Osborn’s Models Exclusives, TT 1:120 “Arch Laser”

[Flying Pig]

16 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

 

Wheel face to wheel face = 14.6mm

Inside frame unsmoothed 14.5mm

Once I've squared up the edges it closer to 14.3mm.

 

I can work with that though it will require the side frames to be perfectly vertical with little available slop which isn't great.

 

 

Tillig wheel face to wheel face = 15.0mm

Piko wheel face to wheel face = 15.0mm

 

Visually the wheels provided with the kit are finer looking than the Tillig or Piko wheels (I can't find my Roco TT120 wagon at the moment)

 

 

Width over wheelfaces is not specified as such in NEM 310, but adding up wheel widths and back to back gives a range of 14.8 - 15.4mm.   As far as I can work out, this is 8 - 10% overscale, so when thicker than scale kit components are factored in (probably anything other than etched metal), clearances are inevitably going to be tight.  I do wonder how much tyre width could be shaved for TT wheels and still run reliably on say Peco track, but unfortunately that risks the same mess of track and wheel standards that plagues 00, even though it might make kit design easier.

[luke_stevens]

Much to my immense amazement the bogie runs! And smoothly too!

 

Pic1

 

 

Pic 2 with the springs at the top

 

 

Pic 3 with the spring at the bottom. You can see the extra pieces I've added for support. Without these there is nothing for the spring to glue to. I think it must be designed for the spring to attach to the bogie frame but I tried that and it just looks wrong.

 

 

Pic 4 from the side 

 

 

Pic 5 Horrid and unclear enlargement

 

 

Pic 6 you can see here where I have filed down part of the springs to position them better

 

[luke_stevens]

I think someone asked about coupling heights...

 

 

Damned near perfect, even with my building skills!

 

The instructions talk about using superglue or making a covering piece to hold the coupling in place. As you can see from where the black coupler box is visible a cover piece wouldn't work. Using an old bottle of Rocket Superglue Medium I spread a little glue on the top face of the coupler box and then pressed it in place (I'd already test fitted it). I had removed the coupling before I glued the box into place to remove the possibility of gluing the whole thing solid...

[D9020 Nimbus]

The problem I can see is that, since the NEM359 couplers lock rigidly together, there has to be some form of kinematic mechanism or the first curve will lead to a derailment. You might just get away with it on a bogie vehicle such as this, but NOT on, say, a "Fruit D"…

[luke_stevens]

1 hour ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

 

You might just get away with it on a bogie vehicle such as this, but NOT on, say, a "Fruit D"…

 

 

I'll let you know how things go!

[luke_stevens]

Research!

 

Turns out that my original idea of this early style Syphon G being in blue, with the "American" bogies isn't correct but... Rule 1) It's my railway!

 

The later style of Syphon G's did get into BR Blue as Newspapers, Enparts and BR Engineering olive grey. All had later bogie types.

 

[luke_stevens]

Right, research "wot I 'ave lermt"

 

The Osborn's Models Siphon G is a Diagram O.11 as it is outside framed. There were six batches of O.11 built between 1912 and 1926. The first two batches had different trussing arrangements. Of the 4 remaining batches 3 had gas lighting with a large horizontal gas cylinder obvious on the underframe. The Osborn's Models does not have this cylinder, though the underframe has a cut out above where it would go. The Model comes with battery boxes so is part of batch 4, lot 1347 which had electric lighting. The Siphons were delivered with a variety of bogie types which got changed around. Lot 1347 ran from 1290 to 1309 and the last 7 were withdrawn in Nov/Dec '62. In BR days they were painted as passenger vehicles starting in crimson livery and going into maroon. There are several Siphon G's preserved but most are of later designs that O.11. The O.11 that is preserved is the gas lit 1257, which the Osborn's Models does not portray.

 

But I want mine in BR Blue and so it shall be :)

 

Rail-Tec transfers offer Blue livery Siphon G decals in TT https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=5735.

 

None of the numbers on the sheet are correct for the Osborne's Model, but there is a W1310 and a W1048 which, lighting and eyesight permitting with combine to give W1304.

 

All of this is "close enough" :)

 

Luke

[britishcolumbian]

The question that then arises is, how much work would it be to convert the kit to a later Siphon G?

[luke_stevens]

3 hours ago, britishcolumbian said:

The question that then arises is, how much work would it be to convert the kit to a later Siphon G?

