Bentley St. Mary - a Southern vignette in N gauge

[AndyB]

@Artless Bodger I wonder if something like a contact adhesive followed by hairspray might work.

 

Thanks @Keith Addenbrooke for the ballast images. I'm definitely going to sieve my  ballast this time. And also find a better way to get a decent edge. The decorators tape I used last time didn't quite work, if memory serves. 

[RobAllen]

21 hours ago, AndyB said:

I think reverting to RTP Peco is for the best. This hasn't been a happy or fun experience for quite a while. And it'd be good to get back to enjoying the hobby.

I built a Finetrax OO point as a test for my new layout. While it went together reasonably well, I didn't enjoy building it enough that I am looking forward to building the rest that are required. As a result, I'm going to use Peco Bullhead as I don't want to resent time spent on my hobby as I'll end up avoiding it.
 

[AndyB]

So, on the theme of switching back to Peco I did a quick inventory of what Code 55 turnouts I had left over from past layouts.

 

A mixed bag of Electrofrogs, a Unifrog and an Insulfrog double slip.

 

Taking into account the M7 branch train would be a frequent user of the double slip  I think it would be a mistake to re-use that particular component; I suspect I'd see a lot of stalling there by the loco and frustration by me!

 

I'll need to revise what modifications will be needed to the Electrofrogs. 

[AndyB]

First of all a big thank you to everyone who pitched in with thoughts earlier in the week. Really appreciated them. Thank you.

 

I'm now hoping you may ve able to offer some further thoughts about rough riding through a double slip.. 

 

I've been doing some investigation with turnouts that I've got already and seeing what else I'd need to purchase. 

 

I already have an Insulfrog code 55 double slip. So I wanted to see if the lightweight & short M7 would stall on it. Testing showed it wouldn't. So that's the best part of £50 saved if i dont nwed to buy an Electrofrog equivalent. 

 

 

What I did notice, however, was that the locos wheels lift up in a couple of places. This also happens with lightweight wagons.

 

 

 

Does anyone know if there's a way to cure this? I'm wondering if a bit of judicious filing might help? But obviously don't want to start doing that unless you reckon it'd help?

 

Any tboughts?

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Hi Andy, are you able to check the “back to back” measurement for that wheel set - it looks from the photo that the flange is riding up on that third axle?  Is it catching on the check rail* inside it?

 

The other questions in my mind are the obvious ones?

• Does it just happen on one side of the loco?
• Does it happen on just one side of the slip - or in all directions?
• Does it happen on any other Code 55 Insulfrog points?
• Does it happen with any other rolling stock (you mentioned lightweight wagons - do the same tests with them?)

Basically it’s all about eliminating the variables before any irreversible filing begins - just as with electrical problems (which I know nothing about).  Nothing original in my thinking, but I hope it helps, Keith.

 

(* may not be the correct term in a double slip)

[Andy_C]

2 hours ago, AndyB said:

Does anyone know if there's a way to cure this? I'm wondering if a bit of judicious filing might help? But obviously don't want to start doing that unless you reckon it'd help?

Hi

 

I had this issue with code 55 eletrofrog double slips. In my case it was a 9f and a Class 37 that’ jumped’. The front axle on the 9f wasn’t correct, and neither were several in the 37. A DCC Concepts b2b gauge was used, and 99% sorted the issue - on 5 out of 6 double slips. The sixth one then needed a bit of delicate filing. Sorted.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

[AndyB]

Hi @Keith Addenbrooke Thanks for your analysis.

 

I don't have a gadget to check B2Bs. But reading @Andy_C's post I think I'd better invest in one.

But I  do have a second M7 which behaves similarly.

I tried a heavy class 33 diesel and this was OK. As was a (light) coach. 

 

I suspect a little very gentle filing may help. But I don't want to rush into anything. Especially with the recent issues I've had with kit points!

Edited February 29 by AndyB

[Andy_C]

My friend @Duncan. An I spent a good hour on a troublesome double slip, believing Farish couldn’t have got the b2b’s wrong on a brand new Class 37. Nuff said. I’ve linked him into this particular reply, as he’s a wizz with this kind of thing… 

 

The DCC concepts gauge isn’t expensive. If you have a vernier gauge then you might get away with checking with that?

[AndyB]

I was going to wait until I'd got everything wired up and trains running before giving an update. 

 

But that may take a little bit longer and I thought you might be interested to see how things are progressing.

 

This is a shot of the central part if the layout and is basically the station throat.

 

 

Following the issues I encountered around the finescale kits I recycled a number of Electrofrog points, and Insulfrog double slip and bought a couple of extra Unifrog points. The track is British Finescale. Where it butts up to Peco Code 55 points I've added a piece of cardboard* underneath to match the rail heights. 

