BR Engineer's wagon liveries - ca 1974-76

[Alex TM]

Hi everyone,

 

I am looking to model the above timeframe.  I am also aware that there would have been samples of wagons in black, gulf red, and olive in service with the engineer's fleet.  What I wish to know, though, is the following:

 

In the period 1974-76 what would have been the rough proportions of each engineer's department livery in use?

 

Thanks in advance for any help with this.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[Steven B]

Gulf red wasn't common.

Olive green was applied from 1967 so would be most common by the mid 1970s.

 

Personally, I'd go for a well weathered mix of olive green with about 1/3 in black.

(David Rostance on Flickr)

 

(Paul Townsend on Flickr)

(John Woolley on Flickr)

 

 

You can also add in some bauxite liveried wagons for extra variety:

(David Rostance on Flickr)

 

 

Steven B.

[hmrspaul]

Very difficult question. Olive green is pre blue era - 1963 to correct earlier entry.

 

Do you mean pukka engineers wagons or the motley collection used by the engineers. In the period you mention large numbers of ex revenue wagons were condemned and then switched to engineers use - every  medfit seems to have gone to them during the late 1960s for example https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmedfitsteel. By the time I was getting back into wagoning in 1975 Hitchin was stuffed with ex shock opens, again not repainted. Repainting any of the ex revenue wagons was rare - and if it happened usually later than you are interested in. On the otherhand repainting of real departmental wagons also went slowly so build date often gives an idea of what colour they would be - black, gulf red or olive green.  BR was in dire straits in the 1970s, with plenty believing it was on its way out. Those photos above show the mess very well 

 

Plenty of new build in Gulf Red 

Bartlett, Paul W. (1992) Gulf red - a nearly forgotten BR livery. Modellers' Backtrack vol. 2 (part 4) pp 184 - 188.

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=75

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=76

 

Paul

 

 

[Alex TM]

Hi again,

 

Thanks for the reponses all of which are most helpful.

 

To answer the question from @hmrspaul my query is in relation to 'pukka' engineers' wagons such as Dogfish, Grampus, Sturgeon, etc.

 

Again, thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[Mark Saunders]

Repainting would be based on the last overhaul and associated livery at the time.

 

There were two Gulf Red Catfish stored in York Up Yard in 1985.

[hmrspaul]

6 hours ago, Alex TM said:

Hi again,

 

Thanks for the reponses all of which are most helpful.

 

To answer the question from @hmrspaul my query is in relation to 'pukka' engineers' wagons such as Dogfish, Grampus, Sturgeon, etc.

 

Again, thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

You have chosen to model the nadir of BR history. Compared to the many thousands of wagons, including proper departmentals, built in the 1950s hardly anything had been built since the early 1960s - Ferry vans 400, 100 OOA, a few hundred AB vans, Freightliner flats and I can't think of anything for the engineers (someone will jog my memory I'm sure). (Whales were new, and we can't make up our mind what colour my photos of them show) A few years after your period BR seemed to wake up that people had to use these wagons - probably because of H&S and it became noticeable that handrails, steps etc got a lick of white paint, and others got rather more. But that isn't your period. So, some Grampus, Lamprey and the varied ballast hoppers got an olive green repaint, but not a lot and it is the livery they had on building which dictates what colour they would be, under the grime and rust. As Mark says, Gulf Red persisted well into the 1980s. 

 

Paul

[Rivercider]

My dad was a wagon supervisor for the WR civil engineers. During the school holidays he sometimes took me with him, so during the mid/late 1970s I visited quite a few engineers yards and depots.

 

My memory of the time told me that could not recall seeing any gulf red stock, but after reading and contributing to a number of threads on RMweb about engineers stock I realise my memory was wrong. I had been seeing wagons in gulf red, but by the mid 1970s they were mostly rusty brown.

 

Here is a photo off Flickr from about 1969 posted by John Turner, which is how I remember them.

There is a comment by Paul Bartlett on the Flickr site about the gulf red livery. 

 

 

 

 

cheers

Edited March 14, 2023 by Rivercider
tidying up.

[Enterprisingwestern]

17 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

Bartlett, Paul W. (1992) Gulf red - a nearly forgotten BR livery. Modellers' Backtrack vol. 2 (part 4) pp 184 - 188.

 

A "go to" article if ever there was one!

 

Mike.

[BluenGreyAnorak]

Weren't the Seacows built new in the early '70's? What colour would they have been?

[Rivercider]

4 hours ago, BluenGreyAnorak said:

Weren't the Seacows built new in the early '70's? What colour would they have been?

Sealions, which were dual braked and became TOPS code YGH, were introduced in 1970. A few were air braked only from new and were classified as Seacows becoming TOPS code YGB. They were all olive green when new.

 

More new airbraked only Seacows (TOPS code YGB) were introduced in 1981, they were in dutch livery from new,

 

cheers

 

[hmrspaul]

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brsealion

 

Paul

[Alex TM]

Hi again,

 

Many, many, thanks to all of you for the information, reflections, and memories shared.  All of this will go to help me choose what stock to purchase to run in my chosen period.

 

Picking up on @hmrspaul and his use of the word 'nadir', my own memories of the railways of this era may be summarised in one word, 'grotty'.

 

Again, thanks to you all.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[hmrspaul]

18 hours ago, Alex TM said:

Hi again,

 

Many, many, thanks to all of you for the information, reflections, and memories shared.  All of this will go to help me choose what stock to purchase to run in my chosen period.

 

Picking up on @hmrspaul and his use of the word 'nadir', my own memories of the railways of this era may be summarised in one word, 'grotty'.

 

Again, thanks to you all.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

Agreed it could be grotty - seen in another topic at Hereford in 1975 - and I was awestruck when I saw my first Brush 4 at KX when they were new in two tone green. 

 

 

But, I chose my word carefully because that post 1970s period was very difficult all round and investment on the railways was (appeared to be?) low. Admittedly we did get the HST, after wasting too much on APT which failed because airline engineers didn't understand the railway environment and usage. But I am going OT. 

 

Paul