Endeavour

[daltonparva]

I don't know if it's been mentioned on here, but John Thaw's daughter's character is Dorothea Frazil. Frazil is a form of ice, therefore:-

D. Frazil = De-ice = Thaw.

A magic touch from the writer.

[stewartingram]

4 hours ago, alastairq said:

Aaah, Foyle's War..one of my all time favorite detective series. Michael Kitchen plays a blinder in this.

 

Vera is another favorite.....as well as the newer Van der Valk...

 

But then, I'll also watch Poirot in preference to trash like football, etc.

There's also Beck, and the Bridge....

You haven't mentioned that (awful) American trivia 'Murder She Wrote' An atrocious program with a nosey old biddy who knows everything - and as for the intro music....

[alastairq]

10 hours ago, stewartingram said:

You haven't mentioned that (awful) American trivia 'Murder She Wrote'

 

Are you surprised? :) :)

[nigb55009]

What about Maigret, with Rowan Atkinson in the lead role. It seems a little strange to see him in a straight role,

but he was brilliant. 

[New Haven Neil]

Spender?

[Barry Ten]

I thought that was a magnificent conclusion, simply unbeatable. What a fine piece of television.

[unravelled]

Re the gunshot. I haven't gone back to count shots in the earlier scene, but was he disposing of the one last round? 

 

 

Dave

 

[43110andyb]

On 12/03/2023 at 13:53, 43110andyb said:

Having watched all the ‘Morse’ related series I was hoping to see a few nods to the originals (this isn’t a criticism as I have loved the Endevour outings).
     A few spring to mind- the character of Mc Nutt  (Masonic Mysteries) and his current Jag 248 RPA. 

   There are many more of course and Probably all good reasons they weren’t such as time lines etc -if I was to try and work it out.

Well I almost got both of my questions answered! McNutt was mentioned as a possible future placement for Endeavour by Bright and the Jag appearing in the end  scene!

[ejstubbs]

On 17/03/2023 at 10:04, unravelled said:

Re the gunshot. I haven't gone back to count shots in the earlier scene, but was he disposing of the one last round? 

 

I've just checked: Morse took a live round from his jacket pocket and placed it in the empty cylinder, closed the gun and spun the cylinder a la Russian roulette.

 

I suppose it might have been that Thursday just gave him the one live round and he wanted to get rid of it, or maybe Thursday handed the gun over empty and Morse 'just happened' to have the round in his pocket (why?), but I'm sure an intelligent chap like him could have come up with a better and safer way to dispose of an unwanted live round than that e.g. handing it in at his workplace as something he found by chance while walking alongside the river.  I also don't see why he would have spun the cylinder if he actually intended to fire the round.

 

If he had put the round in intending to play Russian roulette, but then changed his mind, he could just have ejected the round - no need to fire it.

 

An explanation that makes a bit more sense for me (though still not a lot) is that he wasn't intending to play true Russian roulette, but he wanted to know whether, if he had been pointing the gun at his own head, it would have been fatal.  I still struggle to come up with a reason for that, though.

 

I do wonder whether it might have been intended to be a call-back to an episode earlier in the series: either a round going missing, or someone (George Fancy?) being shot and Morse feeling it would/could/might have been intended for himself.

 

All in all I found it, and still find it, a disappointingly unsatisfactory scene in what was otherwise an excellent final episode.  (I even liked the fantasy scene with Joan at the wedding, which a lot of other commenters don't seem to have done.)

 

I don't recall Morse having access to a revolver during the original series with John Thaw.  Come to think, I'm not sure recall him carrying a gun at any time during Endeavour, apart from at the shoot-out at the end of series 6.  and I don't believe he actually fired it even then (contrary to what it says in Wikipedia, it was obviously DCI Box* who shot DS Jago - every other online source seems to agree, and in the close-up on Morse immediately after the shorts are fired you can clearly see that the hammer on his gun is still in the cocked position, so it hadn't been fired).  So maybe he just wanted to find out how it felt to fire a gun - but that still wouldn't explain spinning the cylinder first.

 

* That Wiki article also gets his rank wrong 🙄

Edited March 18, 2023 by ejstubbs

[ejstubbs]

Further to my earlier post:

 

 

it appears that Russell Lewis has stated that the conductor of the choir at Blenheim was not him.  Shame, because it seemed to make sense (and certainly more sense than the rather puzzling 'russian roulette' scene).

 

[KeithMacdonald]

On 17/03/2023 at 18:08, ejstubbs said:

All in all I found it, and still find it, a disappointingly unsatisfactory scene in what was otherwise an excellent final episode.

Agreed

 

On 17/03/2023 at 18:08, ejstubbs said:

 So maybe he just wanted to find out how it felt to fire a gun - but that still wouldn't explain spinning the cylinder first.

 

That reminds me - part of Morse's back story is that after leaving Oxford he joined the Army (as a cipher clerk in the Signal Corps). So we'd expect his miltary training to have given him firearms experience, which compounds the unsatisfactory feeling.

