Detection - for a reverse loop

[jaym481]

Something occurred to me to ask, as I'm in the process of redoing some wiring with an eye to future automation, and am intending to replace my AR1 reverse loop module with a Digikeijs DR5013, with detection provided by a Yamorc YD6016LN. I plan to use full fat detection, rather than rely on short circuit reversing, and it just occurred to me to ask what happens with a train that has an end vehicle that will be detected? For example, a train of lit coaches will have the locomotive picked up by detection, but lit vehicles and those with resistors on the wheelsets are also picked up. Will that "confuse" the reversing module if it's relying on detection to switch the polarity?

[ITG]

You may be fortunate to source a DR5013, as it has been reported on this forum Digikejis have filed for bankruptcy. Certainly in UK, their products are very hard to find. I too needed a reverse loop module capable of working with detection, and found this.

https://www.dcctrainautomation.co.uk/lodi-ksm-reverse-loop-module-for-digital-railways.html

Not yet set up, so cannot comment, but it came highly recommended, for use with current sensing detectors. When I purchased it, James at DCC Train Automation knew I was using iTrain, and thus very likely to be using some stock with current draw, be it lights or resistors. No connection with the retailer other than satisfied customer.

I have no hands-on experience - yet - with the scenario you describe, so will be interested in any responses.

Ian

 

[WIMorrison]

The unit quoted above will work after the current sensing module you are using, thus only needing a single feedback. Other products available draw too much current and would show permanent occupancy and need to be placed before the current sensing unit, thus becoming rather expensive if you only need a single feedback.

[franciswilliamwebb]

6 hours ago, jaym481 said:

Will that "confuse" the reversing module if it's relying on detection to switch the polarity?

 

No.  The reversing module will only get confused if the train is too long to fit in the reversing section and thus the front and rearmost current collecting vehicles are both telling it to change over at the same time.

 

If your whole train fits in the reversing section everything works as it should, even if the last vehicle is a current collector.

[two tone green]

I have the Lodi-KSM reverse loop module for use on my turntable and with block occupancy  for Train Controller. 
 

If you model 7mm tell James at DCC automation as you need the higher ampage version for 7mm. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by two tone green

[jaym481]

12 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

The unit quoted above will work after the current sensing module you are using, thus only needing a single feedback. Other products available draw too much current and would show permanent occupancy and need to be placed before the current sensing unit, thus becoming rather expensive if you only need a single feedback.

I specifically chose the Yamorc unit because it has the same characteristics as the Digieijs one. Karst kindly confirmed that it would work in exactly the configuration shown in the 5013 manual.

[jaym481]

11 hours ago, franciswilliamwebb said:

 

No.  The reversing module will only get confused if the train is too long to fit in the reversing section and thus the front and rearmost current collecting vehicles are both telling it to change over at the same time.

 

If your whole train fits in the reversing section everything works as it should, even if the last vehicle is a current collector.

This is the answer I was hoping for, and to be honest, I should have been able to figure it out for myself now that I see it in writing and think it through. Thank you.

Edited May 4, 2023 by jaym481

[WIMorrison]

17 minutes ago, jaym481 said:

I specifically chose the Yamorc unit because it has the same characteristics as the Digieijs one. Karst kindly confirmed that it would work in exactly the configuration shown in the 5013 manual.

YAMORC do not not have an auto-reversing module for sale yet, also I was talking about the Lodi KSM module in the previous post.

 

the DR5013 is an expensive way to get a reverse loop

Edited May 4, 2023 by WIMorrison

[jaym481]

28 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

YAMORC do not not have an auto-reversing module for sale yet, also I was talking about the Lodi KSM module in the previous post.

 

the DR5013 is an expensive way to get a reverse loop

I thought you were talking about the sensor module. I didn't read the post prior to yours carefully as my quick scan showed it wasn't addressing my question. 

 

What would you recommend as a less expensive option for a reverse loop that doesn't involve functioning on a short? I have used Digitrax AR1, which are relatively inexpensive, and more readily available where I am than some of the more exotic European items. I was hoping to get away from that sort of mode of operation.

[WIMorrison]

The previous post to mine was answering your question, and was completely correct. Digikeijs is bankrupt and closed, all Digikeijs stock is now at a premium price (why, I don't know) if you can find it new that is, and rarely does it appear second hand. I sold my 2 x DR5013 a couple of years ago to the predecessor of the Lodi KSM module as it works correctly and doesn't trigger the feedback sensors when in use and the reverse block is empty - all other reverse loop modules I have tried to show occupancy, even when empty.

 

Why did I get rid of the DR5013? I binned them because of a known issue with the current provision which required components on the board to be changed to ensure that all locos travelled at full speed when in the DR5013 sections. I have 5 auto-reverse units, all using short-circuit and they all work perfectly, I don't see the need for ones that use sensor switching when the electronic short circuit detection is instantaneous and 100% reliable, unlike the old magnetic relay short circuit units.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

Digikeijs is bankrupt and closed, all Digikeijs stock is now at a premium price (why, I don't know)

Because everything shows out of stock?

 

The website really ought to be closed down.

Edited May 4, 2023 by melmerby

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

all other reverse loop modules I have tried to show occupancy, even when empty

The LDT one doesn't, they go after the current sense unit.

[jaym481]

Ok, regarding Digikeijs' (of which I am aware) closure the point is moot. I have the 5013s in hand, have had them for a while now, and did not pay a premium price. I should probably have made that clear in the OP.

 

I guess I'll just see if it works then. At least the question I asked was answered.

Edited May 4, 2023 by jaym481

[jaym481]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

The LDT one doesn't, they go after the current sense unit.

Thank you for the pointer to the Littfinski unit. While I've heard of the company I hadn't really looked into what they have.