 

New sides and ideally new bogies.

 

The first would be easy for Osborn's Models. The second is more difficult.

 

I think the kit would also benefit from an etched brass component sheet with the prominent end lamp irons, the end handrails and, even though they are already in stiff card, the end steps. A piece of wire for the vacuum cylinder actuator and handle, though that may be just too small.

 

Luke

[luke_stevens]

This morning I gave the frets a light coat of Tamiya deck tan to work as a primer coat. 

 

I was surprised at the lack of grain showing on the primed surfaces. The "normal" surfaces needed the lightest of polish, but the laser eroded surfaces such as the battery boxes and coach ends needed quite a bit of work. I haven't any photos as I've given the relevant parts another coat, this time hand painted. The ends are fine but I really wish I'd at least pre-sanded the battery boxes before I installed them as they are now difficult to access. The long detail side eroded piece really need sanding but there is so much detail (strapping, hinges, locks, etc) that it is really difficult to make much difference without damaging the detail.

 

Tomorrow will be another sand, another light spray coat and a final sand. I should then be able to assemble to body and start on forming the roof :) And spray the bogies and underframe black.

 

There are a couple of points where I think there are minor errors in the kits design (not it's accuracy) but I'll wait until I've finished to discuss them.

 

Luke

Edited March 29, 2023 by luke_stevens

[luke_stevens]

On 26/03/2023 at 00:59, britishcolumbian said:

Thanks for these informative posts. I found out about these kits a few days ago and have been eyeing them, looks like I'll order some once I'm back home from Hungary. Just need to figure out which cars A) lasted the longest post-nationalisation, and B) are likeliest to have been seen around Yeovil.

 

As I have "the book" I may be able to help!

 

Lot 1347 was for 20 Siphon's (the closest to the Osborn's Models kit)

 

Withdrawn

1x 9/58

1x 1/60

1x 9/60

1x 8/61

1x 11/61

1x 4/62

4x 6/62

2x 8/62

2x 11/62

6x 12/62

 

 The book gives no indication on what sort of services these would have been in. For some other batches individual Siphons had dedicated duties.

 

They would have most lily have been in maroon livery but could still be in the earlier crimson.

 

Hope this helps :)

 

Luke

 

[britishcolumbian]

6 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

Hope this helps :)

It does! All gone before my chosen time-point of September 1965... but the time difference isn't *that* big, certainly close enough that if I pay a bit of attention to avoid any anachronisms in a given set up, it'll be fine, certainly would fit behind my Class 22 at least in terms of time period.

 

Any idea about the fruit and fish and cattle vans they're offering?

[luke_stevens]

7 hours ago, britishcolumbian said:

It does! All gone before my chosen time-point of September 1965... but the time difference isn't *that* big, certainly close enough that if I pay a bit of attention to avoid any anachronisms in a given set up, it'll be fine, certainly would fit behind my Class 22 at least in terms of time period.

 

Rule 1) It's your railway. I'm putting one into BR blue so mine is more anachronistic than yours would be! And just becasue something is "withdrawn" doesn't mean it isn't still working: several Hymeks refused to be withdrawn for months. It could also be that it was withdrawn somewhere on the system and is slowly making its way back to Swindon for scrapping (Or Didcot for preservation), or to departmental service...

 

7 hours ago, britishcolumbian said:

Any idea about the fruit and fish and cattle vans they're offering?

 

No, there doesn't seem to be any books specifically on Fruit, Fish or Cattle, but I would expect the Fruit to have survived longer as a useful wagon that didn't smell, unlike the Fish :)

 

Luke

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, luke_stevens said:

 

Rule 1) It's your railway. I'm putting one into BR blue so mine is more anachronistic than yours would be! And just becasue something is "withdrawn" doesn't mean it isn't still working: several Hymeks refused to be withdrawn for months. It could also be that it was withdrawn somewhere on the system and is slowly making its way back to Swindon for scrapping (Or Didcot for preservation), or to departmental service...

