scanman Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Jumping here, jumping there.... The title of this thread is probably self-explanatory! However, for those of you picking this up for the first time, I am constructing a layout (working diorama would probably be a better title) in the '2010 challenge' ('Ian's FINAL attempt at the Challenge' - subtitled 'a Dairy for Ambridge'). Progress on the trackwork - which includes two fairly tight radius points - is well under way - to the point where it would be nice to have some suitable stock to test them out. Hence the next thread in the Saga (in this forum) 'Tanks for Ambridge' - the construction of two 6-wheeled GW Milk tanks from kits. Due to some issues over the instructions that sub-project is on temporary hold... Well, I still need some motive-power ('EM' does not feature in any RTR manufacturers catalogue!). A '5700' pannier would be ideal - and I have two, one with proprietory chassis, the other just a body-shell. No problems - remove the Bachmann wheels from the existing chassis, drop in a set of Alan Gibsons, wire it for DCC with sound.... Then I took the top off! A project I estimated would take two hours max looks like it will take a couple of days and include fairly major surgery to a massive chassis block which also conducts power to the motor through split-axle connection.... Ah well, there's always the body-shell - which being Bachmann's later variant, doesn't fit the existing chassis (thankfully) and forced me (my arms still up my back - honest) to invest in one of Chris Gibbon's 'High Level' kits. I will straight away give the disclaimer that I have no connection with the company other than as a (very) satisfied customer. By now it's 4pm Friday afternoon, and I've wasted a lot of the day. Time to get serious. Open the box... Everyone looks at the etches first, don't they? and well worth it it is too! They are a thing of beauty - but worthless without detailed instructions. here they are, to the left. 8 pages of 'em including detailed exploded views of the (non-working) inside valve gear, brake rodding and general chassis arrangement. I elected to buy the motor & gearbox as well, and the Gibson wheels - well see above! Tiime to switch on the soldering iron... and by 6.30pm, this is the result. It would be unfair to say this is a 'shake the box' kit - but it d..n well goes together so easily! An indication of the care taken over the design is evident in the rear frame spacer. This has two rounded grooves etched in it. The reason isn't obvious until you assemble the kit. I choose to use sprung pick-ups - and these are the recesses into which the pickups slide... The chassis is so accurate that I did not need to use any form of alignment (usually I assemble the rods - see below - then use 'extended axles' through the bearing to hold it all square. I've chosen - mainly on grounds of speed - not to compensate. I may regret that decision!. Had I done so I would have used an assembly jig... This will not be a 'blow-by-blow' guide by the way - the instructions don't require it. However, I'll add some of the 'how I did it' bits as we go - and heres the first! The side rods are made up in multiple layers to give the required 'heft'. there is a 'core' and two overlays with crankpin journals etc which have to be aligned. Tin all components first EXCEPT the areas which will form the 'knuckle' connection between the rods. Thank God for cocktail sticks and modelmaking pins, which (with a bit of dexterity) hold everything in place during the final 'sweat'- use a very hot iron & plenty of flux! (My thanks to my wife for the photo - I had one hand too few!) The result? Nice little knuckle joint developing , and all in alignment! Well that's it for now - next modelling day is Monday. Off for a weekend in the Cotswolds - and hopefully a photo-recording session on the GWR! Regs Ian B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted July 6, 2010 Author Share Posted July 6, 2010 Back from a very good weekend in the Cotswolds - I'll be returning to the tanks soon... Meanwhile, on with the chassis. The next section is the (non-working) inside motion. Assembled very much according to the instructions with the exception of lining the droplinks (16-19) to the radius arms (20,21). Chris recommends linking them with short L-shaped pieces of 0.5mm wire. That sounded a bit fiddly to me, so my solution is shown below. Use one drop link as a 'template' drill 0.5mm holes in a suitable base material (you could use ply - I do all my soldering on a piece of asbestos [goes with the use of lead-alloy solder!] so just drilled three holes in that...) Cut tow lengths of wire about 10mm long - they'll be the upper & lower links - place them in the holes & drop the three units -pre-tinned - (droplink - raduis arm - droplink) over them. Insert a good length of 0.5mm wire in the centre hole - this makes a handy 'handle' and sweat them all together. Remove from the jig, clean up, trim the wires and Roberts your parents brother.... The only other real tip is on inserting the pistons (22, 23). Do not try and clip a piston into both slide-bars simultaneously - that way lies madness! I soldered the botton clip first then 'fiddled' the top one into position with the very smallest amount of BFI (Brute Force & Ignorance...) The total time to fully assemble the inside motion was about four hours. Was it worth it? Well, at least I know it's there! Next phase is all the detail-work like reinforcing pads, cab floor brackets etc. Regs Ian B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Wow! I nearly bought such a chassis earlier this year but wimped out when I saw the instructions. Could have been a wrong move. Cure for cowardice needed ... CHris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penrhos1920 Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Ian, Watch out there used to be a couple of errors in the instructions, I'm not sure if they have been updated: : High Level Pannier chassis on the Old Forum Wow! I nearly bought such a chassis earlier this year but wimped out when I saw the instructions. Could have been a wrong move. Cure for cowardice needed ... CHris What? If the kit had only half a page of instructions then you'd have bought it? The kit is so easy to build as I wrote. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Wow! I nearly bought such a chassis earlier this year but wimped out when I saw the instructions. Could have been a wrong move. Cure for cowardice needed ... CHris Best instructions i've ever seen and the 14xx was a doddle to follow and build as a result. It'd be finished too but i've decided now the wheelsets really need to be removable so I need to tab the springs 16BA to allow them to be removed. I have a Pannier, Jinty and 03 chassis to do in the future. Glad i'm not the only one who works on material full of 0.3/.4/.5mm holes in it . I use some MDF though, drilling holes in a piece of asbestos doesn't sound like a good idea to me but am I under a false impression that its all bad? Paint the frames a nice bright red now you've put all the motion in , must admit it shows up slightly more on the 14xx and even more so on the Finney 28xx I started. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 ....detailed exploded views of the (non-working) inside valve gear... If you really feel like it, you could try adapting Martin Finney's inside valve gear kit IM7 (2721 pannier) or IM11 (Dean Goods) - which will get you a working setup. Just a thought.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted July 11, 2010 Author Share Posted July 11, 2010 Hi folks sorry for the delay in response - had a great weekend away but had to pay for it by going back to work! A series of early an night shifts... Penrhos1920 with regard to the instructions - I see what you mean. It looks like the brake standard actually lines up with the lever reverse? That's my next job so thanks for the headsup! Horsetan - I'll give the working valve-gear a miss thanks! I'm not really convinced about it's effectiveness in 7mm let alone 4mm! anyway I bottle at the thought of cutting up the axles! Hopefully I'll have the chassis in running order later this week. I'm looking forward to the challeng of fitting DCC sound inside! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Crikey - seven months since the last post... Still, the initial build proved itself - and the dairy pointwok - in 'push-along' mode. Time to start working on the real bits! First - thanks to Penrhos. I didn't make a mistake with the brake standard - nicely sorted, cheers! I've also in the meantime completed the assorted brake-gear - just follow the instructions! As visitors to (initially) the 'challenge' layout (the dairy) and its continuation (Upton Dene)(see links) will be aware, the last seven months have not been too idle - and I'd have got a lotm ore done over Xmas if certain things had not got in my way. So it was back to the modelling bench on Thursday - and on with the gear train. Whilst the assembly follows the instructions to the letter, I found this quite ;fiddly; - in fact it took about five hours to get to the point of fitting the idler gears, with their associated bearings & washers. Theres not much room between the gearbox sides for them and 'holding devices', and try to get everything to line up! However, from there on, fitting