Solid Baseboard Top warping (new wood)

[DCB]

Half a cautionary tale half a request for suggestions.  thirteen years ago father in law built the outside branch, he bought new DIY shop timber about 6" X 1" section laid flat.  It has edging about 6mm thick to keep trains from falling off the edge and has subsequently been reinforced by more timber to form a T section.

Last summer I planed up the humps where the baseboards had warped and levelled up the track.   This week the boards have warped again and left the track like a switchback, unusable as stock uncouples over the humps.  I told him to use  recovered timber old floorboards ideally, but he didn't listen.

So what now.  Rip it up.    Rebuild with proper reclaimed seasoned T section construction.   Rebuild with metal framing, dexion or aluminium with marine ply surface.   or should I bodge it with sand and cement to  level up the track.
I can do the cement Friday, but don't have a source of 6X1 or marine ply or enough metal frames.  Plenty of 4 X 3" ex fence rails.   Ideas please.

See straight edge along the track, looks about 1 in 20

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by DCB

[ITG]

My only experience in the matter of warping (apart from stored self assembly wardrobes!) was using poorly supported (my bracing wasn’t accurate and precise enough) Sundeala.  My own feeling was no matter what I did, I would be fighting against the natural forces of the wood to find its own form. Hence I ditched the lot, and bought laser cut ply, with laser cut ply bracing. No hint of trouble.

bodge/fix/fine tune/tweak… call it what you will. If it works successfully, you can call yourself a genius. If not, you’ll be cursing all the way to the timber merchant to buy new stuff you should have bought in the first place. So my answer ….. replace it.

 

ps . I did also use square section aluminium tubing to brace 9mm ply, for a higher level station board where I needed the clearance given by 25mm aluminium. Worked perfectly.

good luck.

Ian

[Ray H]

Can you screw L section angle to the baseboard edge to help stop it from warping? Like wise, could you secured said angle under the warped baseboard section. Yo can pick up the angle from many DIY stores. I've used aluminium angle but wonder whether steel might be better.

 

Is the board secured on one long edge - in which case you should only need to cure the other long edge.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Once it's started to go this badly there is only one solution, you ain't gonna beat nature!

Use wood made for the outside, decking timbers are probably your best bet, but keep on top of the maintenance.

 

Mike.

[JZ]

I agree with @Enterprisingwestern about using decking timbers, but buy from a good timber merchant rather that a DIY store. Besides, it will probably be cheaper, as well as better quality.

[Mallard60022]

Forget it and use 9 mm Ply. Reinforce underneath with decent Strips EDGE on, as if the Ply is only a foot wide that too will start to go bendy. Go for the open sort of construction shown on many layouts on here.That is unless you want wide parts for (say) Fiddle sidings.

P

[chris p bacon]

As Mike has said “There ain’t no going back for that timber”

 

Any timber you use outside should ideally be suited for the environment (treated) but stock such as fencing rails is made up from the poorest available material and will go the same way.  
 

I’ve thought about doing something fun outside and would look at a composite decking board or a timber decking board covered in ‘torch on’ felt on a metal sub structure such as dexion. 

[Wheatley]

On 22/06/2023 at 13:29, chris p bacon said:

 

I’ve thought about doing something fun outside and would look at a composite decking board

 

See if you can get a sample first. Composite decking is designed to be used flat and clipped to the sub-frame, not screwed to anything. I used some off cuts to make a potting bench top, screws pull straight through it and I ended up using bolts and penny washers to hold it down. Not all composite boards are the same of course. 

 

Edit - my apologies, I hadn't paid attention to who it was I was quoting !  CPB has doubtless far more experience with composite decking than me and my 2 ft square potting bench. 

Edited June 24, 2023 by Wheatley

[Buhar]

24 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

 

See if you can get a sample first. Composite decking is designed to be used flat and clipped to the sub-frame, not screwed to anything. I used some off cuts to make a potting bench top, screws pull straight through it and I ended up using bolts and penny washers to hold it down. Not all composite boards are the same of course. 

An option there is to drill larger holes and plug with resin which you can then pilot to take a screw. I think composite material is the way to go for dimensional stability.

 

For support you could sink some tube into the ground and cut off level for mowing and not tripping. Then a smaller (telescopic) diameter is inserted for set-up. A bit of ingenuity could feature bolts and brackets for levelling in both directions.

 

Alan

[cliff park]

OP says originally made about 13 years ago, I would have thought it's pretty well as seasoned as it is ever going to be. It also looks as though he is talking about warping along the length of the board, not across. This smacks to me of not enough supports. What is the distance between supports, pleae ?

[chris p bacon]

5 hours ago, Wheatley said:

 

 

Edit - my apologies, I hadn't paid attention to who it was I was quoting !  CPB has doubtless far more experience with composite decking than me and my 2 ft square potting bench. 

 
you’re never too old to learn. 🙂

 

I haven’t used it before but know someone who has and has been pleased with it, it was though screwed down to a substantial framework so if I did try it I’d certainly want to see it first in case it us too lightweight 👍

[lofty1966]

Composite decking is bl**dy heavy and I personally wouldn't use it.

It can deform and warp like solid lumber.

Use a decent 9mm (3/8") plywood and brace it on a 2"×1"frame (minimum) every 300mm (12").

Even then you may find it warps but it will be over a long length rather than a spot.

[Ray H]

Birch plywood is recommended by a lot of modellers although it is quite pricy.

 

Have you considered laser cut (to size) MDF although that's no good out of doors?

[DCB]

Track  bedded in layer of sand and cement. Temporary fix, I just don't have time or materials to hand for the permanent fix.  One track section needed new sleepers, so new sleepers threaded onto the the existing rail.     Rail head gauge corner cleaning  tool  old 13 amp plug earth pin with rod from dead clock threaded in.   Now waiting for it to set, needs vacuuming off....

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

My 2 cents worth;

Pragmatically speaking, wood is the last thing to use in an outdoor environment, even trees rot and die!

Although probably cost prohibitive, powder coated steel or aluminium is the way to go.

Due to the co-efficients of thermal expansion would using plastics be an issue, constructional plastic sheeting is available, but is it practical?

As an off the wall theory, how about shuttering up and constructing a concrete channel and then infilling with epoxy resin?

 

Mike.

[Jol Wilkinson]

If you want to use wood, then Marine grade plywood is the best way to go. However it is expensive and still needs a properly designed support structure i.e. girder style side rails and plain cross bearers. That will make it rigid. Then paint it all with a good wood primer and top coat.

[DCB]

Latest update its not working.   Despite my gauge corner cleaning tool the flanges are hitting  the cement and flinging it onto the rail heads where it gets on the loco tyres and they stop conducting.      I am planning to vacuum off the track bed later so I will see what happens.    Curiously no voltage drop or continuity across the rails across the cement unlike my other battery powered layout from 30  years ago. Odd.

Edited June 26, 2023 by DCB

[DCB]

I vacuumed off the tracks and tried again.  Still issues with pick up but checking the track there still seemed to be cement on the sides of the rails, so I increased the amount of undercut with a  hacksaw cut into the tool.

 A lot more cement dust chipped off and I vacuumed it up again.  This time the test loco, a fairly recent Hornby 2721 pannier not previously used for testing, ran beautifully, and it is not usually a great runner.  So it now looks as if it's ballast sticking to the rails standing proud of the rail chairs which has caused the issue.

Next problem, the cement is crumbling in places and not adhering to the wood... A few pins in the wood and some mortar plasticiser should fix it..