A question of soldering

[kitpw]

I need to equip myself with a soldering iron for low melt solder (for white metal) and would be interested to know what RMwebbers are using for kit building/scratch building, particularly temperature controlled soldering irons.

 

I've been soldering since about 1960 so it's not a new "thing". I used to have a 12V iron which was ancient in 1960 and is now defunct. I have a couple of (newish) soldering irons for general use (40W and 80W) and a small gas torch for silver soldering. I'm thinking that a temperature controlled iron with spare bits (which are easily available as white metal soldering tips are no good for other metals) might be worth buying but there are dozens available at a wide range of cost - so where to start? Any thoughts gratefully received!

 

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by kitpw
corrections

[Citadel]

Relatively new to hobby but I went out and bought an Antex 690D soldering station.  Used it a lot and really happy with the results.  The first iron packed in after a week but they replaced it without any hassle.  Have to admit haven’t dipped my toe into white metal so don’t know whether other solutions are better for this.

[BR traction instructor]

Antex temp controlled base station and 3 x 50W irons each with a different size tip to avoid regularly changing them…excellent piece of kit.

 

BeRTIe

Edited March 11, 2023 by BR traction instructor

[Bucoops]

Haven't used it much as yet but very happy so far with my one of these as recommended on here - https://www.circuitspecialists.eu/csi-premier75w-digital-temperature-controlled-solder-station-with-75w-soldering-iron

[fulton]

I use an ANTEX soldering station similar to above, maybe an older version, normally I set it to 220 C for white metal, using Carrs Red Label flux, and low melt solder, very happy with the results, mine has a digital readout, the response up and down is very quick, great for kits with a mix of brass and white metal, have also had very good results with stainless steel etches using Carrs Brown Label flux. 

[kitpw]

Thanks all for comment and suggestions.  The white metal temperature setting in your post Fulton is very helpful:  I really had no idea whether a temp range starting at 200 degrees was going to melt everything in sight or allow satisfactory soldering on white metal! I'll take a look at Antex in the first instance: I have a small iron from them which I use for electrics and they appear to have a good range of spare and alternative tips which is useful.

[hayfield]

I had one of those 12v irons tears ago!!

 

For years I was happy with my Antex 25w irons, which I used for both normal and low melt soldering, two things I did learn was to have a spare unit and a variety of different sized tips

 

Well I decided to move into the 21st century and bought a CSI premier digital solder station and have not looked back, I have a spare hand set and a pack of 10 tips of differing shapes and sizes, I took the advice of my piers here and wind the temperature down to 300 degrees for whitemetal

 

https://www.circuitspecialists.eu/csi-premier75w-digital-temperature-controlled-solder-station-with-75w-soldering-iron

 

I have been very pleased with it, since buying it I have bought a cheap digital de-solder station. I can highly recommend both the company and unit

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403972629989?hash=item5e0ea525e5:g:s74AAOSwWmdjYj8h&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA8PTm%2BdWd6k6w4ZgVqQoA5ESuVPquhSOZn5L4%2Fk0UM9QBQH7lk5ZG5oNa%2F7tycHCctISpnShA4c3rlVbDrWRGUOi%2Biej4o3AXUtbkNufbUct%2BTGEO8rftwaFlYdY8Gv39aQ%2BuoojTpPkN8JYvqcjrHfNrAmeqXs88zeDfEUtzEzKscCf3UxMUBK1POzhDQhVk8setCHLIpY6JeLMyRuY4v13b4wgBs8197bIJaXJu4F2u%2BfYTmH9O68EGuociGSh5EV2QpMFCeX260NVc96qYLay%2B3wzCOnOTo0%2BESae5ADfjH%2BPYrO1cMcAqJvkaWYJyHg%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6rzn_XaYQ

 

  This is very useful also for building whitemetal kits

 

Might be worth thinking about buying a dual solder & de-soldering station

 

https://www.circuitspecialists.eu/csi-900-digital-desoldering-hot-air-rework-station-with-50w-soldering-iron

[kitpw]

31 minutes ago, hayfield said:

I decided to move into the 21st century

Thanks for the detailed reply. Circuit Specialists are showing "out of stock" for both items!  So no 21st century tech for me from them at the moment.  I'm in no great hurry so I'll maybe email and see if the're expecting them back in stock before too long. What prompted my question is an ABS 7mm GWR van with a mixture of white metal and brass which I haven't started on yet. The ABS range is no longer in production and the Radio Times packing inside the box is dated 1998.

