Transport for the South-East's New London to Sussex Line.

[C126]

Not sure if others have seen or posted this, but a friend has sent me this link:

 

https://www.sussexexpress.co.uk/news/transport/new-rail-line-with-fast-services-from-sussex-to-london-to-be-built-4075821

 

If you can read through the infuriating ads, pop-ups, etc., it appears to be starting with... rebuilding the Lewes-Uckfield railway line!  As my chum and I said, 'We'll believe it when we see it'.  All thoughts/more info. gratefully received.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

I don't know how many times this proposal has reared its head. In hindsight closing the link was a mistake, given the increase in housing in the area and it's very obvious benefit as a diversion route. That said I am not sure there is a strong business case for reinstatement (or else it would have been done sooner!) in today's climate, so as much as I would love to see it happening, I suspect (like you) that it won't.

[AlanRogers]

I'm finding this sort of stuff coming up all of the time in what appear to be quasi-regionalised online news feeds, something like an actual newspaper but there's no obvious media body behind it. There's no evidence of research into the story either, no quotations, no balance, just the propagation of gossip, almost as if they're picked it up somewhere and rebranded it as a story on a slow news day.

 

To be honest, it's not much better than the email chain letters of old. Regurgitated content without substance appears to be what passes for journalism these days. As a result, now I tend to only believe what I read in real newspapers, even if it is online, and then take that with a pinch of salt proportional to the amount of red in the masthead.

Edited March 24, 2023 by AlanRogers

[Oldddudders]

As Claude says, this idea rumbles around, and in an era when Brighton Main Line user is obviously well over its reliable capacity, it sounds like a bright idea. Except that the costs would be enormous, not least re-instating double track throughout from Hurst Green Junction, and then electrifying it. And however clever the alignments were, it would still be a much slower route from London to Brighton. Annexing the Bluebell and on to Haywards Heath would be cheaper - but politically sensitive. 

 

An east chord at Arundel Junction, with resignalling on the Mid-Sussex for extra capacity, would give much better value for money. 

[C126]

I did wonder if this body 'Transport for the South-East' had any sort of 'punch'.  I have down-loaded all 124pp. of its report to investigate, but feared it was just another 'wish' by some consultant or interested quango/ local govt group.  Quite why they think it will be so cheap, and be funded in the current climate, I would love to know.

[Nearholmer]

Making a case for re-opening Uckfield to Lewes will always be a struggle, because although there is another spurt of house-building going on in Uckfield and Crowborough, the only two large centres of population that are relevant, and the smaller towns and villages, the railway route south of Edenbridge is one that largely avoids where people live (which is why it is such a scenic ride)!
 

 Uckfield station is nicely located in the middle of the town, but Crowborough’s isn’t; the “walk to the station” radius from Crowborough station doesn’t catch much population at all. The town is widely spread over the top of a sizeable hill, with the station in the valley at one edge.
 

The truncated line only works on the basis of commuting and London-focused leisure, based on people driving to the stations, and I am really, really sceptical that enough Lewes and Brighton direction commuting and leisure traffic could be generated from Crowborough and the smaller places to justify a re-opening. Uckfield would contribute traffic, but almost certainly not enough on its own. The schools, hospitals, shopping etc axis doesn’t, and never really did, run along the railway, it runs along the A26, with Tunbridge Wells an important focus - the bus routes along the A26 have always been stronger arteries than the railway, I’m afraid, and even they are now short of patronage post-Covid, with the core route cut from half-hourly to hourly.

 

As for being a diversionary route: that alone could never make the case.

 

Its a real bngger that it was closed n the first place, because I can quite see it paying purely in upkeep terms, but not in re-opening terms.