*Metcalfe platform surface card is just right for anyone that's interested.

 

For each of the points I've added dropper wires, bonded the stock rails to the point blades and isolated the frog. 

 

Next steps. 

1. Fit and programme the servos; made easier as the sub-baseboard is small and easy to turn over and work on.

2. Wire up the servo switches.

3. Paint the control box and print a track diagram onto it.

4. Connect the droppers to the power supply bus and...

5. Hope there are no shorts!

6. Put all 3 layout boards back together and test. 

7. At the baseboard extremities solder the track to screws to prevent damage and help with track alignment.

8. Weather the track.

9. Ballast.

10. Add 3rd rail and protection boards.

 

Cheers for now. Andy

 

[AndyB]

Afternoon all

Hope that the weather is as nice where you are as it is here.

 

With Spring in the air, which normally signals me getting stuck into modelling, I've been doing some of the boring bits.

 

First job was to extend the servo switch leads so they'll reach the mimic panel.

Now just waiting for some cable tidy to turn up so I can convert this pile of spaghetti into a more manageable flying lead.

 

 

Next up was designing the artwork for the mimic panel. I used PowerPoint for this. 

 

 

Printed onto photographic paper, Pritt-sticked onto MDF and then covered in sticky-backed plastic. Next job is to fit and wire-up some switches.

 

 

I've forward planned using the Dapol motorised bracket signal. It's not ideal as the actual signal had a lattice-type post and may well have been upper quadrant.

 

I think the LSWR switched over to upper quadrant on the nearby line through Liphook.

 

The Dapol signal is a GWR lower quadrant.

That said a working signal will have play value, even if its not prototypical.

 

Cheers for now. Andy

 

Edited March 17 by AndyB

[AndyB]

 

 

I thought it might be fun to mark the 1st birthday of this layout thread!!

 

And to help celebrate I wanted to show the progress that's been made over the kast 12 months. 

 

This time last year I'd got a plan and a newly made workbench. Didn't it look tidy!!

 

 

And a year on the track laying and wiring are drawing to a conclusion. 

 

Let's not zoom in too close on this next mess photo. I'm not quite there yet so this was a bit of an ad hoc shove it together photo.

 

 

Some bits have worked well. Some bits haven't worked at all. Such is life.

 

But all of it will work well - even if that means tearing up some of it and trying again; I'm not going to be precious about any of it.

 

So. To Year 2.

My best guess is that by the end of the Easter holiday I should have trains circulating. This may mean some of the station throat has to be relaid for more reliable running. 

 

As summer progresses I'm hoping to move on to the scenics.

 

But, for now, thanks for taking an interest in my layout thread over the last 12 months. 

 

AndyB

 

[AndyB]

Evenin' all.

 

I'm lucky enough to have the week off so I've been adding contact switches to the servo motors for frog switching.

 

My plan this week is to get as far as putting the backscene together; @stivesnick proposed using knock-down blocks to allow the backscene to be removable. A packet have been ordered and I'm looking forward to trying these out.

 

And a car reversing camera kit has also been ordered to visualise what's happening in the hudden fiddle yard. 

 

All has gone well apart from the last remaining finescale point which stubbornly refused to accept that voltage was being applied to the frog. I'd hoped that previous repairs to this point would be reliable. But one of the frog blades has now parted company from the webbing leaving nothing much to attach it to again. 

 

So my plan is to bin it and replace it with a Peco Unifrog. Above aesthetics I really want to achieve reliable running. 

 

That's about it for now. But any thoughts or comments are always welcome. 

Andy

[DavidMcKenzie]

The car reversing camera is a neat idea for viewing the fiddle yard 👍 I like that.

[AndyB]

14 hours ago, DavidMcKenzie said:

The car reversing camera is a neat idea for viewing the fiddle yard 👍 I like that.

 

I looked at all sorts of solutions for track occupancy and decided that this was the 2nd least complex / expensive. The simplest would have been an angled mirror + cricked neck.

I found a reversing camera and monitor kit on ebay for about £15 and a 12 V psu for about £9.

 

I'm hoping that at a glance I'll  be able to see if a siding is occupied, how far the train has gone into the siding and isn't fouling points, and any derailment or stalls.

 

I'll post some pictures when I've got it set up. 

[AndyB]

What's happening on the layout I hear you all ask.

Well I'm glad you did.

The last remaining fi escape point failed. And mixing and matching with Code 55 didn't work terribly well in terms of running smoothness.