[hayfield]

12 hours ago, kitpw said:

Thanks for the detailed reply. Circuit Specialists are showing "out of stock" for both items!  So no 21st century tech for me from them at the moment.  I'm in no great hurry so I'll maybe email and see if the're expecting them back in stock before too long. What prompted my question is an ABS 7mm GWR van with a mixture of white metal and brass which I haven't started on yet. The ABS range is no longer in production and the Radio Times packing inside the box is dated 1998.

 

The de-solder station can be bought off eBay for about £25 and I would only buy a double unit if I could see an additional benefit in doing so. It seems very strange that there is quite a drought in machines available both from CSI and also on Amazon. I would give CSI a call as it may be that at the moment the cheaper end of the market has for the time being ended. And newer stock when it arrives will be dearer

 

Whilst a tenner dearer  this looks to be good value

https://www.circuitspecialists.eu/bk-3000-multipro-blackjack-solderwerks-75w-professional-digital-solder-station

 

If you do buy a station do also get a set of differing tips, plus and additional hand unit, firstly as a back up secondly as you can do a quick change between tip sizes

[Chas Levin]

Hello, they're not cheap but I'd recommend Weller temperature controlled irons - they seem to have discontinued the exact one I have but they're all the same build quality (exrtremely high, German engineering etc) so whichever version you can find and which suits your pocket would do the job I'd say. Totally reliable, beautifully built, interchangeable tips etc...

I worked in the Service Dept of an audio company for some years, where they were soldering 8 hours a day and often incredibly small, detailed work on very expensive kit where accuracy and reliability (both in terms of temperature stability and long-term robustness) were essential and they all used them which is where I first tried them.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Chas Levin

[kitpw]

1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

Weller temperature controlled irons

Thanks Chas for the recommendation. I have an ancient Weller iron which I've used for larger assembly/fabrication and it's certainly proved its worth in terms of longevity.  The 40W iron I have is a Draper item, maybe 10 years old, used for smaller stuff and I also inherited a 25W iron of unkown make from my father which is used for electronics and small parts.  It's only recently that I've got into using different temperature solders which is what raised the question of a temperature controlled iron - I'll take another look at the Weller unit as I'm getting to the point where I will need to assemble some white metal castings.

 

 

[Bucoops]

On 11/03/2023 at 20:44, Bucoops said:

Haven't used it much as yet but very happy so far with my one of these as recommended on here - https://www.circuitspecialists.eu/csi-premier75w-digital-temperature-controlled-solder-station-with-75w-soldering-iron

 

As this thread has reached the top again and I've used my unit a few times now I can comment more. Simply it's very, very good, especially considering the price. As @Chas Levin says, Weller are the pro's choice - I used to work for a company that built soldering robots and when hand soldering was required, only Weller would do) but this CC one is really good value for money.

 

I do however need to try a larger tip on thicker etches (7mm kits) as they really suck the heat away, however I still mostly use my RSU which laughs in the face of thicker etches!

 

 

[hayfield]

8 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

As this thread has reached the top again and I've used my unit a few times now I can comment more. Simply it's very, very good, especially considering the price. As @Chas Levin says, Weller are the pro's choice - I used to work for a company that built soldering robots and when hand soldering was required, only Weller would do) but this CC one is really good value for money.

 

I do however need to try a larger tip on thicker etches (7mm kits) as they really suck the heat away, however I still mostly use my RSU which laughs in the face of thicker etches!

