Fireman on the Footplate (as was back in time) or Stoker?

[Ken.W]

On 28/04/2023 at 19:29, Wickham Green too said:

You sure it's not a fireperson ? ...... dealing with flammable - or is that inflammable things !

 

I definitely remember the the historical name for those employed to put fires out being fireman, they've now become firefighters since they (allegedly by some news reports) became PC.

 

On the railways, here at least, its always a been fireman, so at the same time you had some fireman employed to keep fires going, and others employed to put them out.

 

I've a feeling though, did the Americans call their (railway) fireman stokers?

After all, they didn't know the difference between a Driver and an Engineer either 

[Tom Burnham]

I believe in French a locomotive fireman is a chauffeur, which you might expect to be a driver, given the use of the word for someone employed to drive a car. I think an engine driver in French is a mecanicien, which on the face of it sounds like a mechanic.  I guess that may reflect what I've read was the higher level of technical training enjoyed by French loco crews back in the day.

[RichardT]

21 hours ago, Ken.W said:

've a feeling though, did the Americans call their (railway) fireman stokers?

After all, they didn't know the difference between a Driver and an Engineer either 

No, it’s a fireman in the US too, although a mechanical fireman is called a mechanical stoker, controlled by the human fireman.

 

An Engineer is someone in charge of the Engine, so perfectly logical. A driver is someone in charge of a team of horses, so the British usage is by analogy rather than nelogism, as is often the difference between US English and English English.

 

Richard

Edited May 1, 2023 by RichardT
Spelling

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, Tom Burnham said:

I believe in French a locomotive fireman is a chauffeur, which you might expect to be a driver, given the use of the word for someone employed to drive a car. I think an engine driver in French is a mecanicien, which on the face of it sounds like a mechanic.  I guess that may reflect what I've read was the higher level of technical training enjoyed by French loco crews back in the day.

'Chauffeur' is someone who is engaged in generating heat; it's the use of the word for the driver of a road vehicle that is anomalous. 'Mechanician' is indeed the usual term for a driver in French. There  is also a term ' aide de conduit' to cover what was termed 'second-man' in the UK.

[The Stationmaster]

22 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

'Chauffeur' is someone who is engaged in generating heat; it's the use of the word for the driver of a road vehicle that is anomalous. 'Mechanician' is indeed the usual term for a driver in French. There  is also a term ' aide de conduit' to cover what was termed 'second-man' in the UK.

And on SNCF the Driver of an electric train or autorail is a Conducteur. (so presumably is the Driver of a diesel.  Mecanicien was in any case the short version of the full French term which was'mecanicien de la locomotive'

[Fat Controller]

23 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

And on SNCF the Driver of an electric train or autorail is a Conducteur. (so presumably is the Driver of a diesel.  Mecanicien was in any case the short version of the full French term which was'mecanicien de la locomotive'

To further muddy the waters, I believe that Parisian Metro drivers were referred to as 'Motor-men'

[Dagworth]

6 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

To further muddy the waters, I believe that Parisian Metro drivers were referred to as 'Motor-men'

As were drivers of EMUs on the Southern Railway here

 

Andi

[Fat Controller]

3 minutes ago, Dagworth said:

As were drivers of EMUs on the Southern Railway here

 

Andi

I should have clarified; they actually used the term in English, in deference to the American involvement in constructing the Metro.

[Tom Burnham]

53 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

To further muddy the waters, I believe that Parisian Metro drivers were referred to as 'Motor-men'

And some Belgian trams used to have a warning by the driver's position "Ne pas parler au Wattman".

[melmerby]

3 minutes ago, Tom Burnham said:

And some Belgian trams used to have a warning by the driver's position "Ne pas parler au Wattman".

You mean they were steam driven?😁

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Fat Controller said:

'Chauffeur' is someone who is engaged in generating heat; it's the use of the word for the driver of a road vehicle that is anomalous.

It was originally used (en français) to describe the person in charge of a steam car, so was correct.

[The Stationmaster]

23 hours ago, melmerby said:

It was originally used (en français) to describe the person in charge of a steam car, so was correct.

Actually French had two versions of the use of the word chauffer one being, in full, chauffeur de locomotve and the other being, in full, chauffeur d'automobile.  The latter translating. into English as either chauffeur (of a car) or driver of a car.  

 

The French had no distinction regarding the mode of producing power in a car and of course the railway usage preceded the emergence of self-propelled road vehicles by a considerable period.

[Buhar]

In Istanbul the tram drivers are a Vatman and I think the same applies to metro drivers. Train drivers in Turkey are Mekanist. If I get the chance I will ask around. French influence was strong around the late Ottoman period although the Germans built a lot of the lines.

Alan 

[Forward!]

Worth pointingout that the RN used the term stoker, and the merchant service used fireman.

 

But the firemen worked down in what was always known as the stokehold. And in the later steam age their work was regulated by mechanical aids including the infamous Kilroy stoking indicator. To firemen, stoking was simply a verb. Stoking was part of a fireman's duties, but it wasn't a definition of his role.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Forward!