see what somebody makes of it ... .

 

[ess1uk]

Looks like a great layout 

[Phil Parker]

14 hours ago, Huw Griffiths said:

Have you checked the email address in the video? (I know - "details - details - details".)

 

Good point Huw - it should be phil.parker@warnersgroup.co.uk

 

I'll change the video, but the editing package seems to have lost the sequence, so I'll need to start from scratch 😡

[AY Mod]

23 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

the editing package seems to have lost the sequence, so I'll need to start from scratch 😡

 

Use the rendered file and slap another filled text box over that bit.

[Huw Griffiths]

10 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

I'll change the video, but the editing package seems to have lost the sequence, so I'll need to start from scratch 😡

 

Sorry about the hassle - like you, I didn't want anyone sending entries to the wrong email address.

 

As for issues with video editing packages, I've heard of enough people having "fun" (and losing lots of time) doing videos for MERG SIGs (Special Interest Groups).

 

Actually, one of their SIGs I'm involved with has a brief which includes producing videos ... .

 

A few well placed posts, spelling out the correct email address, would probably do the job.

 

 

Anyway, returning to the layout, it'll be a great start for the right person / people - I look forward to reading what they do with it.

 

[Phil Parker]

26 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Use the rendered file and slap another filled text box over that bit.

 

That's what I've done. Video is just uploading now. And Adobe software is rubbish.

 

Edit: New video now in place. Adobe software is still rubbish.

[Huw Griffiths]

8 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

That's what I've done. Video is just uploading now. And Adobe software is rubbish.

 

Edit: New video now in place. Adobe software is still rubbish.

 

... and expensive - especially since they insist on people renting it (as opposed to getting a copy they can keep).

[Phil Parker]

I've just realised I  haven't set a closing date. It is:

 

10am Tuesday 14th March.

[Huw Griffiths]

2 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

I've just realised I  haven't set a closing date. It is:

 

10am Tuesday 14th March.

 

"Details, details, details ... ."

 

[Phil Parker]

Well, we have a winner, and all being well, the layout will be heading to its new home on Sunday.

 

Thanks to all those who entered, there were several very interesting projects, but I've only one layout to give away. Hopefully, some of these projects will still see the light of day - and if they do, we'll be pleased to bring you details.

[JamFjord]

9 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

Well, we have a winner, and all being well, the layout will be heading to its new home on Sunday.

 

Congratulations to whoever won! 

  

9 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

Thanks to all those who entered, there were several very interesting projects, but I've only one layout to give away. Hopefully, some of these projects will still see the light of day - and if they do, we'll be pleased to bring you details.

 

This is almost as exciting as seeing what the winner comes up with - Maiman Sidings is built on a standard-sized baseboard that anyone can order, no woodworking skills needed, and the track is laid to a fairly standard configuration that is known to work and serves a purpose. It's a foundation that is easily replicable yet still leaves limitless scope to tailor the scenery and scenario. If this competition inspires just one additional person to use that foundation to create a new layout that brings them (and others) some enjoyment, that's pretty exciting in my opinion.

[stewartingram]

As one of the unlucky ones, I too congratulate the winner. I'm now even contemplating starting from scratch with the suggestion I put in, we shall see. Is there a layout thread of the original layout that I could refer to for reference?
Stewart

[Phil Parker]

Well, it's gone.

 

 

Andrew Hicks has set himself quite a challenge with his entry:

 

The project is to completely automate – 100% - the shunting puzzle. It has to run from start to finish without being touched. That includes driving the trains, coupling and uncoupling, and fully solving the problem using microcontrollers and based on randomized inputs from a random selection of wagons and locos (ie something that is totally beyond JMRI). The solution has to include identifying error situations – eg uncoupling failure – and automatically correcting them if possible before reporting a fault to a human operator. Locos will have to run at scale speeds, with realistic acceleration and deceleration, and follow prototypical shunting rules – eg 5mph until 2’ from the vehicle to be collected then creep forward until buffers ‘kiss’ – with minimal movement of the collected vehicles. The puzzle solution has to be efficient (points lost for wasteful moves) – otherwise one could solve it by going through every permutation of wagon arrangement until the right one appears. Any wagon or loco touching a buffer would result in failure.

 

But, with his collegues in MERG behind him, I'm hopeful that next year, at Ally Pally, we will see the layout back, and working without human intervention. That's going to be eye-catching!

 

Andrew has promised to keep us updated via BRM, so watch this space.

 

Thanks again to everyone who entered. I spoke to a couple at the show, and it seems that some of the projects will go ahead anyway, which is brilliant news.

[JamFjord]

Well, that certainly didn't disappoint! I'm very excited to see how this idea comes together. Also, I'm happy to see that at least two of the three layouts given away will heavily feature MERG hardware, as I've already committed to use MERG kits to control operations on 'The Art Of Compromise' (although nothing as sophisticated as what Andrew has in mind!) - but this degree of automation is a very interesting proposition to me. I'd already pondered the idea of whether it would be possible to automate a shunting puzzle, but I'm happy to leave the actual job of putting that into practice to Andrew.