 

Personally, if I was to spend money on transport provision to benefit the local population, I think I would spend it on returning the bus capacity and speeding up the bus trip by bus priority measures at every pinch point (of which there are several). Heresy as it is, using the Uckfield-Lewes track bed as a busway might actually serve everyone better, because that section f the A26 is “very retro”.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Nearholmer

[Rich_F]

I moved to East Grinstead in 2016 & I've seen new proposals for reopening about the Wealden line 5 times! While I would love for the lines in the area to be reopened the Arundel/Ford curve or Lewes curve would be much easier. 

 

If you're going to reopen Sussex - London routes then I reckon the Cuckoo Line would be competing on a similar cost per benefit ratio, given multiple MASSIVE developments going up in Hailsham, Heathfield & smaller ones in Horam/Rotherfield. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Weeny Works

[C126]

Thanks to you all for your contributions.  Pondering my own model railway set on the High Weald got me thinking about population densities, passenger flows, etc., and as @Nearholmer says (if I understand correctly), are there really sufficient people wishing to travel south to Lewes (who would not?!? 🙂  ), Brighton, universities at Falmer, or to change for Eastbourne?  I fear not.  While a railway line might attract new flows, I doubt there would be sufficient to recover the enormous costs of reopening Lewes-Uckfield, alas.  I do not know the statistics, but I assume commuters and leisure travellers on the High Weald are more interested in heading to London, and more locally Tunbridge Wells, etc.

 

Thanks as always for giving this your attention, and sharing your thoughts.

Edited March 24, 2023 by C126

[SR71]

The problem has always been the Brighton Line South of Haywards heath is only 2 track and it seems maintenance can only go so far when you can't take possession of half the line leaving the route open off peak as far as I understand. It's been plagued by rail replacement space hopper services in the 20 years I've lived down here and it's more or less assumed by locals it won't be open to trains on a Sunday and probably not on a Saturday either. If they don't close it they have a small window at night in which to work. The vomit comet gets in around half 2 and the first train up is around half five or six.

 

People at work have been complaining about an increase in broken rails and signalling faults recently. So I say double track the bluebell (also demolish some houses in Newick -sorry) have the West side as part of the national network and East as heritage. Adjust spilt for galas and peak demand.

[C126]

Drifting off into both phantasy and away from the thread, I have wondered about using the start of the Ardingly line to branch off with another two tracks, with a new junction heading northwards to form a new 'Ouse Valley Viaduct' about half-a-mile eastwards.  Tunnelling north, it would join the main line north of Balcombe Tunnel.  All pie-in-the-sky and too long spent gazing at O.S. maps, of course!

[Rich_F]

6 minutes ago, C126 said:

Drifting off into both phantasy and away from the thread, I have wondered about using the start of the Ardingly line to branch off with another two tracks, with a new junction heading northwards to form a new 'Ouse Valley Viaduct' about half-a-mile eastwards.  Tunnelling north, it would join the main line north of Balcombe Tunnel.  All pie-in-the-sky and too long spent gazing at O.S. maps, of course!

 

That's the next layout idea! Revolution Trains N Scale Electrostar at Ardingly! 

[pete_mcfarlane]

8 hours ago, C126 said:

I did wonder if this body 'Transport for the South-East' had any sort of 'punch'.  I have down-loaded all 124pp. of its report to investigate, but feared it was just another 'wish' by some consultant or interested quango/ local govt group.  Quite why they think it will be so cheap, and be funded in the current climate, I would love to know.

 

There's a pressure group dedicated to the reopening of the line, who come up with laughable cost estimates (of the 'clear the bushes from the track bed and plonk down some track, job done' variety). It wouldn't be the first time that a pressure group's press release announcing their latest 'study' has been presented by a newspaper as 100% proof a line is reopening. 

 

Also, what happens when the trains get to Croydon? Where is the extra capacity coming from?

 

I reckon we should write a press release about 'HS5', the new high speed line to be built from London to Brighton (through the Weald on a 20' high concrete viaduct' with a spur right into the middle of Tunbridge Wells) and send it to all the local papers. They'll present it as really happening, and the NIMBYs will be in uproar. 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by pete_mcfarlane