Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0-Gauge, Chapter 2

[Nearholmer]

“But most of all I believe that it is fun to build, own and operate a model railway, whether it be a fine scale super detail effort in an air conditioned room built especially to hold it, or a glorified tinplate affair that has an occasional right of way in the corner of the sitting room when the wife is out. I don't believe it is a grimly serious affair that calls for long faces and earnest sessions with slide rule and micro-meter. I don't believe that everyone necessarily wants to turn out first class models, or to be more explicit, wants to take the necessary effort that first class models entail”

 

So said CJF when setting out his stall shortly after taking over editorship of Railway Modeller. 

[Hroth]

My approach to railway modelling exactly!

 

Or not "exactly", if you get my drift...  🤪

 

[John R Smith]

 

Well, yes, and CJF was well-known for his point of view on these issues. I think that in some ways it was a question of putting some distance between the Railway Modeller and the MRN, particularly when the 4mm world was caught up in controversy with ever finer scale / gauge ratios as the 60s and 70s wore on.

 

I think that where Cyril missed the point is that it really does not have to be either / or. Plenty of folks have had finescale indoors and a fun layout in the garden, or like Iain Rice finescale downstairs and Hornby-Dublo in the loft. I have been modelling finescale 'O' for fifty years, on and off, but I have had a lot of fun layouts on the side as time went on, in all scales from N to Gauge One. The latest being my Coarse Scale O Gauge effort, of course.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by John R Smith

[Nearholmer]

46 minutes ago, John R Smith said:

have been modelling finescale 'O' for fifty years, on and off, but I have had a lot of fun layouts on the side

So, the fine scale ones weren’t fun?

 

Just teasing.

[John R Smith]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

So, the fine scale ones weren’t fun?

 

 

Well, fair enough, that is not a silly question. I suppose the evasive answer is that they are fun, of course, but in a rather different way. In anything like P4, finescale O or S7 you are setting yourself a very high bar - just exactly how high is a matter of personal choice. And the old masters are looking over your shoulder, people like Norris, Geoff Williams and all. The fun part, or satisfaction, comes from having actually (for once) achieved the standards you have set yourself. Then you move on, to a slightly higher goal, perhaps.

 

What those sorts of "serious" railways are not, is recreational. Recreational in the sense that our outdoor O gauge line was just that at the club, back in South Devon the early 1960s. There, on a warm sumer evening all sorts of trains ran, some slow, some quite fast, mostly clockwork but some live steam. My Father and his close friend Graham would be raising steam at the terminus down beyond the woodland middle station where I was in charge. Soon a B-L "Enterprise" would come charging up the gradient, pass me so quickly that I would have no chance to arrest its progress, run up around the return loop and reappear downhill at supersonic velocity only to derail catastrophically at my station turnouts. Wagons and locomotive would be spread across all the tracks and down the embankment, with burning meths adding to the chaos. Strangely enough, my Father and Graham found this a matter of great hilarity and before long they were plotting to repeat the whole dreadful experience, only this time with the Bowman which was even less controllable and also resulted in burnt fingers and much cursing. Strangely enough, we all went home tired but happy and eager to repeat the experience in the following week.

 

I have to admit to you all that I have never had fun like that on any of my finescale railways, before or since.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by John R Smith

[Nearholmer]

MetH and I went to a village hall gathering of old toy train enthusiasts (in both senses) yesterday. Not a great photo, but I was impressed by this Hornby first-generation footbridge; it is huge! The steps are so wide it looks as if one could walk up it in reality.

 

[Ben B]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

MetH and I went to a village hall gathering of old toy train enthusiasts (in both senses) yesterday. Not a great photo, but I was impressed by this Hornby first-generation footbridge; it is huge! The steps are so wide it looks as if one could walk up it in reality.

 

 

Don't think I've ever seen one of those footbridges before. It is rather impressive, does it use some shared components with Meccano? Looking at the holes on the lattice section.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Ben B
Spelling

[Nearholmer]

I hadn’t seen one in the flesh, only in catalogue/advert pictures, and yes, it is Meccano compatible, like all the very early Hornby Series.

