bradfordbuffer Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Ain't evolution great? Photos are red devils. Puts the journey into prospective that why i suppose minority scales are good fun and frustrating all at the same time. Definitely not shake the box and play... 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 (edited) 3 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said: Ain't evolution great? Photos are red devils. Puts the journey into prospective that why i suppose minority scales are good fun and frustrating all at the same time. Definitely not shake the box and play... You know, you're spot on there, at least the first one proved the concept, the rest has basically been refining it....hopefully I have a bit! It'd be so easy to go buy a SLW 24, Heljan 26, 17 etc etc and do the same thing in 4mm, but to put it bluntly I really enjoy building 'stuff' over playing with stuff. I've always enjoyed messing about with non mainstream things that suit me, I don't suppose that my answers to problems will ever suit everyone else but I enjoy it and that's what it is all about. Not having a pop at those who do it differently it's just quite simply horses for courses. Edited March 1 by Red Devil spelling! 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Robert Shrives Posted March 1 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1 As noted very sharp work and progress rapid to a mature prototype state, I would love to see a circuit diagram. The availability of small power cells and micro electronics to end up with dead rails is certainly a way forward for tomorrow. I have been for quite a few years been meddling in gauge one where battery power and RC has been an option for many years but it is all quite big stuff. Thanks for showing this avenue in the smaller scales and look forward to the 37 coming to life. I guess you can now build a little bit of central Scotland, Mossend north, Thornton yard. I would have to look at overlap of 17 and 37 timelines. Millerhill might give overlap with 17s on Waverley route and 37s via ECML and the 24/26 as Scottish staples Railbus could have been seen on Edinburgh Sub routes as well. Robert 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 28 minutes ago, Robert Shrives said: As noted very sharp work and progress rapid to a mature prototype state, I would love to see a circuit diagram. The availability of small power cells and micro electronics to end up with dead rails is certainly a way forward for tomorrow. I have been for quite a few years been meddling in gauge one where battery power and RC has been an option for many years but it is all quite big stuff. Thanks for showing this avenue in the smaller scales and look forward to the 37 coming to life. I guess you can now build a little bit of central Scotland, Mossend north, Thornton yard. I would have to look at overlap of 17 and 37 timelines. Millerhill might give overlap with 17s on Waverley route and 37s via ECML and the 24/26 as Scottish staples Railbus could have been seen on Edinburgh Sub routes as well. Robert I'll sketch out the basic wiring diagram I use for these when I have a few minutes spare..... Layout idea is 'somewhere near Falkirk' 67/68 allows both railbuses plus most of the other stuff with reasonable excuses for them being there. I may start chopping some wood up shortly to give me somewhere to test things out properly. I think the 37 bogie will be very shortly followed by a trailing bogie, I've one minor issue to iron out on it but am pretty certain of how to, so another railbus chassis and move the 37 on are my next pushes.....I may even start to finish a body! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 They are looking good! I am still waiting on gears before I have a go at this. I do have some of the Tenshodo gears... but I think the gear diameter is too small, and my motor will be too low for the middle axle. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 5 hours ago, Blefuscu said: They are looking good! I am still waiting on gears before I have a go at this. I do have some of the Tenshodo gears... but I think the gear diameter is too small, and my motor will be too low for the middle axle. I've played with Tenshodo gears and they're ok but in reality they're only about 14:1 and a bit fast even on 3.7v , they really need another stage of reduction somewhere and that makes the build harder, can be done but it's definitely easier with a direct drive. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 11 hours ago, Red Devil said: I've played with Tenshodo gears and they're ok but in reality they're only about 14:1 and a bit fast even on 3.7v , they really need another stage of reduction somewhere and that makes the build harder, can be done but it's definitely easier with a direct drive. Yes, I just picked them up to have a look. I don't think I'd do anything but look at them! I have a selection of 0.2 Modulus gears on the slow boat from China that I hope will be more suitable. That said, it has just occured to be that I saw some geared versions of the coreless motors. They have a geared stage on the end of the motor. Only a single output shaft though, so perhaps not much use for a co-co bogie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Blefuscu said: Yes, I just picked them up to have a look. I don't think I'd do anything but look at them! I have a selection of 0.2 Modulus gears on the slow boat from China that I hope will be more suitable. That said, it has just occured to be that I saw some geared versions of the coreless motors. They have a geared stage on the end of the motor. Only a single output shaft though, so perhaps not much use for a co-co bogie. The planetary versions? Had a go with them in axle hung type drives, not really man enough for the task, the little gearboxes on the end tend to disintegrate if you're not careful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 7 hours ago, Red Devil said: The planetary versions? Had a go with them in axle hung type drives, not really man enough for the task, the little gearboxes on the end tend to disintegrate if you're not careful. Ah, I did wonder about the quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted March 9 Author Share Posted March 9 (edited) Well the 24 chassis is (virtually) complete, the only thing not currently wired in is the under fuel tank charge point, mainly because I've had an idea on the charging system and need to check something before I do it hence leaving it for the moment. My idea is to use one set of buffers as a positive and negative feed to the battery and it can run up to a set of springy copper buffers in the fiddle yard and charge itself up between runs, that way it keeps it topped up during non running times.... hopefully that will work....No one has written the book on how to do all this yet!!! Anyway receiver bound to transmitter in position 4 and a test run....