 

Also great to hear that this competition has inspired others entrants to forge ahead with their layouts too.

[Huw Griffiths]

Definitely the right call.

 

Knowing Andrew, I've got a good idea what to expect.

 

For people who don't know, Andrew is Vice Chair of MERG - runs a group introducing schoolchildren to model railways and electronics - and does a lot of experimenting with electronics based layout animations and other model railway enhancements. (Some of his experiments could be seen on the MERG stand at the show.)

 

He also runs MERG's "E101" special interest group - which is mainly about creating interesting, easy to understand, journal and video content about electronics in a model railway context.

 

I know he's set himself an ambitious target with this project - but I'm confident that, over time, he'll solve all or most of the challenges involved.

 

Some of this stuff can be solved using electronics modules (MERG or otherwise) or adapting / programming various microcontrollers to do identifiable tasks (please don't ask me to explain this stuff). Strategically positioned sensors etc would also help here.

 

Other stuff will involve working out new solutions to challenges - this takes longer - exactly how long varies, so please don't ask anyone to guess.

 

 

I look forward to seeing what happens with this - and I don't think I'll be disappointed.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Huw Griffiths

[hicksan]

Brilliant or bonkers? Not sure which.

 

Thanks for the kind words, all of you. And thank you Phil for a lovely layout to use as a test bed for a degree of automation never previously attempted successfully and, in my opinion, only made possible by technology that has appeared really within the last year.

 

I am proposing to do 'proper' automation - as opposed to scheduled train running - and by 'proper' I mean shunting based on inputs that are not previously determined. This cannot be solved by just running a script: it has to figure out what to do first.

 

To achieve this we need three things:

(1) the right hardware - meaning practical solutions to physical problems - such as reliable uncoupling and how to determine the position of the train such that the correct wagons aligns to the correct uncoupling magnet, plus how to identify which wagon is which and where after every shunting move.

(2) a layout control bus capable of sending rich data messages between the sensors and the processor. Most LCBs are limited to transmitting on/off states. Full automation requires vehicle data. I plan to use CBUS because an event message on CBUS can include up to three bytes of data, but there are other possibilities using wireless data networks.

(3) a processor capable of running dynamic interpreted scripts (as opposed to compiled programs), and where the scripts can be nested so one can run others. This is possible with the Raspberry Pi PICO RP2040, which was only released last year, and where the code is commonly written in MicroPython - as taught in schools. Courtesy of MERG member Duncan Greenwood; we now already have a shield that will connect a PICO to CBUS and a library that allows MicroPython to talk to CBUS, including driving trains. If I succeed in this it will be by standing on the shoulders of giants.

 

There are no guarantees that my attempt will be successful, but this is something that now can happen and so inevitably will - because this technology means someone eventually will succeed even if I don't. And I would rather not be beaten to the post by code written by a school child or a bot like ChatGPT. It is nearly two hundred years since the Rainhill Trials proved that steam railways were a viable proposition. Full automation has long been a Holy Grail for the model railway community. I believe a solution is now in sight and it is just a race to see who gets there first. Maiman Sidings is merely the first step that will lay the foundations and open the floodgates.

 

And I plan to use my MERG exhibition lanyard badge as the handheld wifi controller to start it.

[Phil Parker]

9 hours ago, hicksan said:

Brilliant or bonkers? Not sure which.

 

Me neither - which is why I'm pleased to see someone else have a go! 😁

[woodenhead]

16 hours ago, Huw Griffiths said:

Some of this stuff can be solved using electronics modules (MERG or otherwise) or adapting / programming various microcontrollers to do identifiable tasks (please don't ask me to explain this stuff). Strategically positioned sensors etc would also help here.

 

My eyes did read that last sentence as "Strategically positioned pensioners etc would also help here".

 

I do worry about my eye/brain interface sometimes, but using pensioners would offer interesting employment opportunities in the 'getting the over 50s back to work conundrum'.

 

A question to @hicksan will the wagons to be shunted be required to be positioned over specific sensors at set spots on the layout or is there some other method of identifying all the wagons spotted at the start without relying on something under the track?   I guess I am considering how an intelligently automated inglenook with standard wagon lengths might evolve to a layout less uniform with both short and longer wheelbase wagons in the mix that may not fit positioned sensors.  Or is it simply a case of a lot of sensors capable of deducing the centre of a wagon and therefore it's length?

 

Secondly, might you consider making your couplings servo or magnetically assisted in some way so that they are not reliant on under track magnets to operate, again so your automation rests more in the real world that a wagon may not always be left in the exact same position albeit in the right order.