 

Speaking of which, I’ve been delving in the “clockwork drawer”, and first up is this, which is an OK-ish resto bought at a good price vis eBay. Runs very well.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

Now this enormous beast, which unfortunately won’t run through my point-work. It is a Walker-Fenn, c1930, with the gramophone type governor, and like all of that kind it is incredibly controllable, it will crawl along very smoothly. It originally belonged to one R Hinson of Ford Close, Harrow, who seems to have left it behind on the railway at Bryanston School in Dorset, where it sat until the remnants of that were auctioned off only c5 years ago. Completely original except possibly the couplings.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

I showed the Van Riemsdiyk 4-4-4T earlier, and this is what came between the W-F and that, a Walker-Riemsdiyk loco, with speed control by pressure on the end of the governor shaft. It’s got a very worn winding arbor socket, and the paintwork really needs to be stripped and re-done.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

Nearly to the bottom of the drawer now, and this loco is the opposite to the W-F: completely wild!

 

It’s a B-L standard 0-4-0T, which they only made for a couple of years in the late 1930s. This one originally belonged to a lad called Arthur Walkden, who wrote his name in a neat, but clearly very junior, hand on the box.

 

[Schooner]

It is possible not to adore any 0-4-0 with 4-wheel tender?

 

What a glorious collection :) I hope that drawer has industrial-strength runners! Also very much enjoyed the little snippets of personal history attached to the W-F and B-L, thanks for sharing.

[Ben B]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

Nearly to the bottom of the drawer now, and this loco is the opposite to the W-F: completely wild!

 

It’s a B-L standard 0-4-0T, which they only made for a couple of years in the late 1930s. This one originally belonged to a lad called Arthur Walkden, who wrote his name in a neat, but clearly very junior, hand on the box.

 

 

That is absaloutely what I love about tinplate trains... the ones that survive in good condition, made to last as they were, have clearly been cared for by 1,2,3 previous owners. I have a Hornby BR black tender loco which I got stupidly cheap... it's in slightly worn, but overall very good condition. A previous owner, or several, clearly liked it enough to look after it. I think it lifts it above being a mere, mass-produced toy train, if that makes sense :)

[Nearholmer]

I said that the W-F came from the Bryanston school model railway, the V-R 4-4-4T too. Well, I did a quick google, and here is part of that railway and some of its operators. It looks as if it had outside third and overhead electrification, as well as clockwork power.

 

 

 

I know the railway was started in 1937, and from what I can work out it ceased to be used in the late 60s or early 70s, when everything was packed away in boxes filled with wood straw, it was the auctioned in 2015 IIRC.

 

Well, according to this source, the railway was started by J I C Boyd no less, and dismantled in 1946, although I’m pretty sure that date is wrong - maybe the author is misremembering a rebuild, as he misremembers the gauge. 
The Boyd bit seems correct though, because one obituary says:

 

With railways in his genes, the young James was an enthusiastic train spotter from the age of 10, founding the railway society at his school, Bryanston in Dorset. 
 

Here’s other stuff that I dug up last time I looked at this topic:

 

“James Ian Craig Boyd was born in Cheshire on July 31 1921. He completed his schooling at Bryanston, where he spent as much time as possible on the nearby Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway and founded the school's railway society, which visited engine sheds under the supervision of the history master.”

 

Regarding J B Snell:

“I first met John a few days after my arrival at Bryanston in May 1946, very appropriately in the Model Railway Club located in an attic in the Portman roof. He had come in September 1945, together with Sam Cruikshank (C ‘50) and Christian Strover (H ‘50) and together with several others over the next five years we built a very extensive O gauge layout. John designed it and laid most of the track; unusually it had an overhead system to power the locomotives, some of which he designed and built himself.”

 

“On arrival at Bryanston he found a gauge one layout in the attic that had been built by J.I.C. (Jimmy) Boyd, a pupil in the early thirties. He, like John, later became an author and expert on the narrow gauge railways of North Wales. I remember the last vestiges of his layout being taken up in May 1946.”

 

This gives us a G1 layout started by Boyd in the 1930s, succeeded by a G0 layout. All that I’ve seen that is linked to Bryanston is G0*, much of it is a great deal older than late-1940s, so possibly pupils brought old material from home, or possibly some of the masters contributed old material (might R Hinson of Harrow been a Master, first at one school then the other?), as is often the way with school layouts. 
 