 

 

No, there doesn't seem to be any books specifically on Fruit, Fish or Cattle, but I would expect the Fruit to have survived longer as a useful wagon that didn't smell, unlike the Fish :)

 

Luke

 

Fruit, Fish and Cattle are all covered in the GWR Wagons bible. Unfortunately expensive as it's out of print. But if you want a copy keep searching as I got a copy for £25 recently. The earlier editions are much cheaper, but the newer version has a lot more information and photos in it. I think something like 700 photos.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/GWR-Goods-Wagons-G-Atkins/dp/0860936570

 

There was also some very good articles in Great Western Journal on GWR wagons.

 

Fish and Fruit vans were certainly still knocking about in the 1980s in departmental service. Quite common as ENPARTS wagons (engine parts).

 

Siphons and horse boxes aren't in the wagon book as they are classed with the passenger stock as NPCCS. It was the horse box I was looking at to try. Even if it doesn't turn out that good it can be slung in to a loading bay. I want to see how I get on with the PECO station building first as I've never made anything from laser cut wood.

 

https://www.osbornsmodels.com/ocww-altt017-tt-1120-scale--gwr-paco-c--diagram-n15-horse-box-kit-55716-p.asp

 

 

Jason

[D9020 Nimbus]

The Fruit D seems to have lasted a pretty long time—wasn't this also NPCCS? Latterly used on parcels duties and it seems to have wandered around quite a lot.

[Steamport Southport]

5 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

The Fruit D seems to have lasted a pretty long time—wasn't this also NPCCS? Latterly used on parcels duties and it seems to have wandered around quite a lot.

 

Yes. It was also classed as a BR standard design and they were still building them well into the late 1950s. They are actually covered in the BR Mark One Coaches book, but only vaguely.

 

This one here was built in 1958, livery is not correct for that van.

 

https://www.nnrailway.co.uk/portfolio-items/fruit-d-van-no-w92097w/

 

The GWR couldn't seem to make their mind up whether they were NPCCS or goods stock. They received both brown and grey liveries.

 

Another example here.

 

https://www.svrwiki.com/GWR_3467_Fruit_D_Van

 

 

Jason

[luke_stevens]

25 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

The Fruit D seems to have lasted a pretty long time—wasn't this also NPCCS? Latterly used on parcels duties and it seems to have wandered around quite a lot.

 

The latest seem to be '81

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=Fruit d

[Ravenser]

20 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

 

The latest seem to be '81

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=Fruit d

 

Departmental service extends that to 1985

 

Yeovil Junction was and is ex LSW (east /west route), Yeovil Pen Mill is ex GW (north/south route) , someone will tell us when the ex LSW lines in this area were transfered to the Western Region (who got busy closing them - the Yeovil Town branch being an example) . 

 

The connection from Yeovil Jnc to Pen Mill is there to allow diversionary routings from Castle Cary on the GW West of England route to Yeovil Junc on the Waterloo -Exeter route. So Western services could be diverted away from the GW route through  Taunton via the LSW route through Yeovil and Exmouth Jnc ; equally Waterloo - Exeter trains could be diverted onto the GW main line and away from the Waterloo-Exeter route east of Yeovil

 

GW vans at Yeovil should not a problem

[luke_stevens]

The parts have now had a couple of lights coat of Tamiya Deck Tan with a gentle sand after each coat. After the second coat I used some Humbrol Model Filler diluted with Humbrol Liquid Poly to give it a thin almost runny consistency. 

 

1) both bogies. These both needed quite a bit of filler, mainly on the axle boxes which have a sloped front. If the bogies were to be a light colour then I'd do another round of fill, sand and paint, but as they are going to be painted black then underframe dirt I don't need to

 

2) The tops layer of the side etch. It has amazing detail but as I mentioned before sanding to remove the striations will remove too much detail. I have done some sanding on the diagonal framing as there was room but the doors are just too small for anything more than a scrape.

 

3) and 4) The ends have been sanded, painted, sanded, filler and rescribed.

 

 

 

 5) General view of the underframe from too close up!

 

6) Horrifically close up of the batter box! Above the truss member you can see the laser etched surface of the battery box. I really should have sanded, filled and sanded before I assembled the underframe.

 

Since I took these photos I have pained the bogies and underframe black but I'll wait for daylight to take photos.

 

I think I will next tackle to roof before assembling and attaching the sides as it will give me better access.

 

Luke

[natterjack]

I think you are discovering the method- fill/sand, fill/sand etc.