(two wires sticking up are the charging wires) Edited March 9 by Red Devil 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradfordbuffer Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 1 hour ago, Red Devil said: Well the 24 chassis is (virtually) complete, the only thing not currently wired in is the under fuel charge point, mainly because I've had an idea on the charging system and need to check something before I do it hence leaving it for the moment. My idea is to use one set of buffers as a positive and negative feed to the battery and it can run up to a set of springy copper buffers in the fiddle yard and charge itself up between runs, that way it keeps it topped up during non running times.... hopefully that will work....No one has written the book on how to do all this yet!!! Anyway receiver bound to transmitter in position 4 and a test run....(two wires sticking up are the charging wires) Conductive buffers for charging whatever next? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT100 Diesels Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 18 hours ago, Red Devil said: Well the 24 chassis is (virtually) complete, the only thing not currently wired in is the under fuel tank charge point, mainly because I've had an idea on the charging system and need to check something before I do it hence leaving it for the moment. My idea is to use one set of buffers as a positive and negative feed to the battery and it can run up to a set of springy copper buffers in the fiddle yard and charge itself up between runs, that way it keeps it topped up during non running times.... hopefully that will work....No one has written the book on how to do all this yet!!! Anyway receiver bound to transmitter in position 4 and a test run....(two wires sticking up are the charging wires) You are a genius Red Devil, what a totally off the wall but brilliant idea, bit like battery / emu concept on the big railway, top up on the turnbacks or in your case, fiddle yard. When this is done, you really should do an article for Mixed Traffic, it ticks so many boxes, diesels, 14.2, radio control, active charging....... As I say, brilliant, Cheers D. Edited March 10 by TT100 Diesels Spelling 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Fox 34F Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 19 hours ago, Red Devil said: Well the 24 chassis is (virtually) complete, the only thing not currently wired in is the under fuel tank charge point, mainly because I've had an idea on the charging system and need to check something before I do it hence leaving it for the moment. My idea is to use one set of buffers as a positive and negative feed to the battery and it can run up to a set of springy copper buffers in the fiddle yard and charge itself up between runs, that way it keeps it topped up during non running times.... hopefully that will work....No one has written the book on how to do all this yet!!! Anyway receiver bound to transmitter in position 4 and a test run....(two wires sticking up are the charging wires) It now looks like a RTR chassis, very professional. As for battery charging via the buffers, perfectly feasible, but you just need to be able to isolate the connection when in use. You don’t want a metal wagon kit shorting out the equipment. Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 8 minutes ago, Flying Fox 34F said: It now looks like a RTR chassis, very professional. As for battery charging via the buffers, perfectly feasible, but you just need to be able to isolate the connection when in use. You don’t want a metal wagon kit shorting out the equipment. Paul Yep, it'd be purely a charging point, or points, my idea would be along the lines of a headshunt or two at the end of a traverser board that'd take locos charging. The one good thing as as I'm building from a standing start everything else will have an insulated buffer beam as a fail safe. I doubt there'll be any provision for conventional pickup locos because I'm inherently lazy and won't be doing any track wiring for visiting locos! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 6 hours ago, TT100 Diesels said: You are a genius Red Devil, what a totally off the wall but brilliant idea, bit like battery / emu concept on the big railway, top up on the turnbacks or in your case, fiddle yard. When this is done, you really should do an article for Mixed Traffic, it ticks so many boxes, diesels, 14.2, radio control, active charging....... As I say, brilliant, Cheers D. I'll ask if there'd be any interest in an article, even if it's not taken to its conclusion the mechanism set up may be of interest for conventionally wired layouts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT100 Diesels Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, Red Devil said: I'll ask if there'd be any interest in an article, even if it's not taken to its conclusion the mechanism set up may be of interest for conventionally wired layouts. I would say the mechanisms would be very much of interest, while the rc side of things is more unconventional, however, someone did an article on an rc triang 31 in recent years. I suppose its more about pushing the boundaries of the scale, given the overall society demographic (steam), I am not sure how many folk are interested in my diesel outline modelling articles ? (present company excepted). But John Sutton is always eager to publish the work of great modellers, and as I said up thread, yours is very innovative. I suppose I am just being enthusiastic about your work, but obviously, don't feel obligated to have to write up an article. Cheers D. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 12 minutes ago, TT100 Diesels said: I would say the mechanisms would be very much of interest, while the rc side of things is more unconventional, however, someone did an article on an rc triang 31 in recent years. I suppose its more about pushing the boundaries of the scale, given the overall society demographic (steam), I am not sure how many folk are interested in my diesel outline modelling articles ? (present company excepted). But John Sutton is always eager to publish the work of great modellers, and as I said up thread, yours is very innovative. I suppose I am just being enthusiastic about your work, but obviously, don't feel obligated to have to write up an article. Cheers D. If there's interest, happy to do it....I've done a good few article for both society and monthlies in the past so not averse to sitting down and attempting to make my thoughts legible to others! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 On 09/03/2024 at 22:19, Red Devil said: My idea is to use one set of buffers as a positive and negative feed to the battery and it can run up to a set of springy copper buffers in the fiddle yard and charge itself up between runs I like that idea. You could put a lamp of the buffers for contact/charge status... The chassis is looking really good! I'm still inspired to have a go... but the m0.2 gears arrived and I thing they might be too fine for my working tolerances, and I'm not feeling brave enough to have a go with those. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 54 minutes ago, Blefuscu said: I like that idea. You could put a lamp of the buffers for contact/charge status... The chassis is looking really good! I'm still inspired to have a go... but the m0.2 gears arrived and I thing they might be too fine for my working tolerances, and I'm not feeling brave enough to have a go with those. Any chance of of a pic of those gears? I did find some 0.3 module gears that might fit the job on there, just not got round to ordering any yet! The 20 series Romford gears are quite a fine mesh but it is possible to get them to fit with a bit of trial and error but I think the Tenshodo gears and worms are 0.3 off the top of my head and are definitely easier to mesh. The easiest for me so far have been the Ultrascale gears but it seems that they might be NLA for a while due to Ultrascale having a planned move, I did manage to get a decent order in before the book shut on them but always on the look out for other possibilities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 15 minutes ago, Red Devil said: Any chance of of a pic of those gears? I think I'd be more comfortable with 0.3, but I'm not sure I could realise a low enough gear ratio... which led me thinking about a 3d printed gearbox. I agree, Tenshodo look to be 0.3 and I think the Halling gearsets are too. I did look at Romford and Ultrascale but as you say, i found supply a bit patchy. I have an assortment of 0.3 gears on a wishlist so I should probably just order them. I think I've stemmed the flood of aliexpress marketing emails, and am almost ready to try again. Another avenue, (particularly if ii end up designing a gearbox), is to have the parts cut at jlcpcb who used to do my 3d printing and pcb's. They are also based in China, but are a nice company to deal with. However, they ship with FedEx which is significantly more expensive than speedpak! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted March 15 Author Share Posted March 15 A very brief update.... I checked the actual battery longevity on the 24 chassis and was somewhat out on my guesstimate... Charged it fully and then set it up on full throttle, to be honest I was pretty surprised by the results, it lasted 7 hours 20 mins before it gave up the ghost ready for recharge which then took 2 hours. Overall I'm pretty happy with that, whilst it was under zero load it bodes well for layout operation, I don't think that they'll have much problem doing a full normal day running at an exhibition where they're not really going to ever be running all day, so do I need removeable battery and buffer charging? Probably not but think they will still have it, because I can...... 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Robert Shrives Posted March 15 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15 That sounds a good performance and matches the T22 buses in Porthmadog! Removable battery probably good engineering to make replacement easy. Buffer charging sounds fun but will you end up with a mini contact tazer with potential for unintended discharge. I did wonder if it would mean shinny buffers at point of contact - in reality point of contact is often a dirty greasy area. I guess having pin point contacts on fixed buffer beam would work given the uber small area on modern phone chargers, to cut through any grime. Thanks for showing another innovative way to run model railways. Robert 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted March 15 Author Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, Robert Shrives said: That sounds a good performance and matches the T22 buses in Porthmadog! Removable battery probably good engineering to make replacement easy. Buffer charging sounds fun but will you end up with a mini contact tazer with potential for unintended discharge. I did wonder if it would mean shinny buffers at point of contact - in reality point of contact is often a dirty greasy area. I guess having pin point contacts on fixed buffer beam would work given the uber small area on modern phone chargers, to cut through any grime. Thanks for showing another innovative way to run model railways. Robert I was going to use blackened brass buffers if it all possible, as I say not a necessity now but I think I'll try and see if it's feasible. Main reason is that some will have to have smaller batteries, whilst I could get a 400mah in a Railbus it would be to the detriment of internal space, and I quite fancy doing an 06 which will most definitely have to have a smaller battery. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted March 16 Author Share Posted March 16 So, next up I think let's get stuck into this, I think I've found a 600mah lipo that will fit in nicely....That's a third bigger than in the 24 so should give a good running life, power bogie built and running ok, I'll knock the trailing bogie up next. Not convinced about the nose on this casting but think I've sussed where it's a little bit out.. Tanks will be gutted, or in reality sides used and rest filled with lead then chassis build itself can start. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 Meanwhile, some more mechs roll off the production line .... 25 (on left) for evaluation elsewhere, same as 24. 29 (on right) I have some 8 spoked wheels that I may fit and see how it looks, in reality they should be 11 spoke....not sure if it'll be visible or noticeable.....only problem is I know it's wrong! Also received today are a couple of Tramfabriek 8/16 motors, I was going to try these in the 20 and 17 builds as obviously they're narrower so will allow a better bogie swing in a narrower chassis. They may fit but worm gear is pretty close to motor power tags ..Some more experimentation might be needed if I opt for same Romford gears ....which is questionable on the 17 anyway due to wheel size. Might wait till I have some Ultrascale 30:1s for those 2. I also have the frame part built for the 26 and a 10/20 motor for that too, but not shown. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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