*No! I’ve just remembered that I was offered a huge Gauge 1 LNWR tank engine, I think a 4-6-2T, at the same time as the ones I bought, and that came from there too.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

I put my elder daughter, who has lately got into genealogy, onto R Hinson of 14 Ford Close, Harrow, first owner of the W-F, and she’s found him: Reginald Morley Hinson, a buyer of soft furnishings and linens in the 1930s, born 1891 and served in the Royal Flying Corps during WW1, so an adult enthusiast, which fits with a well-governed loco. He had a son, but not the right age to have been at Bryanston School in the 0 gauge period, so how the loco got there, with the lid of the box recording it’s first owner, we shall probably never know!

[RateTheFreight]

On a slight deviation of topic, does anyone know what’s happened to the Maldon track website? It seems to have disappeared which is most unfortunate timing! 
 

G 

[Nearholmer]

I spoke with Ron about if some weeks ago, and he said that it was a web-software problem, nothing deeper, so maybe give him a call?

 

Also, PM me for some info.

[Donw]

On 13/11/2023 at 13:24, John R Smith said:

 

Well, yes, and CJF was well-known for his point of view on these issues. I think that in some ways it was a question of putting some distance between the Railway Modeller and the MRN, particularly when the 4mm world was caught up in controversy with ever finer scale / gauge ratios as the 60s and 70s wore on.

 

I think that where Cyril missed the point is that it really does not have to be either / or. Plenty of folks have had finescale indoors and a fun layout in the garden, or like Iain Rice finescale downstairs and Hornby-Dublo in the loft. I have been modelling finescale 'O' for fifty years, on and off, but I have had a lot of fun layouts on the side as time went on, in all scales from N to Gauge One. The latest being my Coarse Scale O Gauge effort, of course.

 

 

 

I think when Cyril made those comments building even one layout took some effort and buying models was a problem with supply. Whereas today you can walk out of a model shop with all you need for a layout. 

 

Don 

[Nearholmer]

True, but I can’t quite see how that is relevant to the point that he’s making, which seems to me to be about the difference between enjoying something, and getting far too earnest about that same something. 
 

As he says:

 

On 13/11/2023 at 12:48, Nearholmer said:

I don't believe it is a grimly serious affair that calls for long faces

There are a few people who manage to produce superb feats of craftsmanship or artistry while radiating joy, but there seem to be more who make producing fine craftsmanship look like a self-imposed ascetic ordeal. The latter sort presumably derive some satisfaction from it, otherwise they wouldn’t do it, but they certainly don’t radiate joy. Then there is a third class of person, who produces less and less, to greater and greater degrees of precision, until eventually they are producing nothing at all to absolute perfection.

 

Each to his own.

[Ben B]

4 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I said that the W-F came from the Bryanston school model railway, the V-R 4-4-4T too. Well, I did a quick google, and here is part of that railway and some of its operators. It looks as if it had outside third and overhead electrification, as well as clockwork power.

 

 

 

I know the railway was started in 1937, and from what I can work out it ceased to be used in the late 60s or early 70s, when everything was packed away in boxes filled with wood straw, it was the auctioned in 2015 IIRC.

 

Well, according to this source, the railway was started by J I C Boyd no less, and dismantled in 1946, although I’m pretty sure that date is wrong - maybe the author is misremembering a rebuild, as he misremembers the gauge. 
The Boyd bit seems correct though, because one obituary says:

 

With railways in his genes, the young James was an enthusiastic train spotter from the age of 10, founding the railway society at his school, Bryanston in Dorset. 
 

Here’s other stuff that I dug up last time I looked at this topic:

 

“James Ian Craig Boyd was born in Cheshire on July 31 1921. He completed his schooling at Bryanston, where he spent as much time as possible on the nearby Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway and founded the school's railway society, which visited engine sheds under the supervision of the history master.”

 

Regarding J B Snell:

“I first met John a few days after my arrival at Bryanston in May 1946, very appropriately in the Model Railway Club located in an attic in the Portman roof. He had come in September 1945, together with Sam Cruikshank (C ‘50) and Christian Strover (H ‘50) and together with several others over the next five years we built a very extensive O gauge layout. John designed it and laid most of the track; unusually it had an overhead system to power the locomotives, some of which he designed and built himself.”

 

“On arrival at Bryanston he found a gauge one layout in the attic that had been built by J.I.C. (Jimmy) Boyd, a pupil in the early thirties. He, like John, later became an author and expert on the narrow gauge railways of North Wales. I remember the last vestiges of his layout being taken up in May 1946.”