 

Reiterating what I've mentioned above, preparation of the full frets will really pay dividends and it can also be easier to tidy up edges at that stage. One useful sanding  tool I forgot to suggest is a multi grade nail polishing block around six inches long as may be found in the cosmetic aisles.

 

Just out of interest, were the webs connecting the parts to the fret very thin? From experience I have made mine  @ 1 to1.5mm for nominal 0.5mm ply so bits do not break away during prep, and if carefully placed are easy to clean up later.

[luke_stevens]

2 hours ago, natterjack said:

I think you are discovering the method- fill/sand, fill/sand etc.

 

Reiterating what I've mentioned above, preparation of the full frets will really pay dividends and it can also be easier to tidy up edges at that stage.

 

 

Yes, I certainly wish I'd prepped the battery boxes before I installed them, but I would have had to remove them from the fret first. In general the surface of the wood didn't fiber-up as I'd expected. It is more that the grain "valleys" were greater than I realised. As always the "second" model will be better! 

 

2 hours ago, natterjack said:

One useful sanding  tool I forgot to suggest is a multi grade nail polishing block around six inches long as may be found in the cosmetic aisles.

 

I've been using nail polish blocks, tiny diamond files and, especially, the Albion Alloys 3mm sanding sticks. Before and after priming I've been using the grey sticks, very lightly, usually followed by the finest-but-one of the Gaugemaster Modelling Sanders https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/gaugemaster-gm620-flexible-modelling-sanders-90x19x6mm.html

 

2 hours ago, natterjack said:

Just out of interest, were the webs connecting the parts to the fret very thin? From experience I have made mine  @ 1 to1.5mm for nominal 0.5mm ply so bits do not break away during prep, and if carefully placed are easy to clean up later.

 

Very thin! For some pieces (axle boxes) they were hardly there at all. For others they were scarcely thicker than a human hair!

 

 

 

Luke

[luke_stevens]

With a coat of black acrylic primer things look much smoother! I will need to do a second coat as I've missed a couple of deep parts and have finally fitted the second coupling.

 

[luke_stevens]

One aspect that was worrying me at the start of the build is that the roof was just a piece of laminated card. I've tried sticking flat card to a curved surface in the past and things haven't gone well as the flat surface wants to "unpeel" from the curved supports. Previously i had tried bending with my fingers but getting a constant curve proved "difficult", so this time I decided to bend the card with round formers. 

 

The 3 tubes are large brass, medium aluminium and small brass. no particular measurements but they need to be smaller than the radius you want as the card will not curve to the size. In the pics I'm using the back of a nail sanding blocks but the back of a mouse mat would do fine.

 

1) the roof has had a general roll but now I'm working on the edges which are the most difficult to get right.

 

2) Unlike with brass the technique is more of pressing the tub / bar into the surface than rolling it.

 

3) Close enough for the moment!

 

Luke

[natterjack]

13 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

Very thin! For some pieces (axle boxes) they were hardly there at all. For others they were scarcely thicker than a human hair!

Another 'trick' is a light spray of 'repositionable' mount spray (any art materials supplier) on  a piece of card or fine wet & dry and use this as a backing support for the preparation (also helps in keeping bits away from the jaws of the carpet monster). A sprinkle of talc will quickly get rid of any unwanted tackiness.

[luke_stevens]

Some of my previous shots were a bit too enlarged! The striations are very minor, even at a normal modelling distance let alone to 3ft / 1m usual viewing distance.

 

1) The major parts ready to be assembled. The black cylinder is the brake cylinder, and I think I may have made a mistake. When I go the kit the circle in the underframe was still present so I glued to 3 parts to make the cylinder. It then fell out... I think it shouldn't have been there and then I could have glued the brake cylinder to the floor of the body, giving it the right height and acting as a registration point. I may modify as the build progresses...

 

2) Sides attached with Deluxe Material Aliphatic Resin Glue https://deluxematerials.co.uk/collections/all-products/products/aliphatic-resin-112g and held in place with Tamiya masking tape

 

 

As a note, the two parts of the sides were glued together with the same aliphatic Resin Glue but the bottle I have is getting a bit stodgy so I thinned it 1:1 and then applied with a wide soft foam brush to the back of the outer framing. I then clamped them together between 2 steel rulers and the provided clamping plates (wrapped in clingfilm so they didn't stick) and a piece of card in the middle of the sandwich.

Edited April 2, 2023 by luke_stevens