How common were loco changes en route in the diesel era?

[Andy Kirkham]

20 hours ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

Less seems to have been written about what happened at Swansea, when trains reversed. Presumably, due to the proximity of Landore (and the layout of High St station), locos were changed, rather than run-round.

Presumably, Thousands worked trains down from Padd, then Hymeks continued the journey west of Swansea. 

Yes, I travellled a couple of times on the 01:10 Bristol - Milford Haven. In 1973, as I recall, it started off with a Western; changed for a 37 at Cardiff, then another 37 at Swansea

[AMJ]

On 27/05/2023 at 13:25, Mark Saunders said:

Driver’s traction knowledge is a factor in booked locomotive swaps. 

Often this would keep most regional specific locos within the operational area for many of the long haul trains.  I have heard of train departing Cornwall/Devon with a 50 then changed enroute.

 

In the 1980's I had a few rovers and caught a train from Penzance to Plymouth which had 2*50's on.  A group of spotters decided to get on there only for the lead loco to be taken off.  Looked like double headed over the Cornish hills.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Apart from the LMR changing locos at Crewe, during the period when diesel-hydraulics worked the West of England to North West trains via Hereford, locos would be changed at Crewe. In the early 60s, these would've largely been "Warships".

[Charles]

On 29/05/2023 at 16:52, Nearholmer said:

Has anybody mentioned the use of Class 50 to complete the trip from Euston to Glasgow until wiring was complete?

What an odd question.

 

Surely we should be asking about motive power on the journey from Glasgow to Euston ??

 

I made that trip with double headed 50's,

in 1971.

 

It was very, very special, particularly in contemplation of, perhaps, seeing my homeland for the last time.

 

In the event, they performed flawlessly.

 

An '86' was substituted at Crewe, and from there on the whole event has been pretty uninspiring. 

 

Yes, all of it.

 

Charles 

 

 

[pH]

On 28/05/2023 at 04:21, Peter Eaton said:

There usually was a Peak on the middle road for the Northern express change around for London & vice versa, on the MML via Trent.

And, while they still ran, northbound Glasgow trains would then change engines again in the reversal at Leeds.

 

Harrogate portions of trains from Kings Cross would be taken from Leeds to Harrogate by an engine attached to the rear of the train in Leeds. A Deltic on 4 coaches could be interesting.

[KeithHC]

In the early 60s there was a Cliffe Kent to Uddingston cement train. It was operated up the WCML by 33s. I believe these where changed at York.

 

Keith

[Nearholmer]

…… for inferior locomotives.

[stewartingram]

I used to take the annual Merrymaker from Cambridge to Blackpool for the Illuminations. This was normally a 2 part train which combined, usually at Ely (or March?), where one of the separate Brush 2 locos continued. Doncaster was the next change - I remember to Jubilee 45562 Alberta one year. The next year we were looking forward to what we would get there. However, our train loco from Cambridge (D5616, my last cop on that day in the D5500-5699 series!) took the combined train right through to Blackpool! From memory I think it was 13-14 coaches too! Our faithful friend never let us down.

[Matt37268]

There were still changes to traction quite late on, my brothers train to Uni in Cov from  Shrewsbury under Virgin WC was supposed to be booked to change at Wolverhampton even as late as 2000/ 2001 although I believe it wasn’t uncommon for the Spoon to carry on to Euston, vice the 86/87.

 

From my own experience I can recall having a 47711 swapped over for 47712 at New Street during the August Bank Holiday Sunday during 1999, whilst working up from Bristol towards Newcastle.

1V96 was could always produce something rather interesting during the early days of Cross Country as well… 😜

 

[jjb1970]

In BR days they tried to use electric locomotives under the wires, so locomotive changes between diesel and electric traction were common. Examples included Stranraer services at Carlisle, Euston - Blackpool and Scotland - Liverpool/Manchester services at Preston.

[guzzler17]

On 30/05/2023 at 12:43, AMJ said:

In the 1980's I had a few rovers and caught a train from Penzance to Plymouth which had 2*50's on.  A group of spotters decided to get on there only for the lead loco to be taken off.  Looked like double headed over the Cornish hills.

 

Could be a simple way of getting an engine back to Laira for an exam?

[guzzler17]

On 27/05/2023 at 22:30, Nearholmer said:

Mystex etc could go either way, with locomotive changes or locos or DEMUs working way off region, famously to Spalding flower show by Hastings units.

 

Talking of the Spalding Flower Festival in 1982 both ADEX's from south of the Thames changed to ER power at Liverpool Street.  There's a picture somewhere of both Cromptons stabled at Liverpool Street during the day.

 

Sadly for me they didn't swap diagrams so I didn't have 33025 back to Kent, had to make do with HG based 33065.

[APOLLO]

Crewe 1970ish. Brush brought us from Wigan, 'Leccy took train on to Euston, quick tour of the works & sheds for us !!