 

This gives us a G1 layout started by Boyd in the 1930s, succeeded by a G0 layout. All that I’ve seen that is linked to Bryanston is G0*, much of it is a great deal older than late-1940s, so possibly pupils brought old material from home, or possibly some of the masters contributed old material (might R Hinson of Harrow been a Master, first at one school then the other?), as is often the way with school layouts. 
 

*No! I’ve just remembered that I was offered a huge Gauge 1 LNWR tank engine, I think a 4-6-2T, at the same time as the ones I bought, and that came from there too.

 

 

That layout looks amazing... I'd love something like that, filling the loft :)  And particularly the innovative electric locomotives... there's always been something fascinating to me about non-steam prototypes in amongst all the clockwork tank engines and things. It's interesting to speculate on if Hornby might have done a clockwork, 4-wheeled 08 or 04 diesel shunter if they'd kept the range going a bit longer...

[Donw]

My point was simply that when Cyril took over the options of a second line as light relief was  less practical than today   and any layout build was longer so you really needed to be enjoying the build whereas today there is so much help that even if something seems a bit of a slog it is completed much quicker. Having a lifetime 'great project' and lots of short 'fun' layouts is much easier today. Mind you even now a lot of 'great projects' seem prone to falter even today.

Don 

[Nearholmer]

37 minutes ago, Ben B said:

It's interesting to speculate on if Hornby might have done a clockwork, 4-wheeled 08 or 04 diesel shunter if they'd kept the range going a bit longer...

French Hornby kept 0 afloat tiny bit longer, even if it was a bit like S scale in 32mm gauge track,  produced two very nice electric locos, and used the demon plastic for line-side buildings and some rolling stock, but I certainly pine for a coarse scale EE350 (I’ve got an 03), even getting to the stage of investigating the feasibility of en-coarsening a Dapol one. Only Lionel make one, but a (a) it’s got a face, and (b) it’s got no outside cranks or rods.

 

32 minutes ago, Donw said:

a second line as light relief was  less practical than today

Ah, I get your point now. Sorry!

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Nearholmer

[Ben B]

9 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

French Hornby kept 0 afloat tiny bit longer, even if it was a bit like S scale in 32mm gauge track,  produced two very nice electric locos, and used the demon plastic for line-side buildings and some rolling stock, but I certainly pine for a coarse scale EE350 (I’ve got an 03), even getting to the stage of investigating the feasibility of en-coarsening a Dapol one. Only Lionel make one, but a (a) it’s got a face, and (b) it’s got no outside cranks or rods.

 

Ah, I get your point now. Sorry!

 

 

 

For my project, I'm experimenting with converting a Goldenbear Thomas the Tank Engine "Daisy" into a clockwork Railbus, using Wells Brimtoy underpinnings... it's going to look a bit dinky compared to Hornby 0 stock, but it's looking ok at the moment alongside the Bing stock on my micro layout.

 

I didn't realise the Lionel Diesel had no outside frames... again, I have a Bachmann G gauge diesel to convert into a 'kind of' 08 for my garden line. I'm laser-cutting bonnet doors and things for it in 1mm acrylic, but it's very much a slow burn project. A coarse 0 350hp shunter would be a seller surely, for a loco still going strong in it's 7th or 8th decade, especially as variants were sold overseas too.

 

I suppose the problem is "train set= steam engine", something you still see with toy makers. And I've read how much hostility there was to the nasty new diesels in the 50's and 60's as the beloved steam locos were replaced, so maybe there wouldn't be a market for tinplate diesels at the time...

[Nearholmer]

10 minutes ago, Ben B said:

so maybe there wouldn't be a market for tinplate diesels at the time...

Titfield Thunderbolt, the start of the preservation movement, Duck and the Diesel, the inexorable rise of the sentimentalist tendency in railway enthusiasm …… no, there wouldn’t.

 

There were a tiny few, very good,  EE350 models made by Bonds, I think immediately pre-war, and Bernard Ridgeley made a quite large number about 20 years ago, but his looked a bit Triang, with inside frames.

 

It is the Great Missing Loco from the revival, with all its Dublo aesthetic.

 

 

 

[Annie]

39 minutes ago, Ben B said:

I didn't realise the Lionel Diesel had no outside frames...

I picked up one of those for cheap and liberated the mech out of it with the intention of using it to repower the remains of a down on its luck Leeds Model Co six coupled loco.  I consider it no crime at all to saw up something so hideous.