So I took the decision to standardise on Code 55 and ripped up the remaining track.

 

 

A quick trip to my local model railway emporium I came vack with a replace

replacement Unifrog point and 8 lengths of Peco. This was easily fixed and rewired over the last week.

 

 

Testing was possible on the down line over the last few days and I've had the great pleasure of sering various locos circling the

layout. 

 

There's a couple of shorts on the up line which I need to run to ground this week.

 

But it's been great being able to run all my rolling stock in without having to press "reverse" every few seconds!

 

Gratuitous shot of my UM B12 that recently came back from Coastal DCC for a Digitrax decoder fitting.  

 

And finally both point control mimic boards.

Spenthalf an hour this morning chasing a dry joint down...but its that problem solving that makes the hobby keep the old neurons firing?

 

 

Anyway, that's all I've got to show you at the moment. 

Cheers for now. Andy

[AndyB]

I started to write a piece on how I've been attacking the layout's snagging list.

 

Suffice to say whilst running different locos I'm finding track where fishplates have not been fitted (by me) correctly, soldered joints that used too much soldered and cause rough rolling, the occasional short and fine plastic detailing parts snagging on servo wires.

 

But instead here's a pile of wiring that needs a good tidying up!  It's certainly  a target rich environment with plenty of opportunities to shorten cables and fix them together and secure them in place.

 

The servo control boards are particularly busy areas with cables for both switches and motors.

 

 

I know this is the boring bit.

But I think getting it nice and tidy will help with long-term satisfaction with the layout.

 

Cheers. Andy

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

3 hours ago, AndyB said:

I started to write a piece on how I've been attacking the layout's snagging list.

 

Suffice to say whilst running different locos I'm finding track where fishplates have not been fitted (by me) correctly, soldered joints that used too much soldered and cause rough rolling, the occasional short and fine plastic detailing parts snagging on servo wires.

 

But instead here's a pile of wiring that needs a good tidying up!  It's certainly  a target rich environment with plenty of opportunities to shorten cables and fix them together and secure them in place.

 

The servo control boards are particularly busy areas with cables for both switches and motors.

 

 

I know this is the boring bit.

But I think getting it nice and tidy will help with long-term satisfaction with the layout.

 

Cheers. Andy

 

Wow!  I hope you like / understand wiring better than I do - a lot better (after all, this is not an overly complicated layout, at least not on top).  Hope it goes OK, Keith.

[AndyB]

3 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Wow!  I hope you like / understand wiring better than I do - a lot better (after all, this is not an overly complicated layout, at least not on top).  Hope it goes OK, Keith.

 

It's actually quite simple.

 

A mains wire to carry the ~13 V AC from the DCC power supply along the length of the layout and Fiddle Yard.

 

Red and black twisted dropper wires to each piece of track.

 

3 wires to each servo motor going back to the Megapoints control board.

 

A wire for each servo motor from the Megapoints control board to the mimic panel switch plus a 5V line.

 

There's actuslky two mimic panels and two Megapoints control boards.

 

For each servo motor there's a contact switch and 3 wires (red, black and white) to control the polarity of the frog.

 

Various D connectors and push fit choc block connectors to take power and signals across baseboard joins.

 

Still to do are wires to power and control the (future) Dapol junction signal.

 

And also power and take a signal from the Fiddle Yard CCTV camera.

 

That's the technical answer.

 

The possibly more interesting answer is that it takes me back over 30 years to the lab bench.  Happy days and great memories. 

[AndyB]

Well this is a first. I don't recall building a layout where I've got as far as thinking about a timetable....

 

As "testing" continues I've started to allocate trains into sidings of the FY to map on to a timetable service I'm hoping to run. 

So far...

1. Branch line service, aka the Bordon Rocket / Bentley Flyer. M7 + 2 coaches. 2 return trips per hour.

2. UP Hourly electric train service (AON --> WAT), stopping BTY. 4-CEP for now.

3. DOWN Hourly electric train service (WAT --> AON), stopping BTY. 4-CEP for now.

4. DOWN Mid-morning parcels train (WOK -> AON), N class Mogul.

5. Pick-up goods train. 

6. DOWNTroop train Aldershot -> Southampton / Diverted express Waterloo -> Weymouth...

 

Service #1, #4 and #6

 

Service EMU #2, #3 & FREIGHT #5

 

And already its starting to get complex. 

 

For example to save FY space for a more interesting train I'm only using one of my 4-CEPs. But that means for one of the 2 proposed services it'll need to propel a 4-coach train round some fairly tight curves. Hmm.