 

 

 

As for breakdowns, these two EE Type 1's at Clay Cross D8076 & D8034

 

 

Rescued our train a bit later and hauled us and our failed Brush 4 D1522 on to Nottingham, 14 Feb 1970

 

 

Can't remember exactly what happened here, both locos brought us from Doncaster to Retford. D1103 was "oozing oil" and the Deltic was put on front at Doncaster.  D9011 + D1103

DMU Retford to Sheffield, quick dash to Vic and home via Woodhead on the last weekend of passenger services.

 

 

 

Ain't our railways boring these days !!

 

Brit15

[Sitham Yard]

Slightly off topic I have a vague memory (as a lot of memories are these days) of an HST power car being changed in a station, I think Edinburgh Waverley. The power car was changed in between booked workings of the unit.

Andrew 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Sitham Yard

[Jim Martin]

Around 1980-82 I used to travel from High Wycombe to Banbury for spotting. I was there one Saturday when a southbound Freightliner and a northbound train that I can't remember swapped locomotives. I think the northbound stopped in the station,  while the containers stopped on the goods line north of the station; then the locomotives were uncoupled and ran up to their new trains, coupled up and set off back in the direction they'd come from. I can't recall the technicalities of how the shunting was carried out. I learned later that this was a timetabled changeover (SO, I think). I have copies of the passenger and freight WTTs for the period, but I don't know where I've put them. I'm pretty sure that the moves are in there.

[GordonC]

2 hours ago, Sitham Yard said:

Slightly off topic I have a vague memory (as a lot of memories are these days) of an HST power car being changed in a station, I think Edinburgh Waverley. The power car was changed in between booked workings of the unit.

Andrew 

 

Pretty sure that will have taken place fairly frequently where there was a fault on a running power car so could have been swapped at places like Edinburgh, Newcastle, Leeds, Doncaster, Kings Cross on the ECML. It would never be planned in advance to take place though and a reaction to a running fault during the day

[PerthBox]

9 hours ago, Sitham Yard said:

Slightly off topic I have a vague memory (as a lot of memories are these days) of an HST power car being changed in a station, I think Edinburgh Waverley. The power car was changed in between booked workings of the unit.

Andrew 

They used to do powercar swaps regularly at the Waverley right up into the GNER era in the mid 2000s. It only stopped because the station got too busy for it.

[LBRJ]

14 hours ago, guzzler17 said:

 

Could be a simple way of getting an engine back to Laira for an exam?

Or just to balance workings.

Two 50s on the Up from Penzance wasn't uncommon.

[adb968008]

As a kid the loco change places I recall were Crewe, Preston, New St and Bristol. The first three mostly AC/Diesel swaps. New St for north / SW loco swaps and AC/Diesel.

 

Reading I recall several times seeing WR 47’s in the centre road, but seem to think runrounds were common.

 

Bristol also I recall some loco changes, from Birmingham to SW services, but less common.

 

Stockport I recall some AC / Diesel loco changes, coming off the Reddish line, usually an 81 or 85.

 

 

 

 

[johnofwessex]

Cardiff to Portsmouth services reversed at Bristol Temple Meads.

 

It could be a ;loco change or a run round but it was almost always a 33 for both legs

[adb968008]

2 minutes ago, johnofwessex said:

Cardiff to Portsmouth services reversed at Bristol Temple Meads.

 

It could be a ;loco change or a run round but it was almost always a 33 for both legs

Unless it was a 33/1 and 4TC

[johnofwessex]

1 minute ago, adb968008 said:

Unless it was a 33/1 and 4TC

 

Not a common ocurrence

[woodenhead]

9 hours ago, adb968008 said:

As a kid the loco change places I recall were Crewe, Preston, New St and Bristol. The first three mostly AC/Diesel swaps. New St for north / SW loco swaps and AC/Diesel.

 

Reading I recall several times seeing WR 47’s in the centre road, but seem to think runrounds were common.

 

Bristol also I recall some loco changes, from Birmingham to SW services, but less common.

 

Stockport I recall some AC / Diesel loco changes, coming off the Reddish line, usually an 81 or 85.

 

 

 

 

Stockport had a very interesting loco change that would leave a Deltic idling in the centre road.

 

I believe it was for the Aberystwyth-York postal and it’s return working.  Rolled past it once on a London bound overnight service and there it was a Deltic in Manchester and this was before they had been cascaded from frontline duties.

[Titan]

On 08/08/2023 at 21:25, PerthBox said:

They used to do powercar swaps regularly at the Waverley right up into the GNER era in the mid 2000s. It only stopped because the station got too busy for it.

 

I believe in the early days there was a service timed for one operational power car which was used as a way to get failures to somewhere they could be fixed - as long as the other one did not break down enroute!

Edited August 9, 2023 by Titan

[18B]

On 27/05/2023 at 09:33, Edwin_m said:

Trains that reversed at New Street probably had a loco change rather than a run-round - most were swapping to/from electric in any case.  I think trains reversing at Gloucester (after closure of Eastgate) sometimes swapped too.  

 

Notingham station also changed Peaks by putting a different one on the other end due a reversal/run round being needed otherwise.