Loksound V5 head & tail lights

[Rusty116]

Hi,
I just fitted a Loksound V5 to my Heljan 52 ( OO gauge ) All works well except the head/tail lights. They both come on at the same time in the direction of travel, with nothing at the rear.
Previously a TCS decoder was fitted with no problem, every thing worked as it should.

Having fitted over 50 decoders, mainly TCS, but Bachmann anf Hornby TTS as well I am fairly familar with CV settings and changes but the Loksound instructions just leave me totally baffled.

1, Is there an idiots guide to understanding the ESU decoder and how to make basic changes ?
2, Any help on how to change the headlight/tail light settings would be much appreciated ?

Regards

Rusty

[Nigelcliffe]

Four ways to change ESU decoder settings. 

 

1)  (expensive), buy a LokProgrammer to help with changes.  

 

2)  (much cheaper), use JMRI, read in the decoder's function map, make changes.  The reading process is slow (possibly an hour), but only need it once for the decoder. 

 

3)  A lot of reading of ESU manuals.  ESU use a 40+ line "map" where anything (the keys used for the line, the sounds controlled,  the function outputs (lights) and decoder behaviour) can be on any of the lines.   

You can make educated guesses as to which line might control the lights, and thus target them, but need to check very carefully before making changes.     

To access CV's in any aspect of function mapping, you need to set the index value for whatever CV you are accessing (CV's 31 and 32), otherwise you'll be changing something else - a variable only makes sense as "index AND CV".     
The indexing extends the number of possible CVs.   Normally there'd be only 1024 possible CV's, but by using Indexing there are millions (1024 indexes  *  1024 CVs).  ESU use a few thousand.  

 

4)  For the specific sound project in question, you have the mapping details from the supplier, so can shortcut the process of which line to change, and thus target the changes actually needed.   

 

 

The change will be simple, but knowing what to change is the difficult bit. 

 

 

- Nigel

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Nigelcliffe

[Rusty116]

Hi Nigel,

Thank you fro the reply,

1 - for the moment I will rule out the Lokprohramer, a lot of money for just 1 change.

2- I did try the JMRI, installing Java 1st, but on opening the program I kept getting Java Launcher exception error, I tried on 2 computers wit the same result.

3- I think my brain was over taxed reading the manual, I don't know if its just the way it is written but I cannot get a grasp of the logic rerquired. I am used to the TCS instructions that are writted very clearly and logically.

May be its the format of the instructions, but I can't even figure out which CV control the AUX1 & AUX 2 lighting.

Regards

Rusty.

 

 

[Nigelcliffe]

Point 2 - chances are its a very simple mistake, such as wrong version of Java installed.   There is an explicit page on the JMRI website about installing the correct version, it matters, Java version 11, not some other newer or older version.   Uninstall any old Java you may have, and install the Azul version as its least hassle:   

https://www.jmri.org/java/

 

 

 

Point 3 - ESU don't really have a single CV which controls AUX1 or any other output.  

There are 72 mapping rows in a V5 (40 in a v4).    Each row can control ANYTHING.    This means its incredibly powerful, but its also very complicated.

 

(Page 70 ESU manual)    Each row consists of:  "Conditions",  "Physical Outputs", "Logic functions" and "Sound Functions". 

 

A Condition is which function keys apply for a given row, plus things like "loco moving", "loco forwards", etc..  

Physical Outputs are the output wires,  Logic Functions are things like half-speed (and many others),  Sound Functions causes sounds to be played.  

 

So, with 72 rows to search, with dozens of CVs on each row, you've got your work cut out to find what is currently controlling a given output without assistance.  

Intelligent guessing can help,  Page 78 shows the default (factory) function mapping setup,  BUT anyone writing a sound project can change absolutely anything if they wish, so its only a starting point.  Many sound producers don't change the defaults, so in with a chance.   Page 78 shows lighting on mapping rows 5 and 6.   

 

Reading row 5 on Page 78, it says F0-key in Forwards, and operates HeadLight output. 

 

Back to page 70, and the pages which follow to find where F0-key fits in the table.... 

Page 72, says Control Group A, for "forwards" and F0-key,  forwards = 4, F0-key=16.  4+16= 20, so that's the value we're seeking to confirm the key is correct(*). 

Page 70, Row 5 and read across, key elements are:  CV32=3, and CV321 for Control Group A.    Write CV31=0, CV32=3, then read CV321, it should be 20,  if it is, bingo, we have one key(*).  If not, only 71 rows to guess....   

 

Page 74, says Control Group K controls the headlight, and is value = 1,  Aux1 would be 4, Aux2 would be 8.  ( The "conf 1" is because you can set two different brightness values or flashing behaviours for the same light output, but not important here). 

Back to Page 70, read across Row 5, and find the important values CV32=8, Control-K is CV321.  Write CV31=0, CV32=8, now read CV321, should be value 1 for headlight.  Change it to be what you'd like it to be (eg. Headlight plus Aux2 would be 8+1=9).  

 

 

Repeat the above with Row 6, adjusting CVs and values as appropriate (assuming the guess work was correct...)

 

 

You can see why making JMRI work which will give a big table of drop-menus for this stuff is worth the effort !

 

 

(* strictly, we're cheating again here, because someone could have added other keys to the conditions on that row in other CV's, such as F0-key AND F19-key, or any other combination, and we haven't looked for those weird combinations.  Hence cheating! ).  

 

 

- Nigel

 

[Rusty116]

Hi Nigel, 

Thank you for the detailed reply, I will try again tomorrow with the installation of have and then jmri.

 

I will also go through your explanation and when the instructions are in front of me and see if I can work out what I need to do.

Regards

Rusty

[charliepetty]

Which LokPilot do you have.

[55020]

Charlie above may be able to help with some specifics, but it would be really helpful if you can tell us which sound project you have installed on the Loksound 5.  The issue probably isn't the decoder, but whoever programmed it, or perhaps last adjusted it.

 

Have you tried a reset, as that may take it back to the settings the project designer intended.  Simply write a value of 8 to CV8.

 

 

Steve

 

 

[charliepetty]

It can be re-programmed for a small fee, thats assuming its not faulty!!!

 

Let us know.    Charlie

[Neils WRX]

I’d suggest getting a Lokprogrammer it’s really easy to change this stuff, to change taillights to come on when the headlights are on or have them off and on a separate button to switch them on.

Thanks

Neil