[tomparryharry]

I thought Morse was ex-National Service in the beginning, so he would have had some firearms experience during basic training. Given the circumstances, I would expect Thursday to actually retain the pistol against future use, however caused.

 

Although the Endeavour episodes are completed, I would certainly expect a 'way in'  in the event of a spin off situation being commissioned. 

[Fat Controller]

27 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Agreed

 

 

That reminds me - part of Morse's back story is that after leaving Oxford he joined the Army (as a cipher clerk in the Signal Corps). So we'd expect his miltary training to have given him firearms experience, which compounds the unsatisfactory feeling.

Weren't his family Quakers? In which case might he be excused firearms training, if he possessed other skills the military might be desperate for? 

[exet1095]

2 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Weren't his family Quakers? In which case might he be excused firearms training, if he possessed other skills the military might be desperate for? 

Only Padres are excused weapons training. (In fact, they are forbidden from handling them). Quakers could be conscientious objectors, but once in, you are in, and you do as you are ordered. Basic training will have involved skill at arms almost every day; one thing that has not changed since the Army was first raised.

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, exet1095 said:

6 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

 

Only Padres are excused weapons training. (In fact, they are forbidden from handling them)

 

I wonder if this is rooted in the medieval rule that clergymen were not allowed to carry or use edged or pointed weapons, leading to Bishop Odo, William the Bastard's cousin, riding around the field at Hastings enthusiastically clubbing hapless Saxon infantry to death.  Very ecclesiastical...

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, exet1095 said:

Basic training will have involved skill at arms almost every day; one thing that has not changed since the Army was first raised.

 

And before that, assuming you count Cromwell's 'New Model' army as the first professional force in UK history.  Prior to that there were privately hired men-at-arms and in medieval times serfs and others had an obligation to fight for their lord, who was obligated to fight for the king unless he was off on crusade, so 'basic training' in weapons and tactics was widespread and common.  Most ordinary folk prior to the creation of the NMA would have been conversant with basic military training and weapons.  The insistence of giving serfs and yeomen time off from other duties for archery practice is well known, and came in after the first period of the 100 years war, during which the Black Prince very successfully employed Welsh archers from the upland areas of Glamorgan and Gwent as mercenaries.  The English needed more of these and trained their own men up, resulting in the famous opening scene from 'Henry V'. 

 

The creation of a professional standing army usually co-incides with the prohibition of weapons other than those that can pass as tools to the general populace, and can be see as a retrograde step in the development of indivdual rights and freedoms.  I was once arguing against the posession of guns with a gun-head in my workplace, and he came up with the interesting comment that guns should not only be legal, but compulsory for all adults along with training in their procficient use, as is already the case for adult males in Switzerland, which has no standing army*.  This, he pointed out, would act as a crime deterrent, any prospective criminal being liable to be shot on sight while engaged in criminal activity (Hungerford and Dunblane would have turned out differently), and limit government power (though not completely, not much use bringing a handgun to a tank battle).  I was stumped by this, and had no response. 

 

*and you can't invade them or they'll close your bank account...

[KeithMacdonald]

6 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

Although the Endeavour episodes are completed, I would certainly expect a 'way in'  in the event of a spin off situation being commissioned. 

 

With that one-line clue that Sam is going to join the police, is it too much that there'll be a "Thursdays" sequel, with Fred and Sam on duty together? Maybe somewhere far removed from Oxford.

[43110andyb]

After living my whole life with the Morse family of series I’m a little depressed it’s now finished but very privileged to have been at an age when it began to enjoy the ride!
 I remember the first Morse episodes as a teenager in the late 80’s and following it through to the Remorseful day- Thinking then that was the end!  Lewis then came along and revitalised the brand with great success- keeping me more than happy along the way. 
   Then enter Endeavour! The icing on the cake for a die hard fan! Not sure what’s next but I intend to watch the whole of Endeavour again at some point and I’m not ashamed to say that I have watched every Morse episode again more than once over the pars few years!

[KeithMacdonald]

On 19/03/2023 at 23:42, 43110andyb said:

I have watched every Morse episode again more than once

 

I would do the same, if only I could find a free-to-view channel  that has them all.🙂

 

[tomparryharry]

having watched some older episodes, it seems Morse was SIGINT before joining the police. He alludes to that in several episodes. 

[ejstubbs]

14 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

I would do the same, if only I could find a free-to-view channel  that has them all.

 

Morse is on a more or less permanent repeat cycle on ITV3 - along with Vera, Heartbeat, Foyle's War, Agatha Christie's Marple, Poirot, Lewis, Scott & Bailey and what seems like just about every other crime-based ITV production back to the year dot including The Sweeney (for John Thaw fans) and Minder.  In fact ITV3 is now showing earlier series of Endeavour as well.  All of the aforementioned should also be available to stream on ITVX (ITV hub as was - the difference being that on ITV Hub they were ad-free, whereas on ITVX you have to pay to get rid of the ads).  STV Player also has some but not all of the aforementioned, ad-free IIRC.