the worm and the final drive was a'doddle' and at 16.45hrs today the gearbox took it's first spin under power. Fitting the worm took some higher mathematics - the centre point of the worm has to be 5.5mm from the face of the motor, and the worm itself is 4.5mm long (5.5 & 2.25mm) - so I cut the shaft 8mm long and press-fitted the worm 'til it was flush with the end of the shaft (the extra 0.25mm doesn't seem to matter). (The final drive is currently sitting on a 'Romford' extended axle which I use to jig-build the chassis) So now its just a case of 'marrying' this lot Plus the wheels, rods & pickups, together. Hopefully not another seven months! (Got a 'Finney' 'Bulldog' on order.... yummm) Regards Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted January 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2011 I'm glad this thread has bubbled back to the surface, I missed it first time round! I've got a pannier chassis awaiting construction so am very glad to find out about the error in the instruction sheet. Has anyone let Chris at High Level know about the error so he can amend the instructions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 From his comment I think Penrhos did - but just to make sure I'll be mentioning it to Chris when I speak to him in the next few days (I'll sweeten any criticism with an order ) Enjoy the build Ric - I did! Regs Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 There will be a slight delay! I now have to fit the sprung plunger pick-ups and require some fine wire to make the leads. As usual, I discovered I was 'out' just after the 'Alton Models' shut... However, the chassis has now received it's paintwork. 'GW Way' is somewhat reticent about the inner frame colour for my 1920's-based layout so I'm going with 'Indian red'. Any comment gratefully recieved before I finally fit the workin' gubbins! However, I've not been idle tonight... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/blog/710/entry-5594-the-ex-mswjr-4-4-0-em-compensated-with-dcc-sound/ Regs Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Okay - the frames should be china red, so have been repainted (My thanks to the GWSG - if you model the GW and are not a member - why not?). Whilst waiting for the paint to dry, I gave some thought to the 'upperworks'. I have one and a half panniers... The half-pannier is a bodyshell obtained from Ebay at a very reasonable price and represents the 'late version' of the class. The 'whole pannier' is rhe original Bachmann/Replica/Mainline' version with the low-arc roof and original cab back-plate. It also has a history of it's own having been purchased for my (then) 7-year old son (he's now 25 and not modelling). However, it has huge sentimental meaning to us both as it was a 'mummy & daddy' present - and mummy passed away in 1998. So I had something of a dilemma. I wanted to keep the original in running condition, and it is also more suited to the period of the layout (when I purchased the shell I thought it was the same loco...) However it would have to be 'modded' for 'EM'. The dichotomy is that the 'late' version fits the High Level chassis like a glove, but the original need some modification - The fixing point has to be removed as do the locators for the bunker. At the front, the fixing point also has to be removed. For a loco that had received the attentions of a pre-teen lad, it wasn't im bad shape. A buffer was missing, and a couple of handrail knobs had been broken. Obviously not wanting to incurr my wrath (as if I would...) no1 son had obviously tried his own repair with 'Superglue' - Ah well, out with the tickling sticks a neccessity in any toolkit and easily made from 'wet n'dry' glued to spatula and/or a 'Seattle Coffe co' swizzle stick (there's the excuse for a visit). Not quite there yet, obviously - but the image is quite enlarged! It also gave me the opportunit to deal with the mould line alog the pannier-top which isn't present in any prototype, but the jury's still out about the vertical ones as some variants not made at Swindon do carry rivet lines at these locations. On balance I think I will remove them and have it as a Swindon-built, flush-rivetted version - 5700-5760 (I think). For those who want more information on improving this particular model I thoroughly recommend Iain Rice's 2-part expose in MRJ vols 61-62 - and what follows I blame squarely on him! Having made the little 'refurbs' the model was obviously going to need a re-spray/re-number - but underneath it would still be that present mum & dad bought their little boy all those years ago - what's more, it would be working, rather than left in the display case as a reminder of happy days. So