 

 

 

 

I bought one of these a couple of years ago and would not be without it, I have a second hand unit with a larger tip, firstly incase one developes a fault and secondly for a quick chand if a different size tip is required

 

I also bought a set of 10 different size and style tips, great value and as you have said sometimes you need a larger tip

 

I now have a temperature controlled de-solder station, cheap as chips but a great buy where larger areas need heating

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234991874742?hash=item36b69b72b6:g:XT4AAOSwDglkSIzZ&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4LzL8IOh4DwScHl55vItZlEtExCk2DNYIa8Ebnhlbcpnl4aSyRC5o7z2Te2VtXn1ryZoAk6bJ40wTpzM70E251R7ow9gq8VekqAHu4bngFpVXBOHZ2lwIVKbUn%2FYOFtAanEu%2BFGimKoaRdQC%2Br6lR2MQg7hP9hzAvdnvWFF7OEu7nbf2mhogRhAaN5vWfMCRY9gZcFMCVzuB86%2FyDxrGAWJIxf8288juz%2FLS7%2Bxza6mFaK5Dg1uJnfcALm2Bh2LKitjDqGcsN2GSi20fmr4xLYCoREgM3p1G7P0Q%2FPL0vnFF|tkp%3ABk9SR8C2lLmMYg

 

I would also suggest buying a selection of different melting point solders and different fluxes, both of these make life easier

[Chas Levin]

11 hours ago, kitpw said:

Thanks Chas for the recommendation. I have an ancient Weller iron which I've used for larger assembly/fabrication and it's certainly proved its worth in terms of longevity.  The 40W iron I have is a Draper item, maybe 10 years old, used for smaller stuff and I also inherited a 25W iron of unkown make from my father which is used for electronics and small parts.  It's only recently that I've got into using different temperature solders which is what raised the question of a temperature controlled iron - I'll take another look at the Weller unit as I'm getting to the point where I will need to assemble some white metal castings.

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

As this thread has reached the top again and I've used my unit a few times now I can comment more. Simply it's very, very good, especially considering the price. As @Chas Levin says, Weller are the pro's choice - I used to work for a company that built soldering robots and when hand soldering was required, only Weller would do) but this CC one is really good value for money.

 

I do however need to try a larger tip on thicker etches (7mm kits) as they really suck the heat away, however I still mostly use my RSU which laughs in the face of thicker etches!

 

 

 

Re. tip size - relevant to both your comments gents - the Weller irons have an excellent system whereby the shaft holding the tip is hollow and you unscrew and pop a different size in, the work of a moment.

Tips go down to 0.2mm form memory, easily small enough for the finest work, but as @Bucoops says in regard to larger etches, even thin 4mm ones will absorb most of what a tip that small puts out and I find that the 'K' tip (1.2mm) is the best compromise most of the time between being small enough for fine work but large enough to transfer heat decently.

 

@Bucoops - Rich, soldering robots? Sounds exciting: was it?

[Bucoops]

5 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

 

 

 

@Bucoops - Rich, soldering robots? Sounds exciting: was it?

 

On the surface, yes. When you actuallbroke it down into sub assemblies it was just glorified meccano!

 

http://www.firstplacemachinery.com/firstplace_smt_pcb_selective_pillarhouseruby2.html

[Chas Levin]

20 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

On the surface, yes. When you actuallbroke it down into sub assemblies it was just glorified meccano!

 

http://www.firstplacemachinery.com/firstplace_smt_pcb_selective_pillarhouseruby2.html

Wow: I see what you mean, but nevertheless, that looks like pretty exciting meccano to me.

 

Mind you, it's that thing where something you're familiar with becomes very everyday but to others it can still seem exciting... I deal with audio equipment, recording studios etc in my day job and sometimes with celebs, but when they're off-stage and annoyed about a piece of studio kit malfunctioning they look like any other bad-tempered middle aged bloke with an attitude problem!

Sorry @kitpw - gone a bit OT here!

[Bucoops]

5 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

Wow: I see what you mean, but nevertheless, that looks like pretty exciting meccano to me.

 

Mind you, it's that thing where something you're familiar with becomes very everyday but to others it can still seem exciting... I deal with audio equipment, recording studios etc in my day job and sometimes with celebs, but when they're off-stage and annoyed about a piece of studio kit malfunctioning they look like any other bad-tempered middle aged bloke with an attitude problem!

Sorry @kitpw - gone a bit OT here!

 

I bet they do!