 

Next, for each train that appears "on scene" there's quite a lot of points in the FY to be switched. On reflection I could have used the memory function on the servo controllers to set up routes for the most freque train movements. I could still do that as a future improvement.

 

Also I could have put green / red LEDs into the mimic board to give a positive indication of point settings. Relying on the position of a toggle switch is not a long term solution. 

Again I can add these in later.

 

One thing I read recently was a couple of peoples' pet hates of trains arriving at a terminus and instantly reversing with no consideration of what tasks the driver would need to do. I have to say on this layout it's taking me some time to set all the points correctly in between trains. So no danger of instantly reversing a train!

 

FY mimic board - could do with route indicator LEDs.

 

 

I've also got other locos to include which will fill up the FY still further. So much fun yet to be had!

[AndyB]

Time for an update, methinks.

Radio silence over the kast couple of weeks has been whilst I finished testing watching trains go by, fabricating the removable backscenes and weathering track.

 

Testing was very satisfying watching steam locos pull various rakes of coaches, branchline trains and wagons. This took longer than I thought as it was just nice watching them stretch their legs doing lap after lap....

(I really should investigate how to create some YouTube content).

 

 

Backscenes were a combination of plywood with a frame to keep it straight and double layered mountboard where it needs to curve. Two coats of Gesso were used to prepare them for painting the backscene.

 

Finally I've weathered the track. One coat of grey primer and 24 hours later a coat of sleeper grime. Thanks to everyone who has previously shared their experience of track weathering. As ever RMweb is a mine of expertise.

 

 

Noting that the aerosols have "cumulative" detrimental effects I purchased a P3 protective mask. This one had a good seal and was really comfortable for the hour I wore it. I think my record is 48 hours in a full respiratory mask, so in comparison it's (literally) no sweat protecting yourself from the kinds of aerosol paints we use. I think a £20 investment to protect your health has to be the best money you can spend! 

 

 

So. What's next?

 

With the Bank Holiday weekend coming up it's a great opportunity to start putting in the terrain profiles. Move over Slartibartfast!

 

And I've not forgotten that the reversing camera needs to be wired up using the same 12V DC supply that'll power the semaphore bracket signal. 

 

So there should be plenty to show you on my next update.

 

Thanks for reading. Andy

[AndrueC]

This was the mask I bought. Probably not something I should wear in public.

 

Edited May 1 by AndrueC

[njee20]

Had somehow missed this thread, but good to read through it; it’s a lovely looking layout!

 

I totally understand your tribulations with Finetrax point work. Whilst I have a stalled project where I’ve used some of their (original ‘pegged’) turnouts, I’ve been progressing another layout doing as Woodenhead suggested - 2mm SA components to build copper clad point work to N gauge standards, in my case combined with Easitrac 2mm plain track. Shalln’t spam your thread with photos, I ought start my own!  
 

I do enjoy playing with track, so don’t mind poring over a particular turnout, but it can be frustrating. One of the big annoyances I’ve yet to overcome is how to lay the code 40 track nice and smoothly. It’s so flexible it just wants to wiggle subtly the whole time, which totally compromises the look! The lure of Peco is strong at times and given it’s not the bit you enjoy that sounds like a great decision. 
 

I also sympathise on the Megapoints/servo stuff. I had loads of problems with spontaneous twitching damaging bits. I settled on using 1mm earth cable (out of twin and earth, the other wires providing the bus), because it has next to no elasticity, a sudden twitch just distorts the wire, without ripping a delicate turnout to pieces! I’ve opted for MTB MP1 motors on the new project, but have reused a few servos as I had so many (only on Peco points in the fiddle yard, mind!). I was setting them up this afternoon, and the irritations of several years ago came flooding back, plus ça change! 

[AndyB]

12 hours ago, AndrueC said:

This was the mask I bought. Probably not something I should wear in public.

 

 

 

 

[AndyB]

@njee20 thanks for taking the time to read my layout thread and adding a comnent.

I also found the Code 40 had a mind of its own. I did my best to straighten it using a thin steel rule. But it was a blessed relief to revert to Peco Code 55.

 

For me the epiphany was seeing an N gauge layout at the Basingstoke show that used Peco Code 55 but with great care taken over ballasting. And I felt if my track looked as good as that then I'd be more than happy.

 

 

I'm also very interested in @woodenhead's approach and would definitely like to hear more about that as I'd like to try it out on a micro layout sonetime. 

 

Re the Megapoints those are generally behaving. Although in the FY I could have simply used solenoids. Hey-ho, you live and learn. 

Andy

[lmsforever]

17 hours ago, AndrueC said:

This was the mask I bought. Probably not something I should wear in public.

 

Men from outer space have landed  !!!