 

I'll end by saying I have no idea how you are going to achieve your aims, the automation side of modelling is not something I have dabbled in.  It does sound though like a very interesting proposal and worthy of receiving the giveaway which should also see MERG given some focus in the future in BRM when you come back with what you've done.

 

To me

 

[Huw Griffiths]

18 hours ago, Huw Griffiths said:

Some of this stuff can be solved using electronics modules (MERG or otherwise) or adapting / programming various microcontrollers to do identifiable tasks (please don't ask me to explain this stuff). Strategically positioned sensors etc would also help here.

 

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

My eyes did read that last sentence as "Strategically positioned pensioners etc would also help here".

 

I do worry about my eye/brain interface sometimes, but using pensioners would offer interesting employment opportunities in the 'getting the over 50s back to work conundrum'.

 

Interesting points.

 

Instead of saying "sensors", I guess I could have said "transponders". Well I could - but I would not, for a related reason. I often "speed read" - when passages of text have said "transponders", I've occasionally misread this as "train spotters" - complete with mental images, which might or might not be relevant.

 

 

I don't want to go into detail here - but, the other month, some innocent comments I posted in an unrelated thread were misread by a few people. Fireworks followed - and the fallout led to me questioning my future in this hobby. Nobody wanted this to happen - and linking to the thread in question would help nobody.

 

Why am I mentioning this? Well, some people might have noticed that I edit a lot of my forum posts - I often revisit them to see if I could have reworded them more clearly. I know this might sound strange to some people - but I'm usually terrified of saying anything wrong or out of place ... .

 

Anyway, let's return to this thread.

 

 

Last night, Andrew, James (who won the first layout) and myself were involved in a MERG Zoom call on a different topic - and plans for the layouts featured in conversation.

 

I don't pretend to fully understand a lot of the stuff - but, like a lot of engineering projects, it revolves around combining lots of elements that are already known to work separately. This "getting elements to work together" malarkey is often a particularly challenging aspect of engineering - and this project doesn't look like being an exception.

 

Also, if you present the same project to a number of engineers, you might well get a number of different potential solutions. This sometimes causes issues with "legacy" projects, when engineers who weren't originally involved need to work on them - first of all, they might also need to work out what the original designer was thinking ... .

 

 

Anyway, I personally wouldn't know where to start with a project like this - but last night I heard talk of different variants of RFID. All I know is that the project is unlikely to be straightforward ... .

 

 

[woodenhead]

46 minutes ago, Huw Griffiths said:

 

 

Interesting points.

 

Instead of saying "sensors", I guess I could have said "transponders". Well I could - but I would not, for a related reason. I often "speed read" - when passages of text have said "transponders", I've occasionally misread this as "train spotters" - complete with mental images, which might or might not be relevant.

 

 

I don't want to go into detail here - but, the other month, some innocent comments I posted in an unrelated thread were misread by a few people. Fireworks followed - and the fallout led to me questioning my future in this hobby. Nobody wanted this to happen - and linking to the thread in question would help nobody.

 

Why am I mentioning this? Well, some people might have noticed that I edit a lot of my forum posts - I often revisit them to see if I could have reworded them more clearly. I know this might sound strange to some people - but I'm usually terrified of saying anything wrong or out of place ... .

 

Anyway, let's return to this thread.

 

 

Last night, Andrew, James (who won the first layout) and myself were involved in a MERG Zoom call on a different topic - and plans for the layouts featured in conversation.

 

I don't pretend to fully understand a lot of the stuff - but, like a lot of engineering projects, it revolves around combining lots of elements that are already known to work separately. This "getting elements to work together" malarkey is often a particularly challenging aspect of engineering - and this project doesn't look like being an exception.

 

Also, if you present the same project to a number of engineers, you might well get a number of different potential solutions. This sometimes causes issues with "legacy" projects, when engineers who weren't originally involved need to work on them - first of all, they might also need to work out what the original designer was thinking ... .

 

 

Anyway, I personally wouldn't know where to start with a project like this - but last night I heard talk of different variants of RFID. All I know is that the project is unlikely to be straightforward ... .

 

 

Don't worry you are not alone in rewording posts when you realise what you've written either reads wrong, has odd words included that weren't meant to be there or simply completely omitted.

 

I did wonder about RFID technology, but I don't know enough about how it works and how that could be put into a model railway control setting - but it's amazing when you take something unused back to M&S without a receipt and they can tell you from the RFID when and where you bought it, before informing you, no refund it's over 30 days.

[Huw Griffiths]

In Cwmbran, any talk of M&S would be closer to 4 years ago. Yes - they opened up the upstairs floor of their Cwmbran branch - then, a few years later, decided that the shop wasn't making enough profit.

 

Well - they could always have tried selling stuff people wanted to buy at sensible prices - but I guess that might not have been quite as much fun ... .

 

 

Changing the subject, last night's "E101" Zoom call was every bit as interesting and enjoyable as I've come to expect. Saying that, I'm not convinced that I actually add anything useful to proceedings ... .