it was time to cast a critical Rice-like eye over the superstructure, starting with the bunker. This will house the DCC speaker, so the metal slug is redundant (that means at some stage the lower half of the cab-back is going to have to be fabricated...) For the time being a ground-down screwdriver was sufficient to remove the moulded-on details which will subsequently be replaced by metal fixings. and there, for a few days, the story rests. Work calls and I must answer (the mortgage, Chancellor of the Exchequer and wife - not neccessarily in that order - ensure that)! Happy modelling Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 Having hacked the bunker to death, it's time to turn to the main body. In my modelling period (1920-1930), the '57s' ran without the external topfeed, so that was going to be a fairly major 'mod'. Working in conjunction with Rice (above) and Jiim Russell's 'GW Engines Vol II' - which has a rather nice photo of an early pannier (5725) sans top feed, and with a completely welded tank - I came up with a list of 22 'jobs' to be done... In no particular order of merit:- 1. Remove topfeed and all associated pipework 2. remove 'welds', 3. Remove tank lifting rings*. 4. Replace same*. 5. Remove the moulded-in body work round the ejectors & tank saddle*. 6. Remove all handrails*. 7 Replace all handrails & reposition if neccessary*. 8. Remove cab doors. 9 Thin all visible edges. 10. Fit cab grab-rail in correct (in-door) position. 11. fit grab rails above front steps*. 12. Remove reversing linkage*. 13. Remove sanding linkage*. 14. Fabricate & re-fit reversing linkage*. 15 Same for sanding linkage*. 16.Remove moulded whistles and shield*. 17 Replace same*. 18 Remove reverser (from cab)(makes removing the door easier). 19. Re-fit same. 20. Remove the 'pimple (or should it be carbuncle?) from the dome*. 21. Fit lamp brackets*. 22. Refit tank filler caps & vents*. *Pure Rice! Phew! so lets make a start.... With a SHARP scalpel. Change the blade regularly - there is nothing more dangerous than a blunt scalpel blade, and fingers are going to be in close proximity to it! Removing the topfeed & pipework is fairly major surgery. I started with the topfeed itelf, trimming away the sides until I could run the scalpel-blade all round it. This leaves a nasty hole - which will be filled with fine-quality 'Milliput'. The major sanding-down in this area will be done then (note also the 'carbuncle'). It was then a case of working the scalpel round all the relevant detail to be removed. My preferred method (and copied from many others!) is to make a series of 'v'-shaped nicks in the pipework/feature that I want to remove, then carefully 'join up the dots'. When the majority of the item has been removed I then use the front tip of the blade to remove the rest, stopping when I start to lift paint from the surrounding bodywork. After 2-1/2 hours - this is the result some rubbing-down with 1200-grade wet n'dry 'tickling sticks (used wet) has already occurred. Note the 'carbuncle' has disappeared! The cab doesn't look much yet - I'm contemplating removing the rear door section - but that is going to make the cab rear very fragile for a while. So that's it for tonight - I'll do the other side tommorrow morning & then the re-build starts! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Almost time to start the re-build. However, two more little jobs - 23 & 24 - remove & replace the cab beading. Well, the cabsides were going to be thinned-down and I need a fixing for the cab-door handrails - which on the early version were not on the cabside. Most of the rest of the day was spent on this & preparing the nearside of the loco as per yesterday. At last, this evening, construction could begin. First task was to strenthen the cab back. It is very floppy otherwise! Soon fashioned out of a piece of 20 thou - the coal door aperture is going to be deliberately left wide to allow the 'sound' to come out!. The gaps will be filled with 'Milliput' tommorrow when the cab has hardened off. 'Milliput' covers a multitiude of sins - filling the topfeed hole (that's not quite there yet - needs a dressing layer) and like a woman's makeup - hides a multitude of blemishes! The thing I like about 'Milliput' is the way it smooths out beautifully just using a damp rag. The small marks on the tank sides (hiding the occasional slip with the blade) are already flush with the surface, and I've not yet 'wet 'n dried' them.. Tommorrow I'll be putting this aside for the day - need to crack on with the MSWJR 4-4-0 on the blog. Never a dull moment! Regs Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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