 

It boils down to move the PCB to an X-Y co-ord, then dip it down to a Z co-ord which plonks the component into the solder flow. Most mass produced PCBs are soldered by "wave" soldering machines - the whole board gets kind of a jet of solder over it and it adheres to the components/pads. The stuff I worked on was "selective" soldering where individual components are targeted after placement once the wave but is done. The faster and more accurate it could work, the more it could be sold for. Most of the clients were automotive suppliers - dashboard PCBs etc. Ancillary machines like board pre-heaters and selective fluxing were also produced.

 

Another range was skeining machines. Wasn't involved in them and I still don't really get what they did apart from twist wire. 

 

I went from the development department where we built and modified new designs (aka bodging) to the design department where I was tasked with designing a new standalone modular machine. Except getting the required spec out of those that should know was the proverbial blood from a stone. So I essentially spent 18 months designing car parts before they noticed I wasn't achieving anything and made me redundant 😆

[polybear]

14 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Hello, they're not cheap but I'd recommend Weller temperature controlled irons - they seem to have discontinued the exact one I have but they're all the same build quality (exrtremely high, German engineering etc) so whichever version you can find and which suits your pocket would do the job I'd say. Totally reliable, beautifully built, interchangeable tips etc...

I worked in the Service Dept of an audio company for some years, where they were soldering 8 hours a day and often incredibly small, detailed work on very expensive kit where accuracy and reliability (both in terms of temperature stability and long-term robustness) were essential and they all used them which is where I first tried them.

 

I agree that Weller are very nice - but the last time I looked the price of replacement bits scared me somewhat.

[Chas Levin]

6 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

I agree that Weller are very nice - but the last time I looked the price of replacement bits scared me somewhat.

Yes, I can't disagree with that.

 

Mind you, it has made me learn to keep soldering bits in good condition for as long as possible, wetting the bit and cleaning in brass wool tip cleaner after every joint and never powering down the iron until the bit's looking healthy and shiny.

 

Which is quite a useful thing in itself 🙂

[kitpw]

11 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

gone a bit OT here!

...maybe, but we learn a lot about a lot of things that way!  

 

Thanks all for all the info. I've been soldering stuff for many years but only in the last few months delved into some of the more exotic aspects of the art/tech.  My most recent excursion has been 700 deg solder paste which is a great deal easier than the traditional silver solder in wire form:  when I place it on a joint, it sticks where balancing a tiny piece of solid nearly aways fell off. 

 

10 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

the price of replacement bits scared me somewhat.

That's a good point and also @Chas Levin's cleaning regime which I try to follow (I don't always remember tho').

 

Kit PW

Edited May 29, 2023 by kitpw

[sagaguy]

Just bought myself a London Road Models resistance soldering unit.As my 0 gauge brass builds get bigger,the need more heat than my 100w temp controlled can deliver.I`ve still got the loco to build.

 

                           Ray

[Bucoops]

3 hours ago, sagaguy said:

Just bought myself a London Road Models resistance soldering unit.As my 0 gauge brass builds get bigger,the need more heat than my 100w temp controlled can deliver.I`ve still got the loco to build.

 

                           Ray

 

Well worth having :)

[doilum]

8 hours ago, sagaguy said:

Just bought myself a London Road Models resistance soldering unit.As my 0 gauge brass builds get bigger,the need more heat than my 100w temp controlled can deliver.I`ve still got the loco to build.

 

                           Ray

You will not regret it. I bought mine in the mid 90s after reading the review in the MRJ. After twenty years of abuse it finally gave up and following a conversation at York was repaired for little more than the cost of the postage.

And one of the many projects on it's CV was a big WD.

Edited May 29, 2023 by doilum

[spamcan61]

11 hours ago, polybear said:

 

I agree that Weller are very nice - but the last time I looked the price of replacement bits scared me somewhat.

Over the last 40 odd years in my day job I've only ever used Weller and Metcal irons, but I couldn't personally justify the cost for occasional hobby use.

[kitpw]

29 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Metcal irons, but I couldn't personally justify the cost for occasional hobby use.

I looked up Metcal - I can see what you mean... and why I'd never heard of them before!